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April 24, 2011 at
01:08:13 PM
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Glad to see my work brings you guys out of the woodwork! Any suggestions on future builds?
John Stewart
Retro Racing Custom Model Cars
405.922.6163
[email protected]
Oklahoma City, OK
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/235624429834292#!/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/23562442983429
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April 24, 2011 at
01:26:03 PM
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I'm amazed great work.
I remember mine. The wheels came off the wing came off. I might still have the 1 TMC car in pieces. And I thought I was the greatest model builder in the world when I was a kid, LOL.
Warren Vincent
Cans 4 Kansas Heroes
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April 24, 2011 at
02:55:26 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: DGM 7620 on April 24 2011 at 09:56:33 AM
Mike,
I'm not positive but I thought Aaron had the 1st Walker actually built in OKC. It seems like they started out in Aarons shop first and part of the deal was to build him a car. I know there was a story that I heard Jack tell one time about he and Aarons dogs not getting along and that is the reason they moved on out to 29th street. I'll have Jerry Havill go by and ask Jack for an answer to both questions.
I'm 99.9 percent sure that all the design work on the parallel front Walkers was there idea's, yes alot of people had built parallel bar cars but most were rear parallel cars. The cage kick downs that they put on alot of cars was there deal also, all builder's were scrambling around to do something to keep the cages up. When you look at it today it is kinda amazing what racer's were doing with those little 302 motor's in those days. Speeds picked up and the Drag 500 and Marsh Humper came along then they built the big track at Tulsa which flat exceeded any safety margin built in to cars at that time. The chassis were barely able to cope with the speeds at places like OKC, Muskogee Fairgrounds & Devils Bowl when you crashed bad. Then you add on the speed increase at Tulsa and it was like pulling the pin on the grenade and playing with it. People can say what they want but one of the reason's I have so much respect for the driver's of this ERA, when they went out on that track there was an above average chance that they were going to get hurt bad or worse if they crashed bad. Tulsa Big Track was built about 20 years to soon, it was way ahead of the cars but it didn't keep teams from trying to go there and win!!!!!
Aaron's cars were usually white with a red or blue #1, he did have the gold and black #1 in the 60's but generally the were white but when he came along with that Blue & Gold Walker car it was one of the prettiest cars that I had ever seen.
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David/Mike:
I remember hearing a story about the Walker car (the 01) being built in Aaron's shop and something happened between Jack and Aaron and Jack moved and Aaron took the 01 to Doc Grice/Horace to finish. I remember that car well when George Stepens ran it with 6 cylinder. It was an awesome car in July/August on dry slick tracks. I remember George coming to Lawton and the red/sticky clay was a challenge for him. I know when I got my Walker parellel bar front car, the first race I ran with it was at Lanny's labor day show and I ran a drag slick (large) on RF to make it work. I think David mentioned about the large tire on RF also.
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April 24, 2011 at
03:50:13 PM
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377
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Reply to:
Posted By: jimmessmer on April 24 2011 at 10:59:22 AM
When Aaron got the car new in 71' it was pearl white with blue stripes & just about the prettiest car around at that time. I believe he won 1 feature in OKC that year & the NCRA race in Shreveport on the asphalt.
In 72' he changed to the Metallic blue with gold stripes, that was the year he brike his back & Harkness filled in. 72' was also the year he got the other car that was # 01.
73' he was still racing the Walker car, but I'm pretty sure when Larry won the NCRA race at Lawton it was in the Jelly car. Me & Ernie went to the Wichita NCRA with Aaron & Larry that summer & for sure Larry was driving the Jelly car.
David you are right about the tire deal. Would like to see some body these days do 4 feature races on one set of tires. How mant people on here remember hot lapping in May, Scuffing in a new right rear, & stashing it in the trailer to "cure" for the Hutch race in July? Fun times.
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JM,
Thanks for getting my memory straighten out, I do remember that Pearl White & Blue and your right it was a looker, believe it had a 2 duece set-up. Wasn't the Walker car painted Black with a #1 on it when Larry drove it ? I remember the Jelly car that Larry drove, wasn't it Pearl White with Maroon or Root Beer striping? Yes do remember scuffing those tires for Hutch and Enid W/N. Funny story when DJ won Hutch last year it was on a Pair of rears that we had scuffed 4 weeks earlier.
John we came out of hibernation because you built a car that has alot of history at OKC, back in the days when you still did most of the work yourself, I know Aaron had some store bought motors and Walker built the frame but past that they pretty well did everything on there own, I know for fact when Jim & Ernie's dad had it they did 99% of it all including building the motors!!!
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April 24, 2011 at
04:21:03 PM
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407
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Reply to:
Posted By: DGM 7620 on April 24 2011 at 03:50:13 PM
JM,
Thanks for getting my memory straighten out, I do remember that Pearl White & Blue and your right it was a looker, believe it had a 2 duece set-up. Wasn't the Walker car painted Black with a #1 on it when Larry drove it ? I remember the Jelly car that Larry drove, wasn't it Pearl White with Maroon or Root Beer striping? Yes do remember scuffing those tires for Hutch and Enid W/N. Funny story when DJ won Hutch last year it was on a Pair of rears that we had scuffed 4 weeks earlier.
John we came out of hibernation because you built a car that has alot of history at OKC, back in the days when you still did most of the work yourself, I know Aaron had some store bought motors and Walker built the frame but past that they pretty well did everything on there own, I know for fact when Jim & Ernie's dad had it they did 99% of it all including building the motors!!!
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Glad you guys, like it. Planning on bringing it to the next event at Holley's.
John Stewart
Retro Racing Custom Model Cars
405.922.6163
[email protected]
Oklahoma City, OK
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/235624429834292#!/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/23562442983429
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April 24, 2011 at
07:29:33 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: GRC35 on April 24 2011 at 02:55:26 PM
David/Mike:
I remember hearing a story about the Walker car (the 01) being built in Aaron's shop and something happened between Jack and Aaron and Jack moved and Aaron took the 01 to Doc Grice/Horace to finish. I remember that car well when George Stepens ran it with 6 cylinder. It was an awesome car in July/August on dry slick tracks. I remember George coming to Lawton and the red/sticky clay was a challenge for him. I know when I got my Walker parellel bar front car, the first race I ran with it was at Lanny's labor day show and I ran a drag slick (large) on RF to make it work. I think David mentioned about the large tire on RF also.
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Speaking about Lawton, I remember how tacky or I should say muddy the track would be before the races. Even packing the track was an adventure during the late '60's. In 1968-1969 JL Nash and Wayne Cox had those narrow bodied supers and during the hot laps and heat races ran those lightning drags and talk about kicking up rooster tails, those tires really did sling the clay. but they sure worked.
Mike
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April 24, 2011 at
08:48:56 PM
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Aaron Madden model by Mike Monatoboy:
John Stewart
Retro Racing Custom Model Cars
405.922.6163
[email protected]
Oklahoma City, OK
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/235624429834292#!/pages/Retro-
Racing-Custom-Model-Cars/23562442983429
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April 24, 2011 at
09:11:22 PM
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269
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Reply to:
Posted By: jlstew25 on April 24 2011 at 08:48:56 PM
Aaron Madden model by Mike Monatoboy:
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John,
Thank you for posting my model. You have really put a lot of interest with your David Brotherton super model. Just for example like David said in one of his posts the reason he has once again adding his knowledge and stories on this site is because this Brotherton car has a lot of history behind it. I have this bumper sticker that was given to me quite sometime ago by the guys that had that wonderful hobby shop at Crossroads Mall knowing I built models. It has quite powerful message to it. It says, "Plastic Modeling Is Holding History In Your Hands". Even though the real supers that ran during those glory days might not even exist today at least John and my models keep their memory alive. This Aaron Madden model sorry to say don't exist any more due to an accident, but I plan to make it again if I can find the same paint I used.
Mike
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April 26, 2011 at
08:40:20 AM
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This message was edited on
April 26, 2011 at
08:41:30 AM by Aberdumbie
I still say I would pay a more than fair price for a replica of Buddy Cagles cool low slung Pepsi super or Hahn's screaming orange Zink special. Your work is awesome.
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April 26, 2011 at
08:55:08 AM
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269
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Reply to:
Posted By: Aberdumbie on April 26 2011 at 08:40:20 AM
I still say I would pay a more than fair price for a replica of Buddy Cagles cool low slung Pepsi super or Hahn's screaming orange Zink special. Your work is awesome.
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Thank you for your kind complement. I love building models. Been doing it since 1958. I have built and still have in my collection two Zink supers, one is the one Jackie Howerton drove in 1970-1971 and the other Zink model is the one Emmett Hahn drove in 1978. I am proud to say that Mr. Zink had two of my Zink models. Hey John, Aberdumbie has a great thought. How about building the Buddy Cagle Pepsi super from 1972 for your next project.
Mike
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April 26, 2011 at
10:50:27 AM
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Quite welcome. I do believe in credit given where it is due..... And talking about the Cagle car. I will never forget going in the pits as a very young man the first race of that season. When I saw Cagles car for the first time it was like a perfect shiny new penny. I was absolutely awestruck. Of course all the cars were awesome in this young mans eyes... But that Cagle car just had something extra special sitting perfect in the pits at the beginning of that season. I almost hated to see him take it out on the track it was so perfect in my eyes.... Not to mention that Mr. Cagle was quite gracious with this young man that was slobbering all over that beautiful machine.
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April 26, 2011 at
10:55:47 AM
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269
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Reply to:
Posted By: Aberdumbie on April 26 2011 at 10:50:27 AM
Quite welcome. I do believe in credit given where it is due..... And talking about the Cagle car. I will never forget going in the pits as a very young man the first race of that season. When I saw Cagles car for the first time it was like a perfect shiny new penny. I was absolutely awestruck. Of course all the cars were awesome in this young mans eyes... But that Cagle car just had something extra special sitting perfect in the pits at the beginning of that season. I almost hated to see him take it out on the track it was so perfect in my eyes.... Not to mention that Mr. Cagle was quite gracious with this young man that was slobbering all over that beautiful machine.
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Was this the baby blue and white #52 super with Pepsi as the sponsor that Buddy Cagle was driving in 1972? I have one photo of that car sitting in the Tulsa pits during the 1972 NCRA event.
Mike
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April 26, 2011 at
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Yes sir... That would be the one.
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April 26, 2011 at
09:26:42 PM
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377
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Reply to:
Posted By: pokeyokie on April 24 2011 at 09:11:22 PM
John,
Thank you for posting my model. You have really put a lot of interest with your David Brotherton super model. Just for example like David said in one of his posts the reason he has once again adding his knowledge and stories on this site is because this Brotherton car has a lot of history behind it. I have this bumper sticker that was given to me quite sometime ago by the guys that had that wonderful hobby shop at Crossroads Mall knowing I built models. It has quite powerful message to it. It says, "Plastic Modeling Is Holding History In Your Hands". Even though the real supers that ran during those glory days might not even exist today at least John and my models keep their memory alive. This Aaron Madden model sorry to say don't exist any more due to an accident, but I plan to make it again if I can find the same paint I used.
Mike
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Mike/John,
This is one of my favorite Aaron Madden cars, I always liked the little puffs or tear drops after the #1, his early white with red or blue #1 had tear drops. This model looks really sharp Mike, wish you still had it and could bring it to Holly's at the next get together, could put it and John's version out for everybody to look at!! Question for Jim, when your dad got this car did he get any of the Richardson engine stuff?
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April 27, 2011 at
10:46:46 AM
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12/12/2008
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599
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Reply to:
Posted By: DGM 7620 on April 26 2011 at 09:26:42 PM
Mike/John,
This is one of my favorite Aaron Madden cars, I always liked the little puffs or tear drops after the #1, his early white with red or blue #1 had tear drops. This model looks really sharp Mike, wish you still had it and could bring it to Holly's at the next get together, could put it and John's version out for everybody to look at!! Question for Jim, when your dad got this car did he get any of the Richardson engine stuff?
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David I saw a video of Aaron Madden in a red sprint car with a chromed bolt on cage.Wasn't there a problem back then about the tubing after it was chromed lost some of it's strength? Somewhere in the back of my Mind I remember a rule that did not allow chrome in vital parts of the frame. I might just be dreaming but that was the first thing I thought of when I saw the chromed cage.
Ray
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April 27, 2011 at
10:38:47 PM
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7918
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Reply to:
Posted By: Bkcr on April 27 2011 at 10:46:46 AM
David I saw a video of Aaron Madden in a red sprint car with a chromed bolt on cage.Wasn't there a problem back then about the tubing after it was chromed lost some of it's strength? Somewhere in the back of my Mind I remember a rule that did not allow chrome in vital parts of the frame. I might just be dreaming but that was the first thing I thought of when I saw the chromed cage.
Ray
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That rule came in about the mid-70's from what I hear. It had to do with a chemical reaction I think -which somehow reduced the strength of the welds? That rule ended quite a few chrome roll cages.
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April 28, 2011 at
10:18:47 AM
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599
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Reply to:
Posted By: brian26 on April 27 2011 at 10:38:47 PM
That rule came in about the mid-70's from what I hear. It had to do with a chemical reaction I think -which somehow reduced the strength of the welds? That rule ended quite a few chrome roll cages.
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I know nothing about welding but in 1967-68 there was a car that Charlie Randolph ( Charlie's Chicken owner) was driving and they were able to take it apart with a hammer. Apparently the it was stick welded and something was not right and the welds crystallised and all it took to break them was a good hammer lick. I remember Charlie said something to the effect that he was glad that he did not flip the car but he was not that calm. Maybe some of the builders out there could tell us what went wrong on the welds.
Ray
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April 28, 2011 at
08:16:57 PM
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269
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Reply to:
Posted By: Bkcr on April 28 2011 at 10:18:47 AM
I know nothing about welding but in 1967-68 there was a car that Charlie Randolph ( Charlie's Chicken owner) was driving and they were able to take it apart with a hammer. Apparently the it was stick welded and something was not right and the welds crystallised and all it took to break them was a good hammer lick. I remember Charlie said something to the effect that he was glad that he did not flip the car but he was not that calm. Maybe some of the builders out there could tell us what went wrong on the welds.
Ray
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I sure don't know any thing about welding either, but I remember when W.A. Gregory built the car that Wayne Cox won the 1967 Oklahoma City and Nationals and Lawton championships with chrome molly. After the 1968 season W.A. Gregory sold the car to I think Bobby James in Wichita Falls and the car had several drivers, it ran only in Wichita Falls and Lawton during the 1969 season. One night here in Lawton Harold Red Bennett who was driving the car flipped going into turn three. The car came apart at every weld joint and Bennett came out of the car and was lying on the track when Arnold Red Elk ran over him. I thought he was killed but he survived. They say you have to pre-heat chrome molly before you weld it. What happened it had cold joints where the roll cage was welded. I think about Wayne driving that car in Oklahoma City on that big half mile. Makes me wonder what would have happened if Wayne would have flipped it there.
Mike
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April 29, 2011 at
09:16:01 AM
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Mike, Did'nt Sherman French do about the same thing to his car from a flip in 74 going into turn 3 , I remember looking at his car after the races that year and the cage was bent and broke in many places and it sent him to the hospital and wound up OK but I believe it spooked his family and I don't think he ran again ever.I guess that is why I remember that night and the crash.
Not sure if I am correct on this but was'nt Nance the first one to do the continuous tubing on the cage, Non downtube back then, what I mean is one piece of Molly tubing with no cuts or welds in it from front of cage/upper rail up and over the cage to rear torsion tubes, I know Challenger and Gambler back then did not do that till into the mid 80's,I know now days it is the norm to run one piece tubing from the front of torsion bars to what is known today as downtubes and go up over the cage and down to the rear tubes, strength and flex in the design ,plus also easier to mass produce in a jig , just build the side and weld left and right together , like I said Grant King, Tognotti, Maxwell, Walker and Challenger(now J & J) , Gambler,Stanton, Barnett all cut and pieced their cages , although some did have the continuous loop from side to side on the back of the cage on some chassis,Challenger Chassis did as well as my 100" Stanton copy car I had back in 87 which Brian now has was that way.
Not sure of this with Nance,maybe bushwacker or Mr. Grace would know.
J.D.
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April 29, 2011 at
09:36:39 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: jdsprint71 on April 29 2011 at 09:16:01 AM
Mike, Did'nt Sherman French do about the same thing to his car from a flip in 74 going into turn 3 , I remember looking at his car after the races that year and the cage was bent and broke in many places and it sent him to the hospital and wound up OK but I believe it spooked his family and I don't think he ran again ever.I guess that is why I remember that night and the crash.
Not sure if I am correct on this but was'nt Nance the first one to do the continuous tubing on the cage, Non downtube back then, what I mean is one piece of Molly tubing with no cuts or welds in it from front of cage/upper rail up and over the cage to rear torsion tubes, I know Challenger and Gambler back then did not do that till into the mid 80's,I know now days it is the norm to run one piece tubing from the front of torsion bars to what is known today as downtubes and go up over the cage and down to the rear tubes, strength and flex in the design ,plus also easier to mass produce in a jig , just build the side and weld left and right together , like I said Grant King, Tognotti, Maxwell, Walker and Challenger(now J & J) , Gambler,Stanton, Barnett all cut and pieced their cages , although some did have the continuous loop from side to side on the back of the cage on some chassis,Challenger Chassis did as well as my 100" Stanton copy car I had back in 87 which Brian now has was that way.
Not sure of this with Nance,maybe bushwacker or Mr. Grace would know.
J.D.
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JD,
I kind of remember that crash that Sherman French had but I was kind of going to the races during that time off and on. My glory years had already passed. I was at the track when Sherman's brother Thurman was hot lapping his brother's car during intermission and suddenly hit the front stretch guard rail before the flagman' perch and the car just burst into flames and burned Thurman pretty bad. I believe that was the end of Thurman's racing career that night. I found out another one of our drivers has passed away from Lawton. Sad to say that Floyd Teague is no longer with us.
Mike
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