Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

1+1=2

2+2=4

3+3=????

I am so confused can you help a brother out?

 Randy       

       DIRT TRACKIN
"When it's wet slide it in"

Thanks Jannie for the text and telling me that 3&3= Gary Owens. Wow I feel more better now... LOL

 Randy       

       DIRT TRACKIN
"When it's wet slide it in"

in response to OKC's ponderin on why Mark runs other so-called non glorified classes... its called affordable racin for some of those out there who cant afford a sprint car....Mark has always known that if you dont have racing for beginners.. ur not goin to grow the sport... so for as much as you guys who love sprint cars and want to bash Mark for not jumpin on opportunities i would say he's doin fine with how he's running things.... when was the last time u saw 3 Late model shows at SFS? BMS will have 3 shows this year.... as far as the Economy sprints... there was alot of them pre-registered for the season.. and they look like they will put on a good show with a bigger field

I see what you are saying very clearly Allen - but that didn't stop them from hosting the NCRA Late Models.......

I could easily see why they shouldn't try a WoO or ASCS National show lol. And I do think if there was ever a time to invest a little in the place - this was it. But as I said before - I can see where it's not just that simple. I was talkin to Randy (Boggs) last weekend at I-44 about bleachers. At the gym he runs he put some bleachers in there. Nothing really major, but while being necessary - it ended up costing him huge. So yes while I would love to see it - I realize it's not just so easy as throwing them up........

but at the same time..........this did not stop him from running NCRA Late Models. I am not sure of what it costs to run them - but would think OCRS or ASCS Sooner Region shows would be somewhat similar.......and honestly.......seemingly maybe less. But I don't know that for certain. I'm trying to repeat disclaimers because I want to give my honest opinion, but do so reasonably. I realize I'm not in a position to be the most qualified critic on this topic (who is?).

I do realize he cant run huge shows - simply does not have the capacity. But, and I can't seem to make this point too many times, how could you NOT run OCRS or ASCS Sooner but yet they CAN run NCRA Late Models? It all just seems to be more of a choice by the promoter than anything. more of a preference.

Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with a preference to running stock car specials over sprint car specials. I'm not even bashing that - but if this is the case - it should just be stated. Not danced around like "oh we wish we could run more sprint car stuff, BUT..........." as if there is actually something keeping them from running sprint car shows. Why not just avoid dancing around it and come right out and say - HEY WE JUST DON'T GIVE A SHIT TO!!!

Folks can ridicule me all they want and think they are rocket scientists for pointing out that I am not a promoter - BUT - if you can run NCRA Late Models then it's fairly obvious you are CAPABLE of running a regional sprint car series as well . Just like that late model show - get 30 or so cars - fill the place up - make some money. It's completely relative and reasonable.

I don't see how this doesn't paint a clear picture - there is no other reason Mark Brill does not these high quality regional sprint car shows - except he just doesn't care to. If they can run NCRA Late Models - they are more than CAPABLE and it is just as FEASIBLE to run a sprint car show.

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

It seems that all Brills wants to run is his door slammers, modified's and 4or5 cars in a class and that is his business. What I am trying to point out is that all he wants to do with the Sprint Cars is to let them have a place to run and that is about it. Or hell he is making enough with what he is running and he don't care. To us sprint car fans it is hard to understand why because after the news about SFS closing he had a golden opportunity to put his little operation on the map for being a sprint car track and did not. Oh and another point is that he had more fans than what he had expected last week why you ask?

No matter if it is Brill's, Enid, Ada, Creek, or any other track in Oklahoma some one needs to step up and commit there track to being known as a Sprint Car Track. Everybody needs to quit racing in the past and start racing for the future, Sprint Cars has been a premier class in this area for too many years just to say piss on it. Promoters need to loose the attitude I will run them if they show up and pay them like a second rate class. Because to most of us that is the way Brill's looks at the Sprint Car class.

 Randy       

       DIRT TRACKIN
"When it's wet slide it in"

exactly

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

It is nothing against the low budget racer thats not what this is all about.

It's about keeping a class alive that is worth keeping, rather than watching it fade away.

 Randy       

       DIRT TRACKIN
"When it's wet slide it in"

Randy, I think that the class would stay alive no matter where they run. If the rules all stay the same and no one screws with them then there will always be cars. The 2 barrells have been one of the longest running classes around the state. Keep costs down as much as you can and there will be interest. If you let people start putting in bigger and bigger money then you will start seeing a fade away.

They have been in Tulsa the longest. Shoot even before Okc picked them up the class had a good thing going up there. Even with two tracks running against each other for cars.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

What I heard was Brill's is already changing some on the champ sprint rules and it's only the second week. Like being able to run dry sumps even if it is good for the class or not, it is a rule change that makes it different than OCRS rules and other Oklahoma tracks trying to run this class of car.

I am not talking about big huge purses but you can agree the purses needs to be ABOUT what Enid paid last week. 7th place at Enid paid about the same as 2nd place at Brill's. It's not about allot more money is about some more money. The cost to run any car is expensive and you will NOT make any money for doing it. Travelling is expensive no matter what class you run, but the up keep and tire bill on a sprint car versus another class don't compare.

You can add some more money thru your purse that is being paid now( not just to win) and make it look good. Because it keeps your car count strong and driver/owners and fans involved the whole season IMO.

 Randy       

       DIRT TRACKIN
"When it's wet slide it in"

Bril Motor Speedway Rules

ENGINE:
1. Any V-8 cast iron automotive engine block. No aluminum.
2. Maximum displacement 368 CI.
3. Domed pistons not allowed. Flat top pistons or stock type dished pistons only.
4. Any steel rod or crankshaft may be used. No titanium engine parts will be allowed, except valve spring retainers.
5. Camshaft is optional, but NO overhead camshaft.
6. Pan type oil pumps allowed. Dry sump or external pumps are ALOWED.
7. Oil pan style is optional. A one-inch diameter inspection hole in the upper side of pan about oil line and windage tray is recommended. If car is inspected and pan has no inspection hole, pan must be pulled at track.
8. All valves and plug holes must remain in stock location.
9. Automatic cam timing devices are prohibited.
10. Water pumps are limited to stock mount, belt driven type.
11. Brodix spec head or any cast iron cylinder head that is manufactured by the manufacture of engine used. No after market heads such as Dart, etc may be used. Cast iron heads may be ported and polished. Valve angles are to remain as manufactured. NO moving or offsetting of dowels in block or head. Combustion chamber can be reshaped. NO coating of the intake or exhaust runners. Coating of valves and combustion chamber is OK.

OCRS RULES

SECTION VIII. ENGINES

368 Cubic inch maximum displacement. Steel blocks only. Flat top pistons only, (no protrusions above piston face), No internal reciprocating parts made of aluminum or titanium or any thing other than steel. Waterpumps to remain in the stock location and must be belt driven. Wet sump oil systems only, no external oil pumps or tanks of any kind. All competitors engines are subject to inspection by OCRS at any time. No crank trigger ignition systems allowed. Any steel rod or crankshaft may be used. No titanium engine part will be allowed except valve spring retainers. Camshaft is optional. No overhead cams. Gear drive ok.

 Randy       

       DIRT TRACKIN
"When it's wet slide it in"

the only reason.mark is allowing dry sump systems,.is for the guys that had super sprints. so they could put a 2b carb on and have a place to race.

All the dry sump rule will do is increase car count(maybe). It isn't going to cost guys more. It will keep someone with a dry sump from running any other track or ocrs because they are illegal. Trust me, some of the top ocrs guys could run with the supers most of the time anyway. Wet sump or dry sump. Now some of the guys with super motors can just change intakes and go race instead of having to change oiling systems also.

Hello to all.... I just took a little time to read over this form and there are a lot of good things said.... There are only a few ways to help the 2 barrel sprints this day in age one is get tire cost down every tire brand offers a hard left and right rear tire but even the OCRS hasn't added this rule for the most part because all the unlimited money teams don't want a tire rule change for the reason of what better advantage does a 2 barrel sprint car have than to be able to bolt on new tires every time you hit the track..... As for Enid i like the race track but after going there over the last 5 years the track takes rubber 90% of the time what does this mean for sprint cars MONEY and lots of it one spec right rear tire for OCRS is 189.00 any left rear at least 150.00 right front 130.00 ok with this in mine last year at Enid OCRS sprint cars burned up a set of tires in the heat races ok that was only 8 to 10 laps so if you add up what it takes just in tires to run there the purse will never get that high. Ok to my 2nd way to help The tracks have to start watering the race tracks last year and the rear before over 60% of the races tracks OCRS went to was throwing dust before hot laps and what Happ. when a track is dry when the sprints get on it the rubber is lay-ed down and eats tires... 2 sets of tires tracks for last years OCRS ....ADA, ENID, OUTLAW,MIDAMERICA, POCOLA, and some of these tracks were raced at 2 to 6 times... Case in point OCRS has a hard tire you can use if wanted that tire came out last year at Enid on a rubber down race track the tire lasted all night for the ones that used it there was still tire left even but in the heats all the money is no object teams ran soft tires and well its like comp apples to oranges.... This would not be a factor if there was only a hard tire bc everyone would have to run the same tire.... This also goes for left rears and fronts they make hard tires that will last and last in exp the RC3..RR and D15-20 LR or fronts...Iv ran these at BMS and ADA 2 years ago 8 times weather dusty or heavy the tires still has over half tread on it now... THE POINT IS RACING HAS BEEN TAKEN OUT OF THE DRIVERS HANDS AND PUT INTO THERE POCKET BOOK THE MORE MORE YOU SPEND THE FASTER YOU GO AND SOME OF THIS CAN BE STOPPED BY CHANGING THE BIG EXPENSES LIKE TIRES AND TITANIUM / CROMEMOLLY PARTS AND BREAKS....WILL THIS EVER BE DONE NOT AS LONG AS THE TEAMS WITH UNLIMITED MONEY IS MAKING THE RULES FOR THE LOW BUDGET RACER.......

Your last sentence hit the nail on the head. Good reply with allot of good points as well, YOU should know if you are running this type of car. I just wish other drivers/owners would add their 2cents as well on this subject Thanks...

 Randy       

       DIRT TRACKIN
"When it's wet slide it in"

Good point David it does help the Old Super drivers and on that side of it I agree. But it freeks some drivers/owners out when they change the rules for no matter what the reason in the second week running.

 Randy       

       DIRT TRACKIN
"When it's wet slide it in"

Ok sprint cars per a conversation with Mark yesterday at the track long before the races even started, he said that if you sprinter's would come out and race and show a weekly support of their effort that he would have no problem paying more as long as you all show up and race there more, this could become something very good for you all and the fans too, so why not give Mark & BMS a chance, to have alot of good Sprint Car Racing.

Danny Waller Jr.
Pro/Street Stock #1J
2006-2007-2009-2010-2011-2012 6 Time BMS Pro/Street Stock 
Champion
4 Time BMS Fall Nationals Champion
2 Time BMS Spring Nationals Champion
Driver: Johnny Reed Jr.

ttt

Danny Waller Jr.
Pro/Street Stock #1J
2006-2007-2009-2010-2011-2012 6 Time BMS Pro/Street Stock 
Champion
4 Time BMS Fall Nationals Champion
2 Time BMS Spring Nationals Champion
Driver: Johnny Reed Jr.

Again with all due respect to you Mr. Waller........

I'm still calling bullshit on that. It just doesn't make any sense for Mark Brill to continuously wander about what sort of support he will get for sprint car racing at his track. Mark Brill played witness to it firsthand every friday night for the last SEVERAL years.

All this speculation seems more like stalling. not to speculate why - I'm just EVERYONE has seen what sort of support sprint car racing has in this area - and HAS HAD for decades! Wandering what his turnout would be if he actually stepped up and kicked it up a notch in his presentation of sprint car racing...........honestly seems rather detached from reality.

He played witness every friday night in his own racing endeavors in the pro stock class at State Fair Speedway. A substantial majority of the fans were there for the sprint cars. And that fact isn't even up for debate. No offense to pro stock folks or mod folks - I enjoyed watching them as well, as many did. But it was always very obvious where the majority of the anticipation and interest was. So with this in mind - and knowing that the vast majority of that fan base is within a 90 minute drive from his track.......fan support would not be much of a problem.

2nd reason - there is no shortage of sprint cars in the area. ESPECIALLY CONSIDERING HE IS THE ONE TRACK THAT SITS IN A PERFECT LOCATION TO PICK UP SUBSTANTIAL SUPPORT FROM BOTH OF THE EPICENTERS OF SPRINT CARS IN THIS STATE. Brill Motor Speedway sits rather perfectly the same reasonable distance from both OKC metro areas - and the Tulsa metro area. So really he has it much better than.......say.......either SFS or CCS ever did. If he pulled the majority of OKC metro sprinters - and plucked a few from the Tulsa area (which almost indefinitely he would - not all tulsa cars will run near 30 OCRS shows) - to go along with the few that have been regs at BMS - he would be have an extremely stout field.

This is all extremely reasonable logic. Not wild assumptions and wishes. This is just the REALITY. And I'm talkin weekly champ sprint racing - don't even get me started on sprint car specials. It's a cold, hard, FACT - the fan support for sprint car racing is all around him. All right there for the taking. Not only would he pull the mass of sprint car fans from the OKC metro area for a sprint car special - it's worth mentioning he would also get support from the tulsa area. Think about it. If OCRS is running all over creation - many tulsa sprints will too - not all - but many. So with just a little bit of thought put into planning the right date - an ASCS Sooner region show would be as good as gold. Do it when the National Tour isn't running anywhere - that way you pick up the half dozen or so OK area guys that follow that tour (for example Danny Wood, Matt Covington, Dustin Morgan, Brady Bacon, Sean McClelland). In fact, it's within reason that maybe even a few regional pilots would show as well - maybe some Lone Star/Texas drivers. It's not a sure thing - but the first ASCS race at BMS could turn a few heads. And even without great regional turnout - still looking at a stout field of probably 4 heats, a B Main, and an excellent A Feature. I wouldn;t say for sure - but I think you could look at Creek car count this weekend and add about 8 or so to it (remember - National Tour guys will be running the Rock n Roll 50 at West Memphis, Arkansas).

I mean this with all respect, but I think the logic is completely backwards. If indeed promoting dirt track racing is like a business (AND IT IS) - then the logic behind what Mark Brill told you is indeed COMPLETELY backwards. You don't tell people to show up en masse and then MAYBE you will deliver a quality product!!! You deliver the quality product FIRST and promote it to get the fans in the stands!!!! And he doesn't even have to spend much money promoting it. Sure some radio/newspaper stuff is always benefecial - but if he cant do it - he cant do it. understandable. But if he cant do it - you get your ass to work Darin Short style!!! You get the word out - to all you know and have them pass it along - and most importantly - you post it repeatedly - over and over and over again - in places just like this. The reality of what has happened to the state of sprint car racing in the state is completely in Mark Brill's favor - whether on a weekly basis - or specials. To wander whether or not the support is there is just........wow! many things I could say there, but will opt to stay respectful in my criticism.

I could really understand why Mark Brill might not want to take a giant leap with his weekly champ sprint racing. To pay more than what any track in the state does may not make financial sense to him. I would understand that. But I cannot for the life of me understand why he doesn't run a special or 2. I;ve pointed out all the obvious reasons in previous posts on this thread though. I'm under a thick impression (think most should be by now) he just doesn't care to - that it's not what he is personally interested in. Because he damn sure wouldn;t make less money than he did with the NCRA Late Model show. I'm confident that an ASCS regional purse isn't THAT much more than the purse he paid them (in fact - I would argue it might be less).

But back to what Mark Brill told you - it does seem backwards. If Mark Brill wants quality sprint car racing - then Mark Brill needs to make that happen. If he is interested in keeping and further developing substantial crowds........he'll have to do something. Because 7 classes with 4 of those drifting around single digits and the other 3 hovering just above that is NOT likely to get that done..........

although the specials he is running will help - there is a type of racing there at BMS that is missing one.........oh and it just happens to be the most popular.

As a fan of QUALITY open wheel racing - I don't care to be fed crumbs. And that is exactly what Brill Motor Speedway is throwing out there. Sure - maybe they could avg around the same as Enid or Lawton. But how ya get there matters..........it's the fact of KNOWING that BMS could do a lot more and basically makes the decision not to (with both weekly sprint car racing and even more so with the stunning decision to NOT run any profitable sprint specials). As a fan its something of an insult. I could travel double even triple the distance and the same proportion in money where not only is my admission ticket valued and appreciated ...........but REWARDED as well in the form of a quality open wheel show. And its worth it do that. I've been a fan of open wheel racing all of my life. and of SFS too. I won't attend BMS as if there is just nothing else to do. Sure there are many who will go and watch features that look very much like SFS hot lap sessions (or smaller), but I sure as shit won't. I'm interested in quality open wheel racing. And if I don't have the means or whatever to go the distance required to see it - I won't settle for low quality just because its closest.

It isn't the sprint car drivers and fans that need to give Mark Brill a chance.....its the other way around........Mark Brill needs to give sprint car drivers and fans a chance!

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

Cody, not to comment on your post as a whole but Brill did host a 1000 dollor to win 2 barrel race a few years ago. Eddie Guinn won it after he flipped and Passmore ran second.

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands 
in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he 
stands at times of challenge and controversy." 
Martin Luther King, Jr. 

Erich Petersen 

Well put Cody. Sometimes it takes an essay that turns into a novel to get the true and complete point across. It's ALMOST like training a animal you have to give them a treat to come, or they will look at you like your stupid or they will not come at all.

 Randy       

       DIRT TRACKIN
"When it's wet slide it in"