Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I am a huge WoO supporter and have been for several years (my posts are always postive on here) ...........but this year I have been very frustrated with all the front row winners.  The entire racing program is a winner from the front row (heats, dash, LCR, A main).  As a fan, it's frustrating to buy a $30 to $50 ticket (x 4 with family), spend gas & food money to watch follow the leader racing for 3 hours.  I hope the WoO can figure something out as the paying fans will not continue to watch follow the leader racing. 

I don't want to hear the ASCS is better either.  For the 2014 season, the National tour has had 7 of 9 races won from the front row.  The two winners that were not front row started 3rd.  The heats were not much better with a majority of them being front row winners.

This is not a WoO problem but a wing sprint car problem.  There has to be something we can do to improve the racing.

Your data is incomplete.  Before I rush to judge, I'd like to see the average starting position of the 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th place finishers.  I think maybe you'd see a different picture.

Exactly. Just because the winner comes from the front row does not always mean there is no racing going on. Sometimes you'll see an incredible race for 12th, and there's nothing wrong with that. It'd be nice to see someone come from 10th to win, but it doesn't always work that way. The problem is, these guys are the best in the world at what they do.

Beleive me, I am a huge WoO fan and have been for years but here are the facts from the past 11 WoO races (ASCS is very similar).  Very little passing in the heats or A main.  I am not counting the battle for 14th place in the A main.

Finishing postion / Starting position:

• 1/1,  2/2,  3/3  (Orange County)
• 1/1, 2/2, 3/4
• 1/1, 2/2, 3/3
• 1/1, 2/3, 3/5
• 1/4, 2/1, 3/11
• 1/1, 2/2, 3/3
• 1/1, 2/4, 3/2
• 1/1, 2/2, 3/7
• 1/1, 2/3, 3/6
• 1/1, 2/4, 3/3
• 1/1, 2/6, 3/4 (Sedalia)

Hoosier Daddy

I don't know about that. When is the last time you sat around with your friends saying" wow do you remember back when Joe Schmoe and Bob Schmuckatelli battled it out for 12th at the Woo show 5 years ago, that was epic!" ?

 
I LEARNED ESP FROM MY MOM

"PUT YOUR SWEATER ON: DON'T YOU THINK I KNOW WHEN 
YOU'RE COLD?"

This is an equal equipment and equal driver issue. You start any of these guys on the front, they will be tough to beat. 

Knoxville has the winner starting an average of 3.6 in 5 races. That is with Brown skewing the numbers this past week. Before that the average was 2.5 starting spot. 

And even with that number, I haven't seen anyone complaining about the quality of racing.

I'm hearing the same thing from some of the crews members and drivers. One crew member recently told me they are seeing left rear tires shrink during races and it is impacting the stagger of the car and the driver is having difficulty getting it turned.

A couple drivers say the tire combo they have now has further taken the motor and the driver out of the equation. One Knoxville regular removed the gas shocks they've run for years in favor of steel bar shocks they ran over 20 years ago. Drivers voiced some frustration an basicaly said they think the racing is bad.

Not picking on Hoosier as they are just doing what they are asked from a compound perspective. It's interesting Goodyear got the wrap for being inferior quality and blowing out. Hooiser right now is getting the wrap of inconsistent performance and poor racing. It's an interesting time for sprint car racers and fans.

Get rid of the single manufacturer tire rule! 

It's still early in the season - tracks tend to be heavier because the temps aren't as warm. See what the average starting position is for A main winners in August.

I'd like to see the Outlaws tweek the format a bit so starting positions aren't solely based on time trials but also on how you race in the heats. Most drivers seem content when they get to a transfer spot because there's nothing to "earn" unless you win the heat to get into the Dash. When asked about giving points for time trials, Saldana said they should look into giving points for every time you're on the track. That's the Nationals format and the format at Trophy Cup - any coincidence that those are usually the best races of the year?

= Tires

=Motors

=Chassis

= Bad Racing

IMO, they should open the tire rule back up and let the 3 (Goodyear, Hoosier, American Racer) have at.  I can remember nights at Outlaw and All Star shows where the winner would easily come from 3rd or 4th row and there was always a guy making a charge from the last couple of rows to the top 5.

DA

WoO should race the water trucks...they aren't allowed to have water in them anyway

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

With passing being so difficult, they should do away with the silly inverts. If a guy is gonna win without passing a car in his heat or feature, it should at least be the guy that timed the best, not the guy who timed 16th. Start the heats heads up from time and take the top 2 to the dash.

A

I was at orange county and and it was follow the leader racing . When my buddies and myself walked in to check out the track it looked like they didn't even water the track . After hot laps the track was slick and dry . They need to do something to improve the racing but I don't know what . I used to not like wingless racing but I'll tell you what I live in New jersey and I also like midgets we have the ARDC midgets they took the wings off of the midgets a few years ago . And I was not happy but guess what the racing is way better without the wings . Then the USAC sprints came to the east coast and talk about great racing . Don't get me wrong I still like the wings but I'm really getting into wingless . It's the same thing at Williams Grove little passing and follow the leader . Don't get me wrong I still go to the races when ever I can as I love being at the track . But the racing needs to improve or fans will start staying home . And please stop with the greatest show on dirt stuff outlaws . How can they be that when if you start on the pole you win ? And this is not about the outlaws vs the posse stuff as some of you may think with me on the east coast .I'm just a race fan 

Exactly!!!

I go to the Grove every Friday except last year because i lived out of the state. The only show I got to last year was the WOO show in May where Schatz won from 12 (?) so i didnt think the racing was bad. Being back and going every week I can tell a big difference in the racing.

On goodyears guys would win from row 4 and back a lot. The racing as a whole was better through the field.

Most of the complaints in PA were coming from 358 teams who couldn't buy used tires from the 410 teams when the 410s were running Goodyears.

But yeah, I definitely feel like the racing was better (even though Fred never quite got the hang of them).

I don't know of any winged tracks that have more passing when heavy vs slick which is why more passing takes place in features not heats. It's a tough balance because once the track is slick for long it lays rubber.

 That to me is the real problem. How hard can it be to make a tire compound that won't transfer rubber to the track?

OCRS starting positons for top 3 finishers in main events through six events.......

Winner: 3, 10, 1, 4, 2, 7
Runner-up: 7,11,3,10,6,10
Third place: 5,5,2,12,10,3

Using the passing points system, the top 12 point earners in heat races are 'locked in' to the main event. Balance to B-Main

Of those 12, the driver with the HIGHEST 'feature average' from past 'features' they competed in starts no better than 12th. Second highest feature average driver starts 11th an so on.

B-Main winner can only start 13th with balance of  B-Main transfers lining up for A-Main in order of B-Main finish.

Hard Charger pays $100 cash regardless where you started.

A system like that would work at a lot of local tracks because of the diversity of equipment/drivers you're going to see. The cream will usually find a way to rise through. 

With the WoO (and to a lesser extent ASCS) I'd say a format like this wouldn't fly because of the equality of drivers/equipment. 

will someone tell me how having the left rear tire shrink makes it difficult to get the car turned.

to indy and beyond!!