Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Where does Kyle right now rank among the greatest dirt track racers of all time?

Brandon McLain
United Sprint Car Series Driver
2014 Season
National Rookie of the Year!
National Points - 8th
Southern Points - 3rd
Asphalt Points - 3rd
18 Races, 3 Top 5's, 14 Top 10's

Hard to say at this point in his career, but if he keeps it up, one of the best ever...

Probably right up there with Donny, much better than Sammy for sure.   Donny probably the greatest.  Kinser right up there with him.   Larson next, followed by Wolfgang, then maybe Sammy.   

I don't think we can really give an accurate assessment of Larson's career compared to the other greats until his career is finished.  What we can do is look at his talent now and perhaps say that he is now one of if not the greatest racing talent competing today.  To say otherwise is to disrepect the other great drivers in the All-Star, WoO, USAC ranks.    What he is doing is ridiculous

All time?  Winged, non winged, 410, 360 or all of the above?  

Winged 410 Schatz Kinser Wolfgang Sammy 

Winged 360 Gary Wright, Jason Johnson, Gary Lee Maier(sp) 

Non Winged Dean Thompson, Bubby Jones, Clauson, Foyt, Hinnerschitz(SP)

Seems like alot of years to cover but dont think you can have a all time best without drivers from cageless era...Foyt and Hinnerschitz(once again spelling) were reallly good.  

Winged 410, which is what alot of people who are sprint car fans know, Schatz and KInser above everyone else.  Sammy, Wolfgang and Mark KInser next tier.  IMO Kyle is really fn good but he doesnt have the time in winged 410s.  

It's difficult to compare the different eras because the cars have changed so much.  I started going around 1960 and laps weren in the low 20's on a half mile.  The track records by year are easily searchable and would tell the story better than I can.  Drivers were of bigger stature and the look and feel of the racing was way different than today's rocket ships.  Even looking at clips of the Outlaws on familiar tracks from the 80's they are visibly slower.  Today we have light cars with light weight drivers who have an amazing ability to drive these machines.  There are dozens of Hall of Fame drivers from years gone by who never turned a lap as fast as today's 305's in their entire careers.  The tracks are still dirt ovals and the cars still have the same basic design but everything is so much faster today.  I would beg off from trying to compare drivers from the different eras.

As far as Kyle Larson goes, there has never been anyone like him the way he can adapt between winged, non-wing, Midgets and even NASCAR Stock Cars.  Few can make the claim of having raced and won in all those different types of cars and racing.  I've got Flo and Dirtvision and have seen every one of his recent All Star, WoO and Midget wins.  He sure gained my respect as I haven't really watched him much on dirt.

Stan Meissner

Let's slow the boat here - Larson is unreal, but he needs some kind of longevity aspect. What does he have for Crown Jewel wins? A Chili Bowl, A Four-Crown sweep, anything else I'm missing? What he's doing now is unreal, and with how he races, you can't really use championships as a measuring stick, but he's going to need a lot more wins over a lot longer period to say he's say he's in that top echelon IMO. 

He's a fantastic talent and the most versatile dirt driver in the world right now, and obviously on an insane hot streak, but he's got more work to do before I'll put him in consideration for GOAT status.

Exactly said. He's driving the wheels off of any race car he climbs into and is undefeated for the last few weeks. But, he is still not as accomplished as his wife's brother (at least on dirt anyway). Kyle's been fun to watch on the computer lately!

ditto the last 2 posts!  I may add alot more work like years worth to be mentioned anywhere in the realm of goat status!! 

Didn't he also win the K&N Championship ?

Actually, my post was more intended to provoke the legion of rabid Sammy fans on here but they didn't take the bait.   You guys took the bait instead, but that's no fun because I actually agree with you.   Larson has much more to accomplish before he's anywhere near Schatz or Kinser.   

He's in the top 10.  If this continues, in the top 5 in the next couple of years.  Can he be best of all time?  Yes!  Might take 10 years to prove it, but he may get there!

And KWS 410 champion in 2012 or 13

  From central coast of Cali.
   Peace, Out.

To be fair you would also have to take in to account that his NASCAR Years took away from his Dirt track Driving.  So I think the fair question is where would he be ranked if he didnt go to NASCAR.  He wants a WOO Championship he told Gannassi he want that before he is 40 years old.  He wont get it this season because he has missed a few races.  He is the truest "OUTLAW" in this day and age because he is racing where he wants to race and he has Beaten the best this Country has to offer in the WOO, The All Stars and now USAC.  He is in the top 15 in points with the 410 in WOO And All Stars and isnt running either Club Full Time.  That in and of itself is very telling on how very good Larson is.  IMO He is the BEST Driver in the US at this time.  If he keep it up he will win the WOO championship if he comits to it his 1st time actually running full time with WOO the same can be said with the All Stars.  It hard to say where he ranks all time because he drives so many different type cars. With that said it anybodys guess.  I would put him in the top 5 all time right now but its all speculation and argumentitive So lets just leave it at know one really knows

as of today... Kyle Larson does not even make the list....       its simply to soon for that...  we all see that talent, we all wish he could stay on dirt.  But you got to wait for a career to unfold to even begin to have those conversations.  In all sports there are players (or drivers) who win or lose, are just exciting and fun to watch..   He is one, wish there were more, but "special" is not special if its available all the time.....

Winged sprint car. Kinser, is and always will be, the king. RW made DS, period, end of story.

Non-wing. Nobody gives this guy the accolades . Jack Hewitt, guy was born in the wrong decade, he would have fought with Foyt, the Unser brothers and Andretti. 

Schatz' and Kinder will need a few more Midget, non-wing and NASCAR wins before they can compare to Larson.  I'm by no means a Larson cheerleader, never actually seen him race except in TV, but he is on a different level more comparable to Stewart or Foyt.  My point when they s subject comes up is the vast difference in the speed, handling,.even the stature of the drivers.  I saw the non-wing cageless card of the sixties all the way up to today and I'll stick by my story that the cars we have today are insane compared to what they raced years ago.  Drivers back in the day were 6' talk with big arms and crew cuts, often war veterans.  Today the preferred driver is flyweight, has lightning reflexes, and has to be able to communicate well with sponsors and fans.  The sport has changed a lot.

Stan Meissner

It's such a tough question.  Greatest of all time.  Kinser is the best winged-410 sprint car driver of all time.  Yes, I know, he won a lot of wingless races.  But, he's known for dominating the World of Outlaws.  Outside of that, I believe he had an IROC win.   Schatz, known for dominating the World of Outlaws.  Couple of late-model wins against local talent---not against Lucas Oil or Outlaw late-models.  B-main caliber at Chili Bowl.  

When I think of greatest drivers of all time, I think of guys like Tony, Foyt, Mario.....even Gordon.  To me, Sammy was more versatile than Donny or Kinser were/are.  All of these make the "greatest of all time" a tough argument.........but it's a good one.  

To me, he's on track to be on the Mt. Rushmore of greatest race car drivers of all time.  I know a lot can change over the next 10 years, so we'll see.  What makes Kyle so unique is his ability to compete in ANYTHING.  Clauson jumped into an Indy car and was not a factor.  Sammy jumped in an Indy car and Nascar trucks, but was really never much of a factor.  Kyle jumped into a pavement late model---and won--night 1 and night 2.  Kyle jumps into Nascar and wins in every single level by the age of 23!!!!   Everyone claims he has not had success in Nascar, but he's won 20 races in all three series.  Let's say Kyle doesn't have the slip of the tongue and ends up in the 14 car for 2021.  More wins would have come.  He was winning in spite of the 42 car he was driving.  I firmly believe if Chip were to have put him in an Indy car for the 500, he would be a factor the first year.  I firmly believe if he were given a late-model to drive, he would be a threat the first race he was in.  His ability to adapt from car to car is unsurpassed. 

So, for me, he doesn't have to win multiple Nationals or Royals.  He doesn't have to win a WoO championship.  He doesn't have to win the Daytona 500.  He doesn't have to win the Indy 500.  If he has a career of hopping around the country being a threat to win night in and night out, and getting those wins on the pace he is now, he will be the greatest driver of all time-----in my book.  Because, greatest driver of all time is based on opinion and perspective.  

I like the post and the question Dryslick.  It brings good conversation whether we all agree or not!

I second egras' point.  Versatility is the most impressive aspect of Larson's success.  There have been some great winged 410 drivers but most have struggled in other disciplines.  Then there is my point about the cars being such a different beast than those of the 60's, 70's, 80's, etc.  These cars today are like lightning in a bottle with the tracks barely able to contain them.  That is a much different kind of racing than my childhood heroes of the early 60's were accustomed to.  It's an apples and oranges kind of comparison and makes it tough to compare drivers from the different eras.  

Stan Meissner

Larson's pretty good . . . .for an unemployed nascrap racer.