Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

No sport on tv is as good as in person.  But since I can not travel coast to coast to see every race I want to, seeing them on tv would be the next best thing. Sorry your attention span is so short you need non stop action or you lose interest. Kinda like a 5 year old.

Well apparently most fans have rather short attention spans, because if anyone would watch sprint car racing on TV they would show a bunch more of it wouldn't they?   

I may have misinterpreted your statement, but I'm of the impression you're saying not enough people are interested enough in TV broadcasts of sprint car races to actually tune in. Therefore, TV broadcasting sprint car races fails to succeed. Actually I don't think that's the reason at all. I think it has more to do with the fact that to broadcast sprint car racing on network or cable, the broadcasts must fall on a Friday or Saturday night, because that's when the races are run. That's the problem! Where the hell are all the fans? At their local race tracks all over the country enjoying live racing. Not enough of those fans are going to stay home to watch a race on TV.  No one, broadcasters or promotors, will take the risk of setting up a travelling TV schedule of dirt track races that would be run on a Wednesday or Thursday night when the dirt track fans are at home with no local racing to enjoy. But that's when they would tune in. I gotta believe if a special mid-week race was scheduled for TV at a track like Williams Grove, Knoxville, Eldora or a large number of other tracks, there would be a large viewership. Thursday Night Thunder was the last attempt, if I'm not mistaken. That was semi successful. Had that been a dirt track experience, it may have been more popular. But that's just speculation on my part. Grass roots racing is a weekend sport like all racing. The vast number of potential viewers just aren't at home. That's why TV doesn't happen. But....TV could inject new life and new sponsors in to sprint car racing.

The reason Sprint car racing does not work on TV has little to do with what day of the week or what time it's on. The reason it does not work is because the Sprint car fan base is a very very small segment of our total population. In other words, even if every Sprintcar fan in the United States tuned into a race on TV, it's still not enough viewers to get sponsors to support it. Lets say abc tool company is looking to buy some commercial time on TV, they want their commercial to be seen by the most viewers every time its on TV. They are going to choose to support a sport that gets them maximum exposure, at this point in time Sprints do not pull a large enough audience to entice abc tool company to buy commercial time so they go elsewhere.  This is how it's always been and if we are all lucky, this is how it will remain.  This is why PPV does well in Sprintcar racing, we might not have the most fans, but we have the most passionate fans, so if your on the east coast and you want to see a race on the west coast, we will buy the race on PPV, no sponsors necessary , the fans sponsor the race coverage buy purchasing the PPV.

You are right...however there is another layer to this....because you would think in an era with hundreds of channels, it would be easier to get racing on the air because its total audience is actually higher than some of the other dreck that ends up on some of the other cable channels.   That layer is cost.  Reality shows and things of that nature cost pennies to film and broadcast....while a racing event could probably bring in a comparable audience and advertising dollars to much of what is on TV, live racing is also comparatively inordinately expensive to film live and produce in a professional manner.  The problem with sports on TV is that it is only really ever effective live.  Dirt track racing is not made for live TV and live remote TV filming, especially in remote locations, plus satelite feeds etc. are just not worth it for sports networks.  Many of the other marginally popular sporting events that make onto TV end up buying their airtime and financing their own coverage, dirt racing just doesn't generate the revenue to make that worthwhile.

I'm sure you guys are familiar with www.thecushion.com , for a very reasonable monthly subscription, you get to see most of the WoO, Allstars, KWS, NSL, Knoxville weekly, including all of the nationals and many other bug events throughout the season, they also cover the STN and other big 360 events. You don't see them live but usually within 24 hours of the race. The best part is they only show the top 3 time trialers, heat races, c,b,a mains, all edited together so you miss all the BS you don't want to see like , cleaning up accident scenes, pushing off, crappy support divisions and yellow flag laps,. They take a 5 hour show and edit down to about 30 mins or longer depending on qualifying races. You get all the action and no filler, best $10 a month I have ever spent. I live on the east coast and have really become a fan of the KWS series and their drivers and tracks, that Carson Macedo kid is a special talent, Becker,Foresburg, Walker, Croft, Netto and many more make it a hell of a series. Same with NSL, I have seen divers I have only read about racing and seen tracks I would have never seen. Best bargain on the Internet for racing. And no I don't know anyone or have anything to gain by promoting the cushion, I just really like it.

+1????

I was in e grove back pit as the top three cars were being weighed after the infamous Allstar Broken Scales Weekend of the Posse Swing.

Donnie Kreitz' tank was DQd and his check was handed to Lance, who stated in VL that DK was robbed...in the course of things...the Wold Child was given multiple opportnities to weigh and reweigh the car as he failed weight at least twice while we were standing there.

We walked to the DK pit to find DKs wife chewing out Alan Kreitzer after chewing out the Allstars Officials who were walking to their cars at a brisk pace as Lance was tearing them up and down on the microphone. 

If my memory serves, the Black 21 was also DQd but I do not remember if he finished 2nd or behind Lance because Jerry Parrish was next in line to chew out Kreitzer as both screwed local teams were demanding the track get out their scales and weight e cars that remained untouched by the crews during the protest.

Jerry refused to allow his team to do ANY maintenance on the car and had the rig first in line at Lincoln the next night to REWEIGH HIS CAR that was DQd before the team thrashed to get ready for the night.

This was a few years back, but the night lived in infamy for a few years until the mantra of "they never win here anyway" returned as he prime talking point.

Was this cheating? Two teams were cheated out of their winnings...call it what you want but being beaten by a misapprriation of the rules is worse than running second to a cheater and at least getting pad for 2nd IMO.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

?? Easy big fella, wrong thread!

please repost on the right thread because I'd love to pick this apart.

I'm telling you...limit your thinking to the brand if you want...shit happens and i have been in attendance of high profile WoO races where Kinser called out the officiating (kings Royal ruling on Schatz TT / covered on TV) , Sammy getting screwed around at Bristol and getting his revenge with a win... Hodnett getting boned after winning the night before the KR in the Apple 12 only to be sent to the rear of his heat the next night for "jumping"... Relegated to the B and the team was spitting mad in the pits.

yep...we are all just making sh!t up...about officiating crews that operate like they are "making sh!t up" as the night progresses.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I'm not doing sh!t buddy... Thread police are slighty less welcome than spelling police with me. 

i was standing beside AK and he was getting chewed out...and later Coach Bob and BlackSwamp came clean that the scales were screwed up.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

I say enjoy WOO while it is here and remember it when it's gone.

  How does IndyCar stay on TV with ratings worse than the awful ratings of the lpga?  It's a shame Lucas Oil is so bound up with the very so-so ASCS instead of some outfit with good racing.........or at least interesting.

I will say that having MavTV, I have scoped out most of the racing that they cover and I've gotta agree that Dirty 30 is one racing program that I can watch on TV.   I don't know if it's because non wing produces so much better racing than winged, but I can enjoy watching that one.   Watching the non wings from Indiana is far better than the hour long ASCS races they show.  

Although I DO like the ASCS showings, Dirty 30 is by far, superior.  I would even go as far as saying that there is more action, MORE passing, yes passing, in 30 minutes, than there is in the one hour show of ASCS.  I may also remember a show called something like "Indiana Sprints"?  Is that right?  I wonder where that went.....

This is the wrong thread you bone head, I know what your talking about but you posted it under the wrong thread, duh, your post has nothing to do with this thread, look back and read Lol, you meant to post under WoO platinum thread, OMG what a moron.

I have always thought that WoO was a very expensive adventure in travel/towing expense's alone not even taking into account the Race Car and all that goes along with racing.

I for quite a few years have thought that since the WoO isn't even close to what it used to be and there are alot of drivers in this Country, and Austrailia why not make 4 WoO sanctioned Race Clubs.  You can do this by dividing the Country into 4 different Sections.  California and Pennsyvania by far have the most Sprint Car Drivers.  So Divide the USA into Quaters and have 4 Clubs All WoO though.  Now any Driver can go to any Sanctioned Outlaw Race any where in the Country, but for those that cant travel all the time due to expenses they have Outlaw Races within say 300 to 500 miles from their home or closer. 

Now this can really be an advantage to alot of Drivers that only run a part time WoO schedule or only run 2 or 3 Outlaw Races a year that are close enough to their home.  The Outlaw champion would still be the points leader and the 2 BIG Outlaw Races the first being Knoxville and the 2nd being Charlotte where ALL 4 WoO clubs would meet and Compete.  The Points Leaders or Points Tie Breakers would be decided by those 2 races.

This is just an idea I have been thinking about and It really could bring the WoO back to what it was years ago.  It could also bring all the 410 Sprint Car Owners and Drivers to one Club and unite all the Different 410 Clubs into one.  This would be a win win for everybody involved and can bring out the BEST DRIVERS from all 410 Clubs into 1 Sanctioning Body.  The fans would win by having the BEST COMPETITION coming together for at least 2 races a year and will make for some GREAT RACING

Just My 2 Cents for what its worth

Long time reader, first time poster. I'm gonna draw some parallels between WoO and Supercross. This will be kinda long, but think about this for a second...

- Both sports have your big teams with professional drivers/riders, full time crew members, impressive race shops, and extremely nice haulers with 5 engines on board and drawers of titanium parts that cost more than some of us make in a year.  Both sports also have teams who are a second and a half off the pace every night and rub nickels together to make quarters so they can go racing.

- I don't know what a competitive Supercross bike costs, but for giggles let's say it's the same as a competitive WoO car.

- For most of the SX races, the purse is similar to a WoO show (about $10k to win, $1k to start - $500 tow money to the non-qualifying contracted teams).  I know weekday WoO shows pay less and there are big money races in boh sports, but for the sake of comparison let's just say the purse is equal.

- Race format is about the same (qualifying, short heats, last chance races, and 15-30 lap main events).

- I'd say they are pretty comparable in excitement to your average motorsports fan.  IMO, it's easier to hurt yourself on a bike but we've all seen some pretty gnarly sprint car crashes too.  I've seen great SX races that had me on the edge of my seat and I watched both WoO races in Texas last weekend in person and they were awesome.  The close finish at CottonBowl and watching DP and Schatz knife through lap traffic at Royal Purple Raceway were so much fun to watch.

- Tickets to SX events can be similar to a WoO ticket or way more expensive depending on how close you want to be.

- SX allows fans to walk through the pits and get autographs and photos before the races and interact with their favorite drivers.  Same with sprint car racing - the drivers are pretty accessible to fans.

Consider the following scenario: 

You're typical fan that shows up to the event:  You buy a $40 ticket.  Go to the merch trailer and buy a $30 t-shirt.  Take a photo with your favorite driver and get an autographed poster.  You buy $5 beers and $6 hamburgers and sit in the stands for 4-5 hours to ulimtately watch a 10-20 minute main event.

If we consider everything I listed above to be equal, in this scenario you could easily be at a SX race or a WoO race.

So what's the difference?  Monster Energy? Suzuki? Fox Sports 1?  How does a SX race pack out Angel Stadium and a WoO race puts 5,000 people in the stands?  Venue size- maybe.  But WoO has a much bigger schedule than SX, so pretty much regardless of where you live, compared to SX you can get to a WoO race without driving TOO far.  The closest SX race for me is St. Louis which is an 8 hour drive. I definitely think having a big corporate sponsor such as Monster Energy is huge for SX.  Craftsman is a GREAT thing for WoO, but it's definitely not on the same level as Monster Energy.  That could definitely play into the populartiy of SX.

The whole "Sprint car racing won't work on live TV" argument doesn't really work for me because SX does great and they have a similar event format.  I could be wrong, but I think if you can make SX work, it's not THAT much of a stretch to put together a good live show for WoO.  I think they do an alright job for the NASCAR Truck race at Eldora...you don't have to watch the bombers run 26 second laps and I didn't really lose interest despite TV commercials and DW yakking his head off.  It can be done.  Shoot some behind the scenes stuff - hauler tours, drivers at home in the off-season, life on the road and fill in the extra TV time with that.

I think for WoO to make it big and become mainstream, it definitely needs a TV deal. But there's more than that.  I believe one of the main reasons Supercross is so popular is because prett much anybody can go and buy a dirtbike from their favorite driver's manufacturer.  They can also buy the same Oakley goggles, Thor gear, and Fox boots.  If you wanted to, you can look like Ryan Dungey and ride a bike that looks and feels like the real deal.

Can't really do that with a sprint car.

Fans love the smell, the sounds, the dirt flying, the danger of both sports and the excitement of cheering on their favorite athlete.  But your average fan can't relate that well to Donny Schatz or Daryn Pittman because they don't have the money or knowlege to do what they see them do on the track.  I don't think there's any quick fix to make WoO (and sprint car racing as a whole) more mainstream to the general public.  By it's very nature it's a niche sport.  That's just how it is.

For it to survive in the future there needs to be a constant influx of new blood in the sport - that goes for fans and drivers.  For drivers and teams, that mostly comes down to who has the money to play the game (that horse has been dead for a long time).  But for fans - I think having WoO broadcast regularly on MavTV, FS1, or CBS Sports would be great.  

Also stuff like that new Big Ant Dirt Track Racing game could do more for the health and future of the sport than most people realize.  It's the closest thing many people will get to being on the track in a sprint car and it's a way to get more younger people interested in the sport.  It's not a marketing secret that if you can get the kids hooked the money will follow.  If you can get a family to the track the kids will get photos with drivers, autographs, a t-shirt and maybe even get to sit in a sprint car - that's all they'll be able to talk about for a month and they'll keep pestering Dad to take them back to the track where he'll shell out another $150.

To keep this sport going it will take a combination of an active title sponsor (thank you Craftsman) and getting new (and young) people to the track.  However that's accomplished, whether it's a TV deal, Big Ant video game (this is my plug for it - go back them on Kickstarter!), or something else I don't know...

Just my $0.02. Thanks for reading.

we tried TNN live didnt work, the live window was to narrow to work with. The cost of satellite time and network over run time were a real issue. the production time weather live or taped still cost $60 grand. not easy to sell commercial time as well. ratings a real issue also. thank Lucas Oil for what they are doing,22 races Sweet1USAC has tried ESPN as well but it all comes back to same problem COST.