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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Topic: Future of WoO
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sidecar
February 29, 2016 at 06:46:57 PM
Joined: 06/19/2006
Posts: 38
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we tried TNN live didnt work, the live window was to narrow to work with. The cost of satellite time and network over run time were a real issue. the production time weather live or taped still cost $60 grand. not easy to sell commercial time as well. ratings a real issue also. thank Lucas Oil for what they are doing,22 races Sweet1USAC has tried ESPN as well but it all comes back to same problem COST.



oswald
February 29, 2016 at 07:11:38 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 2010
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Posted By: NoDoors on February 29 2016 at 04:17:38 PM

I have always thought that WoO was a very expensive adventure in travel/towing expense's alone not even taking into account the Race Car and all that goes along with racing.

I for quite a few years have thought that since the WoO isn't even close to what it used to be and there are alot of drivers in this Country, and Austrailia why not make 4 WoO sanctioned Race Clubs.  You can do this by dividing the Country into 4 different Sections.  California and Pennsyvania by far have the most Sprint Car Drivers.  So Divide the USA into Quaters and have 4 Clubs All WoO though.  Now any Driver can go to any Sanctioned Outlaw Race any where in the Country, but for those that cant travel all the time due to expenses they have Outlaw Races within say 300 to 500 miles from their home or closer. 

Now this can really be an advantage to alot of Drivers that only run a part time WoO schedule or only run 2 or 3 Outlaw Races a year that are close enough to their home.  The Outlaw champion would still be the points leader and the 2 BIG Outlaw Races the first being Knoxville and the 2nd being Charlotte where ALL 4 WoO clubs would meet and Compete.  The Points Leaders or Points Tie Breakers would be decided by those 2 races.

This is just an idea I have been thinking about and It really could bring the WoO back to what it was years ago.  It could also bring all the 410 Sprint Car Owners and Drivers to one Club and unite all the Different 410 Clubs into one.  This would be a win win for everybody involved and can bring out the BEST DRIVERS from all 410 Clubs into 1 Sanctioning Body.  The fans would win by having the BEST COMPETITION coming together for at least 2 races a year and will make for some GREAT RACING

Just My 2 Cents for what its worth



A. Your plan would lose the thrill of the national traveling, big name teams coming to town. Often a promoters biggest payday. 

 

B. Then every track that was part of a region would have to pay the WoO a sanctioning fee. More expense for the local promoter for probably the same basic field of cars he always got anyway. The WRG is in business to make money, you know!

 

C. You kill off the Allsrars, King of the West, Mowa, NSL.  And basicly end the Posse vs the WoO rivalry by not having a traveling series with some of the best around coming to central Pa. anymore.

 

JMO 



sc lm race fan
February 29, 2016 at 07:37:26 PM
Joined: 01/27/2005
Posts: 411
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Posted By: TonyRostMotorsports on February 29 2016 at 06:13:51 PM

Long time reader, first time poster. I'm gonna draw some parallels between WoO and Supercross. This will be kinda long, but think about this for a second...

 

- Both sports have your big teams with professional drivers/riders, full time crew members, impressive race shops, and extremely nice haulers with 5 engines on board and drawers of titanium parts that cost more than some of us make in a year.  Both sports also have teams who are a second and a half off the pace every night and rub nickels together to make quarters so they can go racing.

- I don't know what a competitive Supercross bike costs, but for giggles let's say it's the same as a competitive WoO car.

- For most of the SX races, the purse is similar to a WoO show (about $10k to win, $1k to start - $500 tow money to the non-qualifying contracted teams).  I know weekday WoO shows pay less and there are big money races in boh sports, but for the sake of comparison let's just say the purse is equal.

- Race format is about the same (qualifying, short heats, last chance races, and 15-30 lap main events).

- I'd say they are pretty comparable in excitement to your average motorsports fan.  IMO, it's easier to hurt yourself on a bike but we've all seen some pretty gnarly sprint car crashes too.  I've seen great SX races that had me on the edge of my seat and I watched both WoO races in Texas last weekend in person and they were awesome.  The close finish at CottonBowl and watching DP and Schatz knife through lap traffic at Royal Purple Raceway were so much fun to watch.

- Tickets to SX events can be similar to a WoO ticket or way more expensive depending on how close you want to be.

- SX allows fans to walk through the pits and get autographs and photos before the races and interact with their favorite drivers.  Same with sprint car racing - the drivers are pretty accessible to fans.

 

Consider the following scenario: 

 

You're typical fan that shows up to the event:  You buy a $40 ticket.  Go to the merch trailer and buy a $30 t-shirt.  Take a photo with your favorite driver and get an autographed poster.  You buy $5 beers and $6 hamburgers and sit in the stands for 4-5 hours to ulimtately watch a 10-20 minute main event.

 

If we consider everything I listed above to be equal, in this scenario you could easily be at a SX race or a WoO race.

 

So what's the difference?  Monster Energy? Suzuki? Fox Sports 1?  How does a SX race pack out Angel Stadium and a WoO race puts 5,000 people in the stands?  Venue size- maybe.  But WoO has a much bigger schedule than SX, so pretty much regardless of where you live, compared to SX you can get to a WoO race without driving TOO far.  The closest SX race for me is St. Louis which is an 8 hour drive. I definitely think having a big corporate sponsor such as Monster Energy is huge for SX.  Craftsman is a GREAT thing for WoO, but it's definitely not on the same level as Monster Energy.  That could definitely play into the populartiy of SX.

 

The whole "Sprint car racing won't work on live TV" argument doesn't really work for me because SX does great and they have a similar event format.  I could be wrong, but I think if you can make SX work, it's not THAT much of a stretch to put together a good live show for WoO.  I think they do an alright job for the NASCAR Truck race at Eldora...you don't have to watch the bombers run 26 second laps and I didn't really lose interest despite TV commercials and DW yakking his head off.  It can be done.  Shoot some behind the scenes stuff - hauler tours, drivers at home in the off-season, life on the road and fill in the extra TV time with that.

I think for WoO to make it big and become mainstream, it definitely needs a TV deal. But there's more than that.  I believe one of the main reasons Supercross is so popular is because prett much anybody can go and buy a dirtbike from their favorite driver's manufacturer.  They can also buy the same Oakley goggles, Thor gear, and Fox boots.  If you wanted to, you can look like Ryan Dungey and ride a bike that looks and feels like the real deal.

 

Can't really do that with a sprint car.

 

Fans love the smell, the sounds, the dirt flying, the danger of both sports and the excitement of cheering on their favorite athlete.  But your average fan can't relate that well to Donny Schatz or Daryn Pittman because they don't have the money or knowlege to do what they see them do on the track.  I don't think there's any quick fix to make WoO (and sprint car racing as a whole) more mainstream to the general public.  By it's very nature it's a niche sport.  That's just how it is.

 

For it to survive in the future there needs to be a constant influx of new blood in the sport - that goes for fans and drivers.  For drivers and teams, that mostly comes down to who has the money to play the game (that horse has been dead for a long time).  But for fans - I think having WoO broadcast regularly on MavTV, FS1, or CBS Sports would be great.  

 

Also stuff like that new Big Ant Dirt Track Racing game could do more for the health and future of the sport than most people realize.  It's the closest thing many people will get to being on the track in a sprint car and it's a way to get more younger people interested in the sport.  It's not a marketing secret that if you can get the kids hooked the money will follow.  If you can get a family to the track the kids will get photos with drivers, autographs, a t-shirt and maybe even get to sit in a sprint car - that's all they'll be able to talk about for a month and they'll keep pestering Dad to take them back to the track where he'll shell out another $150.

 

To keep this sport going it will take a combination of an active title sponsor (thank you Craftsman) and getting new (and young) people to the track.  However that's accomplished, whether it's a TV deal, Big Ant video game (this is my plug for it - go back them on Kickstarter!), or something else I don't know...

 

Just my $0.02. Thanks for reading.



To answer the above post it is more different than the same.

Supercross heats only on tv. 2 250 heats (6 laps) and 2 450 heats (6 laps). 250 last chance (4 laps). 450 2 qualifyiers (5 laps) and a last chance (4 Laps).

Then a 15 lap 250 main and a 20 lap 450 main. Both classes are run 40 riders only. 20 make the main.

Sprint cars on tv. 4 heats 8 cars each (8 to 10 laps). Then a dash (8 laps), C main (10 laps), B main (12 laps). Then a 30 lap a main.

 

The biggest difference is in supercross you don't stop the race for a crash. Unless a gate malfunction or a rider on the track hurt and it will take more than 2 laps. With the two classes there is always bikes on track but for a few minutes of track maintenance. Over in 2 1/2 hours. Sprint cars we have to change setup put in fuel change tires. If it ran with 360 wing or non-wing or midgets. The other classes limited to heats and main only 16 cars. And they are timed. Big deal to many spin outs and ruff driving no give and take for tv IMO. Supercross starts at 7:30 at most track.



TonyRostMotorsports
MyWebsite
February 29, 2016 at 07:54:29 PM
Joined: 02/29/2016
Posts: 4
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sc lm race fan,

 

Keep in mind WoO laps are much faster than SX laps.  Yes, the WoO runs more laps but they go faster. If you add up all the laps you posted (even though I think more often than not you will not have a C main) you're looking at 77 SX laps and 100 WoO laps.

Depending on the track a typical SX lap is around 45-50 seconds.  WoO laps are 11-15 seconds.

 

As far as cautions go, you're exactly right.  SX keeps going and WoO stops the show.  But that's an easy fix for TV.  Send the live cameras down to the work area where the teams are thrashing for 2 minutes or cut to a driver interview or an analyst talking about the track changing or something.  There are definitely hurdles to jump over getting a sprint car event on live TV and having it done right - but I do believe it can be done.



minthess
MyWebsite
March 01, 2016 at 08:49:35 PM
Joined: 12/09/2008
Posts: 2403
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This message was edited on March 01, 2016 at 08:53:19 PM by minthess

No TV, plenty of chinese cars, spec engines and most of the special drivers chasing NASCAR lies and dirty money will certainly keep the sport from going to the next level.  I guess all is wellSmile


Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

dsc1600
March 01, 2016 at 09:18:18 PM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4683
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Reply to:
Posted By: minthess on March 01 2016 at 08:49:35 PM

No TV, plenty of chinese cars, spec engines and most of the special drivers chasing NASCAR lies and dirty money will certainly keep the sport from going to the next level.  I guess all is wellSmile



Yep, everything sucks. 

Sigh



sc lm race fan
March 01, 2016 at 10:31:55 PM
Joined: 01/27/2005
Posts: 411
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Reply to:
Posted By: TonyRostMotorsports on February 29 2016 at 07:54:29 PM

sc lm race fan,

 

Keep in mind WoO laps are much faster than SX laps.  Yes, the WoO runs more laps but they go faster. If you add up all the laps you posted (even though I think more often than not you will not have a C main) you're looking at 77 SX laps and 100 WoO laps.

Depending on the track a typical SX lap is around 45-50 seconds.  WoO laps are 11-15 seconds.

 

As far as cautions go, you're exactly right.  SX keeps going and WoO stops the show.  But that's an easy fix for TV.  Send the live cameras down to the work area where the teams are thrashing for 2 minutes or cut to a driver interview or an analyst talking about the track changing or something.  There are definitely hurdles to jump over getting a sprint car event on live TV and having it done right - but I do believe it can be done.



Very True TonyRostMotorsports. But you also have to look at who the sponcers are for Supercross / Motocross, Honda, Husqvarna, Kawasaki, KTM, Suzuki, Yamaha. Then the parts suppliers, rocky mountain atv mc. Then you have teams owned by the parts suppliers, and factory teams.

Sprint cars owned by one person, usally not a parts supplier or even frame manufacture or engine builder.

There is no move up in sprint cars not like supercross motocross. Run amature then move to the 250 the to the 450.

Sprint cars it's move from one owner to another owner to get from a saturday night track to a tour to a national tour.

The biggest problem with sprint cars is the red flags every time a car flips. Not only are you geting the crashed  car off the track you have to start all the cars line them back up the go back to racing. Now if they did a main only type racing having a one hour show. Tape the heats, dash and b main. Show them first in the first half an hour. Have the main start at 5 minutes after an hour or half hour. So you have 30 laps or 20 minutes. 30 x 15 sec = 7.5 minutes.



cjalger
March 02, 2016 at 10:49:39 PM
Joined: 06/12/2013
Posts: 144
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If you aren't willing to accept Schatz as a marquee name yet you need your head examined.  I love the Wolfgang, Kinser, Swindell argument. Wolfgang was hardly a World of Outlaw guy. Swindell has run for points only a few times in the last decade and Kinser hasn't challenged in that time as well.

 

As important as each of those guys were to building the national aspect of the sport and the home team vs Outlaw traveler mentality that makes racing even more fun.  Schatz, Pittman, Sweet coming in to face the NSL/Badlands, Posse, All-Star and King of the West is a pretty good sell is far as I am concerned, I actually don't think promoters do a good enough job of this.

Promoting it like a fight, wrestling match, underdog situation might be appealing to more people.  

 



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