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July 13, 2012 at
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So Jay Paterno is to be believed more than the report commissioned by Penn State itself by the former head of the FBI, unfrigginbelievable. 80 Schools about to leave the NCAA and leave them powerless, that may be a more stupid statement, beyond laughable. In due time the NCAA is going to pound this football program for allowing what happened to be kept under the rug for years and years and the whole country will cheer, 'cept a few morons in PA. Joe Pa was an enabler of the worst of crimes and his name while horribly tarnished now will be mud when this is all said and done, more importantly It Should Be!!!
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July 13, 2012 at
09:17:07 AM
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To say that this had nothing to do with the football team is short sided, the coverup(the reason this is even being talked about) had everything to do with the football team and the college. These people covered this up for the football team and Penn States name so it didn't affect the enrollment, recruiting and make bad press for the college. To say it had nothing to do with football then explain why they covered it up, were they all just fans of child molesters and wanted to see him get away with it, no way, they were protecting the football program and that is your NCAA link. You can say it didn't benefit them on the field or did it, they also were very likely trying to keep Sandusky in his position as he was obviously good at what he did as well and had they turned him in the first time they realized something odd was going on they would have lost him in that position as well.
If there was no coverup for the actions by high officials at the college, I would agree this has nothing to do with the NCAA or the college. The coverup though pulled the college into this thing, because the coverup actually worked does not mean that you say, well since it was a while ago we're not gonna punish you because that in turn almost gives a reason to try to cover something. As far as the Freeh report, I don't know the legitimacy of the author or the sources but I will say to Holden that quoting Jay Paterno(I assume Joe's son) to me has no legitimacy as he has a large vested interest in this and of course he doesn't want these things to be true so he will down play anything. Unbiased opinions will not come from people involved in the scandal or their families.
http://gph.is/XMLGff
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July 13, 2012 at
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I hate to tell you this, and maybe you were trying to be nice lol, but there seems to be more than a FEW morons in PA, just by reading whatever message boards you can find on this subject. I agree 100% with what you say.....Unfortunately, there are MANY who do not, and that is scary....very scary
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July 13, 2012 at
09:20:03 AM
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Nelligan,
Obviously, you don't understand anything about the NCAA and how it functions. In case you haven't been paying attention, the largest football programs in the country have been seriously considering breaking away from the NCAA for football, at least. To this point, those schools have granted the NCAA enforcement power. If the "institutional control" precedent is expanded, it gives another reason for them to start their own group. The real power is in the top four or five conferences. The only real financial power in the NCAA is in the men's basketball tournament. If the top schools decide they've had enough, they can put their own deal together. Do you think CBS, et.al is interested in a basketball tournament featuring Bradley and Marshall? I think not. If the NCAA oversteps here, it will be its death by its own stupidity. The NCAA is nothing but a political entity without any real earning power other than the men's basketball tournament.
I guess guys like Nelligan and OKC aren't so much stupid, it's just that they know so much that isn't so.
I'm not defending anybody here, I'm simply stating that when hate and emotion trump the law and due process, we have a big problem.
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July 13, 2012 at
09:47:33 AM
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This message was edited on
July 13, 2012 at
10:09:16 AM by MSPN
I'm sure the bowl games make them no money either, what a fool you are. I don't agree with the schools jumping conferences regularly these days and it is a bit scarry that there may be a 'super conference' forming but that's what money will do these days, sadly. I have probably forgot more about NCAA sports than you know and as a wagering man it makes much sense to follow things rather closely and I do.
Trying to defend Paterno's (by stating other coaches would have done the same, how stupid is that) and even worse PSU's actions in this matter is just plain dumb. The school will pay and not just financially. It is sad that a few can bring down so many but it's gonna happen and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Hate and emotion have nothing to do with it, not acting on a monster has everything to do with it and those in power to stop him, didn't. Period, end of story....
A great read from a former student, http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/8160271/joe-paterno-legacy-penn-state-aftermath-freeh-report
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July 13, 2012 at
10:46:42 AM
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Here is the bottom line.
Penn State lacked "Institutional Control" of it's Football Program and enabled a child molestor because of the "Lack of Institutional Control" by allowing Joe Paterno to basically decide whether or not they should report the incidents to the authorities or just take care of it internally (if this was a case of a coach calling or texting recruits when they weren't supposed to, they are OBLIGATED to report those violations to the NCAA, this is FAR WORSE than any NCAA rules violation, yet they chose to sweep it under the rug so they didn't get the school or football program's name tarnished in the media.
The NCAA does have bylaws on the books regarding the "Lack of Institutional Control", therefore they do indeed have jurisdiction in this case (because of e-mail trails and interviews that indicate that the AD, President and HEAD Football Coach all knew and instead of reporting it to the authorites. The FACT that the AD and President of the University allowed the Head Football Coach to basically decide what they were going to do means that the University had NO CONTROL over their Football Program, the Football Program had control of the University.
In my opinion, the NCAA has no choice but to hit Penn State with the Death Penalty in Football for at least 2 seasons, and should (IMO) go further to ensure that the University itself "pays the price" for putting athletics and legacy ahead of common decency.
The sad part about all of this is how "fans" of Penn State have their head buried in the sand. If you owned a business and you found out 1 of your employees was raping children in the bathroom while on break, would you (1) call the police or (2) talk to the guy and say, you can't bring kids here anymore (which is what Penn State did), my reputation in town would be tarnished if I call the cops to arrest you because I hired you without knowing you were a pedophile.
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July 13, 2012 at
11:31:18 AM
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Nelligan, Again you prove yourself to be an idiot. You brag about being a ""wagering man" as you think that gives you more knowledge about something that you're actually quite ignorant about. College football bowl games are NOT a source of revenue for the NCAA. Bowl games have contracts with CONFERENCES and TV rights are granted by the games and conferences (that's why all the movement by schools) and the NCAA gets nothing or next to nothing from these contracts. Again, you want to blame all these ills on money, yet the market sets the price because that's what the market (people) want. Again, if you want power taken away from these big sports factories then the only way it's going to happen is if people quit spending money on and time watching what they provide and the products they advertise. We haven't yet become a communist or socialist state where an all powerful government sets the market (although it seems we're trying to move that direction).
Powerful organizations and entities are corrupt and will do everything they can to cover up a problem. How do you know that most organizations wouldn't orchestrate a cover-up? It happens everyday in a variety of circumstances. Joe Paterno and PSU football were all-powerful indeed. Whose fault is that? Again, maybe folks should be pointing fingers at themselves.
As I've said before, this goes to show that Paterno stayed too long, accrued to much power and weakened his grip on things as he got older. It's not the first time it's happened, it won't be the last. It's a tragic story...on many fronts for many people. Paterno's dead so we'll never get the whole story from all perspectives. Again, let the legal system run it's course.
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July 13, 2012 at
12:05:36 PM
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The NCAA is a non-profit organization who makes a whole lot of money televising an assortment of games played each season.
'In all, the NCAA brought in more than $700-million in revenue last year, up from nearly $660-million the previous year. The bulk of that money—just under $590-million—came from television-rights fees. The NCAA's television contract at the time, which it replaced in April with a more-lucrative agreement, was backloaded to provide the association with greater payouts in the final years of the deal.' This includes football games even though basketball, specifically March Madness is the biggest money-maker they have.
But who cares, there is no defense for State Penn in this deal and a man who many thought was a Saint has proven to be tarnished beyone belief. Enough is enough, let the chips fall where they may.....
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July 13, 2012 at
12:28:27 PM
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Football is a VERY small part of the TV rights deal. If the top eighty or so football programs were to start their own organization, how long would it be until they started their own basketball tournament? The NCAA needs to be very careful. It's really painting itself into a corner. The schools leave and the conferences start putting together their own rulebook, and the money with all the new conference TV rights packages, there is no need for the NCAA. People follow the school brands regardless of who the sanctioning body is. That goes for football, basketball, baseball or whatever.
Got to be careful about setting a precedent of expanded enforcement or letting emotion run rampant. There's a saying in law "hard cases make bad law". Makes a lot of sense in this case.
You know Nelligan, you seem to have a lot of hate built up...or maybe you feel big when you stir up crap. I'm not from PA. and you are beginning to disgust me.
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July 13, 2012 at
12:33:55 PM
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Lol, I have no hate in me, life is great, couldn't be better, you should be so lucky. Aren't you the one that's been kicked out of here recently for the 'hate' stuff. Relax and continue to be miserable, it suits you.....
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July 13, 2012 at
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Again, just like the uninformed idiot that you are, casting espersions on me. I have no idea what you're talking about being "kicked out of here". Would you like to elaborate? Just another smear by you. I've noticed you've been pretty good at that over the years. I used to think you were a guy just having fun with people and tying to get a rise out them. It got old and now you're just another dim-witted coward. See, I can be a prick, too.
I'm done. My point is made. You can go f*** off.
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July 13, 2012 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: sprint777x on July 13 2012 at 12:28:27 PM
Football is a VERY small part of the TV rights deal. If the top eighty or so football programs were to start their own organization, how long would it be until they started their own basketball tournament? The NCAA needs to be very careful. It's really painting itself into a corner. The schools leave and the conferences start putting together their own rulebook, and the money with all the new conference TV rights packages, there is no need for the NCAA. People follow the school brands regardless of who the sanctioning body is. That goes for football, basketball, baseball or whatever.
Got to be careful about setting a precedent of expanded enforcement or letting emotion run rampant. There's a saying in law "hard cases make bad law". Makes a lot of sense in this case.
You know Nelligan, you seem to have a lot of hate built up...or maybe you feel big when you stir up crap. I'm not from PA. and you are beginning to disgust me.
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You do realize that the NCAA is the Universities don't you??
The NCAA is NOT a government or independent entity, they are a part of the UNIVERSITY MEMBER INSTITUTIONS. The members OWN the NCAA.
The member institutions want someone to "police" them, so they formed the NCAA to do so. Just because they don't like the way things work or how the consensus has gone will not entice them to break away from the NCAA.
Conferences are completely different, the only universities with input for the Big 10 Conference are the universities that are members. No one else gets a vote and they decide who and who isn't going to be part of their conference.
I have NO DOUBT in my mind that the Big 10 Conference will do nothing, as anything they would do would hurt all of their schools in the Big 10, not just Penn State.
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July 13, 2012 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: vande77 on July 13 2012 at 10:46:42 AM
Here is the bottom line.
Penn State lacked "Institutional Control" of it's Football Program and enabled a child molestor because of the "Lack of Institutional Control" by allowing Joe Paterno to basically decide whether or not they should report the incidents to the authorities or just take care of it internally (if this was a case of a coach calling or texting recruits when they weren't supposed to, they are OBLIGATED to report those violations to the NCAA, this is FAR WORSE than any NCAA rules violation, yet they chose to sweep it under the rug so they didn't get the school or football program's name tarnished in the media.
The NCAA does have bylaws on the books regarding the "Lack of Institutional Control", therefore they do indeed have jurisdiction in this case (because of e-mail trails and interviews that indicate that the AD, President and HEAD Football Coach all knew and instead of reporting it to the authorites. The FACT that the AD and President of the University allowed the Head Football Coach to basically decide what they were going to do means that the University had NO CONTROL over their Football Program, the Football Program had control of the University.
In my opinion, the NCAA has no choice but to hit Penn State with the Death Penalty in Football for at least 2 seasons, and should (IMO) go further to ensure that the University itself "pays the price" for putting athletics and legacy ahead of common decency.
The sad part about all of this is how "fans" of Penn State have their head buried in the sand. If you owned a business and you found out 1 of your employees was raping children in the bathroom while on break, would you (1) call the police or (2) talk to the guy and say, you can't bring kids here anymore (which is what Penn State did), my reputation in town would be tarnished if I call the cops to arrest you because I hired you without knowing you were a pedophile.
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Your last paragraph is a great analogy ...if ANY business owner allowed this to happen in ANY town ...they would be so 'done' ....you couldn't begin to stick a fork in them. I thought JoePa was one of the most decent and honest coaches in college football. No longer, I have zero respect for him or his legacy.
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July 13, 2012 at
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This message was edited on
July 13, 2012 at
03:42:27 PM by Brakeman
Reply to:
Posted By: sprint777x on July 13 2012 at 08:22:55 AM
Brakeman...you said "they" should sanction the program for five years. Since the conversation was about what the NCAA what did you expect someone to think?
OKC...perhaps the most stupid rant I have ever read from you...and that takes into account some REALLY stupid rants over time.
Let me ask ya'll something. Do you think Saban or Meyer or Stoops, ect. would have done anything different? How many lawbreakers are currently on scholarship around the country? These people are responsible for a lot of people and hundreds of millions of dollars programs. Remember too, big bad football pays for all the non revenue sports at a university, including Title 9 sports. Are you going to deny those athletes an opportunity? Right, let's penalize the school. Who do you think supports the state school? Your taxes! Sure, every school has donors, not just for sports but for music, teacher education, business, ect. Why should those people suffer?
We are a country of laws. How we enforce those laws set precedents. The criminal and civil courts will and have adjudicate(d) where it should. The NCAA would be opening a pandora's box if it gets involved. Here's something else to consider...if the NCAA got involved on the 'lack of institutional control" grounds, every member school in the NCAA could be found guilty of something. And the NCAA has no power or authority beyond what its member institutions grant them. If the NCAA gets involved, it would just give the eighty or so biggest athletic programs all the more reason to break away and start its own group, leaving the NCAA in a powerless position.
Finally, all of you haters of the supposed power college football programs have...would this story have been so big if it happened in PSU's music department? No. It's this big because the PSU football program, in this case, is something people actually CARE about. There's alot of money involved because people want to watch college football and support it with their own money. You want to take the power away, look at yourselves first, take it off tv, quit giving out scholarships, quit charging admission of more than $5 at an event and stop watching ESPN, FOX, ABC, CBS and NBC sports programming. Go out and support your local small college or high school sports.
Like that's really ever going to happen...
Bottom line...take a closer look at yourselves and let the legal system do it's job without all the hate and emotion that people want to stir up.
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The initial post was "The Freeh Report" the post by MSPN revolves around PSU not one word abouth the NCAA, so in my case I wrote 'they' and it would seem to indicate PSU not the NCAA to a rational thinker. PSU should do the decent thing and penalize THEMSELVES to show the world they are ashamed of the way it was covered up by PAST members of their university but covered up none the less. I think that would be much more 'classy' than having the NCAA penalize them.
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July 14, 2012 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: sprint777x on July 13 2012 at 08:22:55 AM
Brakeman...you said "they" should sanction the program for five years. Since the conversation was about what the NCAA what did you expect someone to think?
OKC...perhaps the most stupid rant I have ever read from you...and that takes into account some REALLY stupid rants over time.
Let me ask ya'll something. Do you think Saban or Meyer or Stoops, ect. would have done anything different? How many lawbreakers are currently on scholarship around the country? These people are responsible for a lot of people and hundreds of millions of dollars programs. Remember too, big bad football pays for all the non revenue sports at a university, including Title 9 sports. Are you going to deny those athletes an opportunity? Right, let's penalize the school. Who do you think supports the state school? Your taxes! Sure, every school has donors, not just for sports but for music, teacher education, business, ect. Why should those people suffer?
We are a country of laws. How we enforce those laws set precedents. The criminal and civil courts will and have adjudicate(d) where it should. The NCAA would be opening a pandora's box if it gets involved. Here's something else to consider...if the NCAA got involved on the 'lack of institutional control" grounds, every member school in the NCAA could be found guilty of something. And the NCAA has no power or authority beyond what its member institutions grant them. If the NCAA gets involved, it would just give the eighty or so biggest athletic programs all the more reason to break away and start its own group, leaving the NCAA in a powerless position.
Finally, all of you haters of the supposed power college football programs have...would this story have been so big if it happened in PSU's music department? No. It's this big because the PSU football program, in this case, is something people actually CARE about. There's alot of money involved because people want to watch college football and support it with their own money. You want to take the power away, look at yourselves first, take it off tv, quit giving out scholarships, quit charging admission of more than $5 at an event and stop watching ESPN, FOX, ABC, CBS and NBC sports programming. Go out and support your local small college or high school sports.
Like that's really ever going to happen...
Bottom line...take a closer look at yourselves and let the legal system do it's job without all the hate and emotion that people want to stir up.
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It was ideological.....to a naive point - I'll give ya that lol
Just hard to think of punishments severe enough. If this happens anywhere, coaches living or gone, legendary or not - the penalty needs to be immense. thats my long story short. (after the long story lol).
I actually dig the logic of the rest of your article. But man - it's still pretty damn bad how many people were in on it at Penn State.
side note - no one could have ever pulled off a Sandusky in a music department. His horrific acts went unpunished/unprosecuted largely because of PSU football and the money behind it.
And yes the NCAA should totally be destroyed. They have absolutely no control over anything and we have repeated examples of this
How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a
wouldchuck could chuck would
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July 14, 2012 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: longtimefan on July 13 2012 at 08:36:06 AM
Sandusky can't be punished enough, the other top people are going to get their's also, not sure about what to do with football but anyone who says close down the school is uninformed about what Penn State is. It is, I think eight or more campuses across the state. It is most of the agricultural research done in the state and one of the top nationwide. It is the Hershey Medical Center which is Penn State's school of medicine. (without which I would not have my right hand although it is somewhat impaired without their research for which I was a guinea pig it would have been amputated) Anyone who wants to close all that down for what a few people did needs to give that a little more rational thought. To people outside the state Penn State may only be football but believe it or not there is a lot more there than a dozen football games a year.
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yes the shutting down Penn State is an over-exagerration. They should shut down the football and make sure the suits that played their part get whats coming.
I agree with you totally. Just went a little too far on condemning the whole institution (although there should be some price to pay....even for the current suits - the old suits should get slammed)
How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a
wouldchuck could chuck would
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July 14, 2012 at
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We need to lighten this thread up with a joke........................
(Q)...What did K-mart and Jerry Sandusky have in common...?...?...?...
(A)...They both had boys pants half off...;)
Opinions may vary...
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July 14, 2012 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: sprint777x on July 13 2012 at 09:20:03 AM
Nelligan,
Obviously, you don't understand anything about the NCAA and how it functions. In case you haven't been paying attention, the largest football programs in the country have been seriously considering breaking away from the NCAA for football, at least. To this point, those schools have granted the NCAA enforcement power. If the "institutional control" precedent is expanded, it gives another reason for them to start their own group. The real power is in the top four or five conferences. The only real financial power in the NCAA is in the men's basketball tournament. If the top schools decide they've had enough, they can put their own deal together. Do you think CBS, et.al is interested in a basketball tournament featuring Bradley and Marshall? I think not. If the NCAA oversteps here, it will be its death by its own stupidity. The NCAA is nothing but a political entity without any real earning power other than the men's basketball tournament.
I guess guys like Nelligan and OKC aren't so much stupid, it's just that they know so much that isn't so.
I'm not defending anybody here, I'm simply stating that when hate and emotion trump the law and due process, we have a big problem.
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I agree with your final sentence very much.
NCAA lost all credibility in the laughable way they handled Cam Newton (and so many countless others before or after). It really is a political entity that should be sent to the HoF's and thats it.
I don't think what you are saying is stupid - nor esp Nelligan's. Mine yesterday was......well - impassioned lol. You're right about the process and I wasn't really talking about the process (not really). But this whole clusterf&ck of horror has exposed how little the NCAA matters - hence they should not be the ruling body. They drop brick trucks on the Arkansas Little Rock @ Pine Bluff track team but cant hit the ground falling from the sky in an endeavor to punish the big schools for all that they do.
And finally - there was no real due process for the victims - so imo shouldn't be for the football program as well (for a while). If not jettison the whole team for a few years - then at least take away non conference games - and for those left - absolutely no tv. NONE!!! not games, not highlights - nothin.
How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a
wouldchuck could chuck would
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July 14, 2012 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: vande77 on July 13 2012 at 10:46:42 AM
Here is the bottom line.
Penn State lacked "Institutional Control" of it's Football Program and enabled a child molestor because of the "Lack of Institutional Control" by allowing Joe Paterno to basically decide whether or not they should report the incidents to the authorities or just take care of it internally (if this was a case of a coach calling or texting recruits when they weren't supposed to, they are OBLIGATED to report those violations to the NCAA, this is FAR WORSE than any NCAA rules violation, yet they chose to sweep it under the rug so they didn't get the school or football program's name tarnished in the media.
The NCAA does have bylaws on the books regarding the "Lack of Institutional Control", therefore they do indeed have jurisdiction in this case (because of e-mail trails and interviews that indicate that the AD, President and HEAD Football Coach all knew and instead of reporting it to the authorites. The FACT that the AD and President of the University allowed the Head Football Coach to basically decide what they were going to do means that the University had NO CONTROL over their Football Program, the Football Program had control of the University.
In my opinion, the NCAA has no choice but to hit Penn State with the Death Penalty in Football for at least 2 seasons, and should (IMO) go further to ensure that the University itself "pays the price" for putting athletics and legacy ahead of common decency.
The sad part about all of this is how "fans" of Penn State have their head buried in the sand. If you owned a business and you found out 1 of your employees was raping children in the bathroom while on break, would you (1) call the police or (2) talk to the guy and say, you can't bring kids here anymore (which is what Penn State did), my reputation in town would be tarnished if I call the cops to arrest you because I hired you without knowing you were a pedophile.
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+1 except for a few details. they did it for money too along with a tarnished name (all the same thing i guess).
But I totally agree with you.
How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a
wouldchuck could chuck would
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July 14, 2012 at
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Reply to:
Posted By: MSPN on July 13 2012 at 12:05:36 PM
The NCAA is a non-profit organization who makes a whole lot of money televising an assortment of games played each season.
'In all, the NCAA brought in more than $700-million in revenue last year, up from nearly $660-million the previous year. The bulk of that money—just under $590-million—came from television-rights fees. The NCAA's television contract at the time, which it replaced in April with a more-lucrative agreement, was backloaded to provide the association with greater payouts in the final years of the deal.' This includes football games even though basketball, specifically March Madness is the biggest money-maker they have.
But who cares, there is no defense for State Penn in this deal and a man who many thought was a Saint has proven to be tarnished beyone belief. Enough is enough, let the chips fall where they may.....
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and they dont even have to pay their players either. smfh
How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a
wouldchuck could chuck would
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