Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Is it just me or does anyone else remember when Ted Johnson ran the Outlaws and we worried more about if we could get the time off work to go to a race?  All this chatter about purses and where they could race nowadays is way out of my lane.  Nobody seems concerned by the important things like how much a ticket costs and what kind of beer the track sells.  

Stan Meissner

USAC battles this very thing in Indiana all the time. You can go watch a lot of the non-wang heros sling rooster tails of clay on any given night at a weekly venue. You don't necessarily have to go to a USAC show. 

The WoO have a brand to protect. They are the big boys, they've earned that reputation. If you want to be a so called 'real outlaw', go the Brian Brown & Brent Marks route, they seem to do ok. Now, you might have to downgrade from the upper echelon level pit lizard, but that's ok too, you just might find a real one. A gal willing to traverse the country in a noisy well used toter instead of a luxury Prevost motor coach. Now that's a ride or die you marry. 

Please don't give the buffoon any air (attention). This will turn into the usual Hoseheads pissing match. 

I think WRG realized they needed to amend their practices slightly given the fact that Flo is involved. Flo isn't some loosely put together band of promoters/drivers. It's a multi-million dollar enterprise and simply trying to muzzle them wouldn't work. They also took their bonus money which was around $500k last year and converted it into a loyalty bonus to put more attention on it. Now the champ could get an additional $150k for not running the majority of the High Limit schedule. That's hard to ignore. 
 

But they gave in slightly, allowing the drivers to get a few extra pay days. I think it's working, but we'll see come Feb and March. 

Ticket prices, Flavor of Beer (include the weather forecast and car count) Yes sir, those are what concerns me! :) 

So is there any significant new money in the new points system? Or did they just transfer the daily bonus tow money into the year end loyalty program?

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

Enlighten us-----why does WRG not have good business practices?  I've yet to be at an Outlaw race where the stands weren't busting at the seams and I know they get paid very well to show up.  How is that not good business practice?  Holy crap.  Seems like model business practice to me.

Also------I'm assuming if Patrick Mahomes decided to play some Arena League ball on a Wednesday night, KC and the NFL would have no problems with this either, correct?......................................  If I were a betting man, I would bet that guys like Mahomes have a clause in their contract that won't even let him ride a jet ski, let alone moonlight.  

When I was a foreman of a machine shop, I did not allow any of my employees to moonlight at other shops.  Some of them did not get it.  Bad for our business all the way around.  Nothing different than the WRG policy.  Nothing.  

I've gone back and forth with some forum members on what is considered fair. And like some of the points all of you had made, it's not uncommon to see non complete clauses written in contracts. There is a reason these exist. 

Can you name any NBA, NFL, MLB player that can go and play for another team on their day off? How about the minor leagues?

The WOO are considered the best in the business. When you sign the contract you agree to those terms, and guess what, if you don't like the terms, don't sign. You can still run the FULL WOO schedule. Every single race and race some of the best paying purses.

The teams,  what I believe are currently considered platinum, will be compensated pretty well, NOT even considering the purse money. The WOO are paying those drivers who are racing exclusively with them, PLUS you get to race another (4) races. Everyone knows that the WOO get thee most exposure, and sponsors know this too!

If (4) races are not acceptable, then what number is? "They should be able to race whereever, whenever" So you're NOT okay with rewarding those drivers who chose to race only with the WOO? 

Keep It Real

The actual point fund has been increased by $25k. No one knows for sure other than the teams as to how much was given under the old bonus structure, but it appeared to be around $7k per race at about 70 races so that's around $500k paid out. The new loyalty bonus is about $750k so that's an increase of $250k-ish. Actual numbers probably vary a bit but it looks like about $200-300k was added from last years bonus plan to this years loyalty bonus.

I went to the Eldora Million back in 2003.  Biggest purse of any Sprint Car race I ever attended.  Didn't make a bit of difference what it paid, the most non-wing cars I have seen in one place and we had a blast in the campground.  Been to a couple Nationals as well.  If I travel out of central Minnesota for a race it's always between Knoxville, Husets or River Cities.  I can see where this would be a much bigger deal back east where there's a lot more Sprint racing.  We have five nights of 410w races within an hour of home per season and anything else requires traveling.  

Stan Meissner

Thank you. Fairly clear. Basically a moderate increase for inflation and a redistribution process that looks more generous and visible.

The team will need to find their own gas money through the year and get some back in a lump if they are loyal.

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

The high limit sprint car series will be just like the USA deal. 1 yr and it will be over. Marks had a incredible year, chances of that taking place again are slim.  Do I think guys should be allowed to race when and where they choose to ? For sure. WRG compensates the tour drivers quite well. The teams on the road already have employee issue, the crewchief and driver are doing ok but the guys below that do it for the love of the sport because there not banking a lot of money. No matter how you cut it and you always here it, guys get burned out quickly with the travel and the work schedules. Teams load up after a night of racing  have cleaning and maintenance issues to deal with, travel time to the next race, and where they plan on stopping for the night. Most hotels you need to be checked out by 10. Yea, great life, and not so long ago drivers and team owners begged for less shows because they couldn't get help. They were all getting burned out. More days on the road is not the answer. 

Um, isn't the drivers and team's the ones wanting more money shows... 

The USA series went head to head with the World of Outlaws with drivers leaving the WoO and splitting cars and drivers between the two.  The High Limit Series is modeled after Floracing's Race Night in America, a midweek series that does not schedule against any Of the Late Model series.  It's two different situations when compared to the two times WoO teams went head to head with the Outlaws.  The High Limit races will take place at tracks where they stand a good chance to draw weekly racers, All Stars and now possibly a few WoO teams.  For example, one of the shows will take place at Lakeside and I expect to they'll be well represented by drivers from Knoxville, Husets and others from the Midwest.  Other events further east will attract teams from those areas and a few traveler.  Sweet and Larson have made this clear in every press release and interview, that they're not going head to head with anyone and do not intend to.  Why do those stated facts keep getting twisted into anything other than what they have clearly stated so many times?  As far as one year and done, Race Night in America on the Late Model side has provided mid week races for several years with no adverse effects on Lucas Oil series or WoO Late Models.  

Stan Meissner

Absolutely 100% spot on.  Any team can race every WoO race and as many other races as they wish.   On the other hand, any team can race exclusively with the WoO and receive substantial compensation.  Still a free country.  I've heard comments about Kinser not liking the WoO organization, which is pretty well documented.  However, he only tried to get a way a handful of times and holds 20 championships.  He may not have always agreed with them, but he knew their model paid the bills. 

Every team and Driver still has the option to race where they want to when they want to. Nobody is saying you can't go here or must go there. People who are choosing to sign on with the world racing group are making the choice and they can still race anywhere they want anytime they want. Their decision will have Financial consequences but every decision has a financial consequence. If the drivers choose on their own will to be faithful to the world racing group they will benefit financially if they want to go looking for other options to win money they will be deducted financially by the World Racing group. In short every race team has complete choice of their own as to where they want to race.

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

They are allowed to race when and where they choose.  No one has taken that right.  However, the WRG also offers them a deal to NOT race where and when they choose.  No one holds a gun to their heads.  If it's such a bad deal, teams wouldn't take the deal every year.  

It's really not easy to stay on such a schedule. I can't imagine if I lived like that. These people get very tired. And they also have competitions to run. I don't wonder why accidents happen sometimes.

6 of the 10 best racers, 8 of the 10 best races and absolutely the best incentive program/point fund in the country.  Good compromise from years past that will evolve as years go just like everything else in racing does.  At least they are not doing an ignorant chase format like Lucas Oil Late Models..lol.   Looking forward to Tulsa Shootout in a couple weeks to start the raceing season off. 

Platinum World of Outlaw Sprint car drivers can race anywhere they want when they want as long as they don't race a Sprint car. That compares to NASCAR because Larson and Stenhouse and Bell are not taking their NASCAR to a different track. The world racing group is essentially hiring employees to Market their brand and product. Employees are expected to abide by the rules of a company. If the employee wants more freedom he has the option to leave the company. It's entirely up to the individual person if they want to submit to a set of rules and live within some restrictions or whether they want no restrictions and no benefits. Very much like almost every job in our continent.

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

This deal might look good on the surface, but it's not what people think. There is an increase of roughly $110,000 in bonus money for the champion. Second is around $45,000 compared to last year, and third is $13,000 compared to last year. After that, it drops down to $5,000 more depending on the position. Toward 10th, it drops down to roughly $1,500 more than 2022.

Something to note: If the series ends up running more races than last year — 69 a year ago — that cuts into those increases, because it was a per-race performance in 2022. We will see how it shakes out.

As for the four races, that might be the biggest sore spot. The Cappy, Front Row Challenge, two races at Eldora Kings Royal week, all count against the teams. In the past, such events didn't. So, WRG didn't give at all on that. Also, if a driver runs another car — say Zearfoss for Aaron Long or Macedo for Tarlton — it counts against the driver and not the Outlaw team. In turn, the bonus money can be cut in half if they cross the four threshold. 

I will have a story explaining the owner's stance and how this all transpired in the next couple of days.