Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I know Jac Haudenschild got DQed at Nodak sunday nite. I know he also had a flat right rear which made it hard and unbalanced to weigh and it took almost 40 minutes for a ruling? My question to anyone that may know or was there did he actually get a fair weighing because of the tire, how much was he under, and would it even be fair or accurate to weigh a car that was lopsided and unbalanced? I personally think they kinda shafted him its one thing if the car is perfect and he is light i can live with that. They should have put air in the tire that is if it would hold air and make the car balanced and if they put 10lbs in make him weigh 1385! Plus i think if this was Schatz, Kinser, Saldana, or one of the other favorite sons the judgement might have been different!

I wouldn't think it would matter if the car was lopsided or not... it still weighs what it weighs. Flat tire or not, the air in the tire doesn't weigh 10 pounds.

yea but Gibson said they were having trouble weighing him cuz of the flat tire and each tire has a pod type scale to sit on. and why wouldnt 10lbs of pressure weigh 10lbs?

Your air compressior doesn't weigh an extra 120 pounds when it's charged to 120psi, does it?

Yea thats what i'm not sure about is how thats measured or weighed?

I'm still chuckling!!lol

Ok, time for some engineering lessons.

First, an object, such as a car, weighs a given amount. The points that contact the earth (for a car, it is the 4 tires) each bear a percentage of that weight based on how much the components that make up the object weigh and where they are located in relation to each other. If you lift one of contact points off of the earth like a flat tire might do, the total weight of the object does not change. Only the distribution percentages.

Second, the air inside a tire is actually measure in pounds per square inch (psi) - it's just easier to say "pounds." Psi is a measure of pressure, which is directly related to the size of the container. A right rear sprint car tire is obviously much larger than front tire, so it takes more air to create 10 psi in the RR tire than it does in the front tire.

Third, air is just that. Air. When confined inside a tire it will add weight to the tire/wheel assembly, but it's only air and it won't add that much.

Signature here.

wtf are you talking about? 10 lbs of air means that there is 10 lbs of pressure per square inch in the tire. it has nothing to do with how much the tire weighs. if you took a bicycle tire and put 65 lbs of air in it do you think the tire weighs 65 lbs? if you put 5 lbs of air into a ballon do you think it weighs 5 lbs? each tire has a certain amount of the car's weight sitting on it. there are ramps that the car drives up on to go on the scales. those ramps also run between the scales front to back so the car can travel over the first set of scales with the front tires and end up with the front tires on the front set of scales and the rear tires on the rear set of scales. there are four seperate scales about the size of a large bath room scale that the car sets on. the combined weight of each corner of the car is the total weight. it a car has a low tire and the frame bottoms out on the ramp, it does not let some of the weight set on the scale. therefore reducing the total weight that would be read. stand with one foot on a bath scale and one foot on the ground. the scale will not read your actual weight becase you are not putting all your weight on it. you still weigh the same. but the scale can not read it because you are not putting all your weight on it. i do not know if that is in fact what happened, just pointing out a possibility.

I got a nice chuckle myself. haha

There must be something to this because even Jason Meyers, the race winner, was quoted as saying, "It was definitely a concern (his RR tire). I had to run it as hard as I could. Then when you get done and you have burned all the rubber off, you are worried about weight over the scales."

Here's something else to try. Since you weigh what you weigh, stand on a scale with one foot and have the other off to your side or something but not touching the ground. Does the scale read your same weight? With the cars, they have four separate scales operating to get the total weight. With a flat tire, that one corner may not read the true poundage and give a false total. It's a possibility.......

a half a gallon of fuel weighs more than the rubber you would lose off the tire. if they are cutting things that close.....?

a rich girl like you has an aluminum compressor anyway I bet.

10 pounds of aluminum is much lighter than ten pounds of iron, that is the reason the racers use coated aluminum lettering on their cars.

Jeesch, I thought everybody knew that.

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I think the casual race fan would be shocked at how much weight can be lost in rubber from the tires. I think Neil C. with Hoosier said between all 4 tires around 38 lbs of rubber can be lost (around 5 gallons worth of fuel). As for how the car was weighed, same exact thing happened with Dollansky at that track before when he ran 2nd. He went back to the shop and weighed the car himself and found it to be within a few pounds on his scales. Haud likes to be close on weight, always has.

OK that was fun ,but i've got a serious question...when Cole Whitt comes of the corner,three tires in the air,does that mean the RR is supporting all 1350lbs of car weight,even if his left rear is flat?How about density altitude,I here the gravitational pull is less in the southern hemisphere.... factor in all the variables...bottom line ...Jac's car was light......

OK, think about this...a new tire, which has a full tread, weighs X pounds(the number doesn't matter). A worn out tire, with little or no tread, weighs X-wear pounds, whick is less than the tire weighed when new. So Meyers comment was probably more concern about meeting the minimum weight requirement after the race, since his car was now lighter in weight by: 1) Fuel burned off during the race and 2) Tires that weigh less due to being worn out. It's not about weight distribution, it's about aggregate weight.

And it seems to me that the WoO gave the R19 a lot of chances to make weight, if it took 40 minutes before Jac was dq'd....

Chuck.....

Plus i think if this was Schatz, Kinser, Saldana, or one of the other favorite sons the judgement might have been different!

I believe they all have been bit by not making weight.

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i don't think anyone is faulting woo at this time for jac being light. i just think folks are wondering how the process was done and if the tire being flat contributed.

it depends on which 3 tires are in the air! density altitude changes with temp. it is water grains that matter! everyone knows water weighs more than air! gravitational pull is based on how close the earth is to the sun!

I think the real point of this wieght issue is that a RR is a rather large tire, the scale in use can be easily misjudged on a flat RR, the position of the car on the scales is pretty crucial, (the scales are pretty small target, the ones being utilized byWoO that is) im sure they are precise ,but, the real trouble is when a fraction if the tire is not being wieghed ,thus causeing a light car possibly? what should have been done ,was Haud should have been allowed to air his tire to acceptable level to clear scales (or a official exicute this airing )(or wiegh his spare RR,and flat RR compair both weights and make a decision) after all, there is thousands of dollars of wieghing equipment there, some strong officiating should be in effect during the accumulation of the cars total wieght

I will say this, cars teched on the 17th were referred and checked off to the legality of the R-19, I never seen a car run across the scale prior to time trials, Humm?

This is all well and good and very educational, but where the hell is Mark Kinser?