Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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https://racingnews.co/2023/12/10/high-limit-sprint-cars-introducing-charter-system-to-dirt-racing/

10 charters are set to be handed out over the next two seasons. 5 will be awarded at the end of 2024 and another 5 at the end of the 2025 season.

At the end of the 2024 season, the top 5 teams in points will be awarded the first batch of charters. It only counts for teams that can full-time with the series.

At the end of the 2025 season, the top 5 in points that do not already have a charter will be gifted a charter. After 2025, 10 teams will have a charter.

Media revenue will be shared to charter backed teams beginning in 2026. The ten charter teams will collect 50% of the streaming revenue earned for the series, annually.

Streaming revenue has always been a question. Two years ago I know the IRA rececived $1,500 a night from Flow. Not knowing the details of the Charter or how things are set up that means the 10 charters would receive $75 a night in an IRA senario.

Charter is awarded to team which I can understand, but it doesn't give the driver any security. Just gives the car owner something of value in the future, maybe.

It's interesting......

Good article on the charter system...

Kyle Larson's disruptive new sprint car series to create charter system

For decades people have been talking about "taking sprint car racing to the next level". Well, here it is. I don't feel this will take the sport in the right direction.

****My opinion ****

* We're building a monster, a genie that can't be put back in the bottle.

*WoO will come out wi a similar 'franchise' system to complete.

*Each team hires a new crew member -a corporate attorneyto keep on top of the money rules, changes and protests when things don't go the team owner' way.

* As they try to emulate NASCAR, look for HL to start with gimmicks. Say hello to lucky dogs, phantom yellows and playoffs.

* Sure, HL drivers can race WoO races, for now. As this rivalry gets uglier I expect both player to retaliate against the "other" teams- for "brand protection" don't you know.

* With the exception of a few big races, I expect the HL owners to not allow their teams to race outside of HL, lest they risk tearing up some equipment, etc.

* Look for a bigger disparity between the haves and have nots. And watch costs go through the roof.

*As the franchise owners get established, watch them assert their power to have things changed to favor them

* Grassroots sprint car racing as we know and love it becomes just a variation of over-hyped, drama money motor sports.

* In 5 years we will be looking for some savior to come in and "fix" big time sprint car racing.

Note: I'm typing this on my iPad. I didn't fix all the grammar and spelling errors. Think of it as grass roots message board posting.

***My opinion***

The money from streaming is out there. Perhaps a better idea would be to share it with the teams that show up to a race, not have some distant promise that 5 of you are going to get an undertermined bucket of money down the road if you jump through all the hoops?
 

There was a day when purses were paid a percentage of the gate. It wouldn't be that difficult to devise a payout system where you say "in addition to the posted payout, each team competing tonight receives a percentage of tonight's streaming revenues based on this transparent formula..."

Absolutely nailed it. The sooner people realize they're out for themselves under the guise of "advancing the sport", the better off they'll be. A lot of smoke and mirrors. The charter system in principle isn't much different than the WoO locking in platinum members. If you want the charter, you gotta run high limit. Charter is just a fancy word for money. Because that's what it comes down to is money. Yes you can also race elsewhere which the WoO gives limited ability to do as well albeit hardly anyone ever actually uses them yet some bitch that 4 it isn't enough. $20,000 to win unsanctioned show at Baps this November. Who showed up? Zearfoss, Schuchart and Jacob. That's it. This whole thing is about steering money and control their way and the fans will be the ones picking up the bill. Where's this streaming revenue come from? Fans. Where's ticket and $35 t-shirt money come from? The fans. So as this series "grows" in theory, it'll inevitably need more money. As a business grows, it needs more money to operate and to make more money. Is that money coming from Kyle's NASCAR millions? Hell no. Is Brad gonna donate some of his NAPA money to the cause? Hell no. What about Kasey? He's loaded......but no. It'll come from the fans and working class people will be priced out of existence just like we've seen in NASCAR. Hopefully the local tracks in PA who didn't whore themselves out to Flo and Kyle will operate independently and keep affordable weekly programs going. Look at the net worth of any of the top 30 or so owners in the sport. They have enough money to do whatever the hell they want. Yet they want more money from YOU. They want to keep as much of their money in the bank as possible but still drive around the country in decked out trailers with 100 million spares and sleep in a $300,000 motorhome every night all while bitching about cost. Oh the irony.

I doubt this will work without the above mentioned attorneys, plural. They ask teams to make a three commitment to an organization trying to do what others tried and failed in 365 days, for an undisclosed unknown amount of money starting two years from now. 
 

in 2024 two owners will be running the show and racing in it. By 2026 there will essentially be 12 who may not own a share but feel like owners who will want to act like owners. 12 people wanting to run one event all in a way that will benefit themselves the most. 
 

good luck with that. 
 

Tony could do this cause he was one guy and when his staff stiffed a race team Tony showed up to apologize and write a cheque to help make it right. To many cooks in the kitchen for me. 
 

I understand they need an advertisable roster for the media but a carrot on a two year long rope could be less desirable by the time you reach it compared to when you start. 
 

Im thinking a one year agreement for a black and white and green return would be much more practical. 

To be fair, we can't single out HL as the sole bad guy here, WoO plays money games as well. Presumably, the revenue from streaming should fuel most of the growth. The increases to the fans will be mostly due to inflation.

Great post Murphy you laid it all out and just as fixxer also said there's going to be a trickle down effect that lands on the fans. Anytime someone says there gonna take it to the next level I always think no the fans are gonna do that because someone has to pick up the tab and that sure as hell won't be the powers that be.

That is how I feel as well....The real loser in all of this will be the local weekly shows. I include myself as being a hypocrit. I will now have to save my money for the big shows. I won't mind paying the higher admission prices to see The Outlaws and High Limits, but probably will stay home for the weekly shows and watch on streaming. I am sad to admit that, but the older I get, the more interest I have in seeing the special shows where I am guaranteed to see the bigger stars vs the locals race.(although that will now be wattered down with the split) So instead of going to 20 to 25 races a year, I will now go to 10 to 12 races. I will probably spend the same amount to attend less races in person and I am not happy about that.

Of course. But I don't see the WoO out there pedaling themselves as revolutionaries that are here to save the sport from the meanie butts who won't do "enough" to subsidize a bunch of damn millionaires who themselves are very much to blame for pushing the costs of the sport to where they are today. Take a look at how much it costs to have Blackbeard render a design then to take that design and wrap 12 cars, transporter, a pit cart and your merch trailerto sell $30-$35 shirts out of that only cost maybe $5-$7 to print. They CHOOSE to do shit like that. The local sign guy down the road can decal your shit for a fraction of the cost. My cousin does it on the side in fact and he's damn good at it. Yet they choose to live in the lap of luxury then bitch that they're not making enough money. Spare me. The people not making enough money is the bulk of the fanbase who is spending over $200 a week on groceries for the family and being crushed by record inflation. Yet all I see is talk of the teams and putting more money in the pockets of the drivers. How much revenue are they gonna share with the fans? Not a damn penny. It'll just cost us more so that Kasey Kahne gets to spend more of someone else's money. I don't see the WoO selling themselves as something they aren't. By no means are they perfect but they are who they are. 

Is your print getting larger or are my eyes getting better....wtf....Okay, lets move back to that new act that no one has ever seen happen before. The times certainly are a changing.

Another fact, it looks like High Limit set the standard of charging $40 per ticket with their Mid week shows last year. I guarantee other tracks will follow suit in 2024. I see Williams Grove released their 2024 schedule today. The National Open will be $40 on Friday and $50 on Saturday. It was only a few short years ago The National Open weekend was $30 and $35. I will still pay the $90 because it is one of my favorite races of the year and I want to see the track suceed, but it might mean not going to a few $20 regular races throughout the year. Again, how is High Limits bettering the sport? This is a pissing contest between Flo & Dirtvision.

To buku, to buku.

It will be interesting to see if this charter system works out.  All the races?  What about equipment failure, theft of a car or something big and then there are injuries or sickness.  Seems like a percentage of the events with a provision for the previous sentence is in order.

I paid 45 at Lernerville for a reserved seat for the 50 grand to win show.  Well worth it.

The Natty open I paid 50 for a reserved seat and it was well worth it.

They both are expensive to attend.....just saying. 

I would rather go to one of these races than a regular show on a Saturday night with two tracks running.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

In essence if you take both series they are looking for a total of 20 + teams to hit all of there shows. Bill V. How many teams made all the woo shows in 2023 ? And also how many teams made all of the all-star races in 2023 ?

I think now that you have 2 series that want to have all the marbles this is only going to cost teams a lot more money. Teams ran the all stars for what main reason. COSTS. So let's buy out that series, come up with a charter, lol, and make teams spend thousands more. 

Can you call that good for the sport ?  Asking teams to add 6 figures to there budgets so for the teams that once said they can't afford to tow to CA and then spend time there. Remember the woo guys sitting in hotels ?

I've said it before, others have tryed to take down wrg and failed. Is HL really going to be good for sprint car racing or are the few competitive all star teams from last year going to up there budgets by 500 ?

HL already has as many good drivers as the outlaws do.  

Remember, they have the 5 time champion running with them. Plus two other woo drivers have jumped ship.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Pandora's box is being opened... we may never be able to come back to what we consider "normal".

As for me I want both to succeed. (I think) But so far cooperation doesn't seem likely from either side. It also appears we expect the fans to pick up the slack for the costs of the sport. Tread lightly because I can be priced out of attendance. 
 

I really am just looking forward to weekly Knoxville and weekly taxi cabs at tracks close to home. You guys can keep all these specials... I do like the free NOS at the WoO events though  

And WoO have a 10 time champion running for them. The NST had a very stacked roster including the greatest of all time Steve Kinser who had 20 WoO titles and was the defending champion. The USA had Kinser and Sammy and Kinser was also the defending champion at the time. There's no way to know the outcome because it's not 1989 or 2006 but so far, upstart series are 0-2.