Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

What has that 10 time champion done over the last few years in the points without Ricky? Seams to me he is not as good as the 5 time champion that is running with the HL.  David Gravel is the best the woo have and he is very very good as of right now. He will probably win the championship since Sweet is gone.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Charter system sounds too much like Nascar stuff for me. I feel like Larson and Sweet, especially larson is doing whatever he can to line his pockets up with money

Same guy who complained about the Chili Bowl payout and acted like him not racing it was a huge deal

This is the first of what I suspect will be other things that HL has offered that they know few if any other than the owners of the series will collect on. Don't dislike HL but this stinks. Smart business peolpe which most car owners are should see right through this.

There isn't any shame in doing what works for us as individuals.  The "support your local track" mantra is coming from the most rabid of fans.  Local shows mean different things to different people depending on location.  If someone in PA who lives within an hour of two or three weekly 410 shows says that I take it with a grain of salt.  Weekly shows where I live often consist of six to eight stock car and modified classes with A Mods or limited Late Models as the headliner.  While I appreciate their love of racing and passion for what they do I'd rather sit through another 3-0 Vikings Raiders game than go see stock cars and Modifieds.  410 dates are all special events within a few hundred miles of home.  
 

Truth be told I'd prefer Husets or Knoxville weekly over High Limit if I'm going to make a car trip.  Weekly racing close to home if it happens is a last minute decision when the weather is nice.  That might happen a couple times a year but nowhere near every week.

Honestly, until this thing shakes out and we see what the split fields look like and who if anyone steps up to fill the void I won't know how much live racing I will go to see.  No shame or guilt in that, neither WoO or HL group ve a damn about my account balance.  Why should I get riled up about theirs?  After all, when all is said and done we are talking about what we watch on television and our personal entertainment preferences which runs the full range from racing, pro sports and concerts.  

Stan Meissner

After thinking about it, it seems unneeded at this point. Just set a minimun level of attended races and boost the points fund for those regulars. Charters are a bad NASCAR idea. Why copy those clowns?

Here are my unsolicited thoughts on this:

• 410 sprint cars are awesome no matter what sanctioning group.
• I think the single biggest mistake Sweet is making is racing in his own series. Everyone is all smiles now in the off-season but let’s see how people feel about it ½ way through the season. You cannot remove the perceived bias, not to mention he is going to presumably win often including high dollar races.
• They created a new series to beat the Outlaws but proceeds to hire key staff members, pursue their drivers, and their tracks. We already had the best – it’s called the Outlaws.
• People complain about the Outlaw schedule then the new series has a stand alone weekend in Georgia, a race in Washington followed by PA in less than a week.
• They keep saying this is partially over the four race limit. Back in 2012, Jason Sides, I believe sued the Outlaws for this same thing as he ran an All Star show in Fargo and lost his benefits. I could be off slightly on the details but this has been out there since then, if not longer.
• The World of Outlaws are in the entertainment business via dirt track racing. Flo is a streaming company. I don’t think the Outlaws are perfect but they are in the world of racing. Flo is in the world of views/clicks.
• Why is it to move our sport to the “next level” do we have to crap all over our past? They gut the All Stars (I get they wanted the drivers), they are killing the Outlaws from within and then by direct competition. I know, they are a business, but we are the customer and our money talks.
• The dirt track world may have an outdated business model but where is all of the magical high payouts coming from? How will it be sustained? If the new series wants transparency, then where is this money coming from?
• They hate the establishment but then come up with a charter system that is the most “establishment“ thing to do. Maybe it is a great idea, I don’t know but just funny to me.
• Rico is awesome but funny though how he changed his mind after a meeting with Brad. Who knows, maybe this was his plan all along but you have to wonder how much he will get either directly or indirectly from the new series in addition to everything else. I would probably do the same as him but I am sure the vision had lots of extra $$$.
• Didn’t HL have 26 guys sign up for their mid-week race season last year? Did about 4 make it to each race? They have a great lineup but how long will it last? I am sure it won’t be quite the drop but it is a pretty aggressive schedule.
• Both series will struggle to fill the field in areas where 410s are not common. I am in that area.
• I keep hearing about fan engagement. I have been watching the Outlaws for my entire life. I really never had a complaint of fan engagement. I love the Outlaw shows. I always knew it was going to be the best drivers and usually a great show. There have been some stinkers over the years.
• Time trials, heats, dashes, etc. are typically blah races. We all go for the main event. When you go out for dinner, the bread is just a tease or to tide you over.
• Drivers hate inverts, fans want full inverts. There is no perfect line up system.
• Most drivers are excited about the split. They all have a higher chance to make more money.
• The Outlaws survived USA and NST. This feels different. There is way more money and momentum. This is like war. It will drag on and people will get hurt along the way.
• My perception is Brad, Kyle, and Flo put themselves at the top of this pyramid to make the most money and be in control. The drivers will win in the short term. Meanwhile, the fans are going to be the losers paying higher ticket fees for a diluted field.  

That’s enough from me. 

You are spot on.

One thing you didn't list is at least the WoO didn't have to buy an established series to destroy it.  HL needed to get Eldora to have a premier event so they could sign up other tracks and eliminate some competion.

Who are most that are signed up? Did they really have a choice? Big difference between signing up and surviving the year.

Plus....we are headed into some of the toughest econimic times ever. Takes a lot of money to race and attend races.

I wish one of the computer gurus would figure out just how many miles a team from Ohio would put on the hauler to run the whole series.

Because the series is owned by a NASCAR driver who doesn't exactly care for racing NASCAR but loves the money and a guy who couldn't make it in NASCAR who drives for a guy who was fairly successful in NASCAR. 

I don't care about any of that.  When they are in a sprint they are a sprintcar driver.  

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

Does anyone use common sense? The whole "next level" thing is a sales pitch.

"Hey, come check out our product... its exactly the same thing as you've been watching!!" Fans reaponse would be, "Well, why wouldn't I just watch what I've been watching if it's exactly the same." Not a great way to start. 

Some seem to have consternation that they went after Outlaw drivers, officials, announcers, etc... If you wanted to start your own business in whatever field you currently work in, wouldn't you try to hire some people who you know could add value to your company via their labor, skill, knowledge, etc? You wouldn't?? You would only go recruit people outside of your current company or hire new employees? Really?

Lastly, I think there are some more dollars available to drivers, teams and racetracks (?) via streaming. It seems High Limit was created to try and take advantage of this. Some might applaud the initiative these people have taken. After all this is America. You see someone offering a product and think, "I can do it better," so you take a risk and try. When you do that, you're out to make a profit, not do it for charity.

This'll get sorted out over time. We'll have to see how it all plays out.

**By the way, I'm using a figurative "you" based on the summaries of these threads.**

To the miles thing. Since you said Ohio, I started in Columbus, did the entire HL schedule in order from track to track. A little over 17,000 miles. Of note, Learnerville July 23, then out west to CA, OR, and WA, for August, then back to Port Royal September 5th. That west coast trip is a bunch of miles.

ON EDIT: I forgot to get us back to Columbus (from Texas) so add another 1100 miles. So 18,000 not counting hotels and such. Plus or minus some of course.

What does a hauler get for gas mileage? At what, $4.00 a gallon?

Not much compared to an engine.

The costs of running a business can be written off so transportation is a deductable expense.

Announcers change employers all the time as do the workers. Two big name football announcers moved from Fox to ESPN.

The Broadcast TV networks make a lot of money. The regional sports networks used to until people started cutting the chord. They no longer do and they went bankrupt last March. DirtVision and Flo have been in streaming business for awhile and are likely making money. I am sure they are operating to make money on racing and that is why the shows are fairly simple productions. They all need to make improvements in audio quality control though.

The teams/owners will be fine in the end. We may pay more for tickets but ticket prices are up everywhere along with parking, food, drinks, etc. Sucks indeed.

Let's go Sprint Car Racing!

Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!

What I am tired of hearing is Brad Sweet and Kyle Larson talking about HL. You have hired people to run your series let them take the lead and run it. If they want to be competitors it is time to step back from putting your face in front of every camera.

What I don't like about the Charter system is it going to become a top secret society with the charter owners as you we will not know what each of them are getting paid as there is not a set tow money or point fund and  I am sure they will not make that public knowledge. Then the comment about Sweet saying in the future we could let a long term car owner join in year 3 or 4 and give them a charter where other teams that ran both years do not get one if they did not finish in the top of the points.

The more I learn about this deal the more it disgusts me. The NASCARization of Sprint car racing is here folks.

To answer your first question....no, especially on this board. Guys like Murphy and FIXXXER, and a few others, are such huge Outlaw homers that anything the HL series announces or tries to promote, they instantly turn it around and claim it's being done for pure greed/money and come up with these fairytale scenarios in order to bash them (for example,"each team will have to hire their own lawyer" .... question: can their newly-hired lawyers wash the car, change tires, sweep the trailer, clean the trailer toilet, etc when they are not locked in some hypothetical courtoom "battle" somewhere?) 

When in fact, reality is hitting them in the face and they can't stand it. Even though several good teams have not announced still, HL's roster is already better than the WoO, and they know it. HL has the reigning WoO and All Star champs, Rico, the white 57 for maybe half the races - with the 57 being one of the top rides in the country, and many others. They hate the fact that the WoO limits their drivers to just 4 races outside the series, one of the dumbest rules in sprint car racing.

HL teams can run as many as they want, and I can't wait until one of the HL teams goes in and wins a WoO crown jewell race, Can't wait.

They are also upset that several WoO employees were receptive enough to be hired away by HL including the best race director in the business and their number 2 announcer.

You guys will drum-up any bs fairytale just to try to make HL look bad, when deep down inside you know they will be successful.

- Just my opinion -

I agree with this post. In my younger days, I thought that it would be cool if sprint car racing got really big and that more people appreciated it. As I got older and NASCAR went steadily downhill (in my estimation), I realized that if that happened it would likely change the sport in ways that were not all good. NASCAR is the model and also the cautionary tale.  We don't need our sport to go "big time" and all that that entails. The fans and smaller teams and tracks are likely to be the losers in this whole deal.

I can't tell if you have confused me with someone else, or I'm just not explaining myself well enough. I'm not a big fan of the WoO. I feel that over the years, the WoO has caused the decline of local sprint car racing. On top of that, their programs have mostly stopped being about competitive racing and more about being an "event". If people like that, good for them. I don't much care for it.

The lawyer comment isn't about HL. It's about HL's charter idea. I feel it's too vague, will be very complicated and will cause legal issues among owners. Think this through. You're going to see teams chasing an undetermined pot of gold. When they get there and it's not what they expected, what happens? Another example. Your team right on the border between 4th and 5th in points. 4th equals pot of gold, 5th equals sad trombones. What happens when there's a call that doesn't go your way? Recall the race where Sheldon got out of his car and threw his helme because he didn't get to restart the race. Soon you'll be filing an appeal to the ruling or wha they call that in NASCAR.

Calling someone a homer or whatever is counterproductive to any serious discussion. I guess Ill just ask if you don't follow where I'm coming from, ask and I'll explain if that's what it takes to keep things civil. We're on this forum because we have a common bond of liking to watch sprint car racing. please don't paint with such a broad brush that we lose that focus.

If you are in an area without strong local sprint car racing this is probably true. For  me only about 20% of the races I attend will be sanctioned by anyone. And contrarey to what some think there will be good ones and snoozers in both with a higher percentage of good ones being non sactioned.