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Keg1954
December 17, 2017 at 11:24:41 PM
Joined: 03/16/2013
Posts: 12
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How many wins do you think a Larson or Schatz could get in a WoO season driving the Knipp or Destiny car?




motorhead748
December 18, 2017 at 08:07:54 AM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 414
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I'm no nothing of the caliber of equipment on the knipp ride but if you put Larson in the destiny car with Silvia turning the screws they win as many as they have time to run. 



egras
December 18, 2017 at 03:46:29 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 1746
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Posted By: Keg1954 on December 17 2017 at 11:24:41 PM

How many wins do you think a Larson or Schatz could get in a WoO season driving the Knipp or Destiny car?



Agree with motorhead.  Kyle with Silva and Schatz with Warner and the car starts winning.  

 

If you took each driver and put them in the seat now, with crew in place, Kyle wins more easily. But that is JMO!!!



blazer00
December 18, 2017 at 09:33:18 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 1481
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Stepping in to those two cars the way they are currently and they both will have a tough go. Maybe even flounder to a degree. For those saying bring their crews along, well that makes both rides not the current rides that they are, and changes the intent of the original question.



egras
December 18, 2017 at 10:02:13 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 1746
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Posted By: blazer00 on December 18 2017 at 09:33:18 PM

Stepping in to those two cars the way they are currently and they both will have a tough go. Maybe even flounder to a degree. For those saying bring their crews along, well that makes both rides not the current rides that they are, and changes the intent of the original question.



blazer--the original question was could they win if they put them in the cars.  I think both of our answers were pretty fair since it was not clear whether or not we knew what crews were being used.  Smile

 

I think topics like this make for good debate----especially during the long offseason   



egras
December 18, 2017 at 10:05:56 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 1746
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Posted By: Keg1954 on December 17 2017 at 11:24:41 PM

How many wins do you think a Larson or Schatz could get in a WoO season driving the Knipp or Destiny car?



So---It would probably be fair to answer his original question:

 

I've said all along if Kyle ran full time he would eclipse Donny in overall wins.  So, if both teams bring their crews along, Kyle wins 18 and Donny wins 12

 

If they both just jump in the cars the way they are, keep the original crews, Kyle wins 8 and Donny wins 3.  (I think the Destiny car can win as Paul ran tough in a few races later on in the season)

 

 



blazer00
December 19, 2017 at 01:04:42 AM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 1481
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Posted By: egras on December 18 2017 at 10:05:56 PM

So---It would probably be fair to answer his original question:

 

I've said all along if Kyle ran full time he would eclipse Donny in overall wins.  So, if both teams bring their crews along, Kyle wins 18 and Donny wins 12

 

If they both just jump in the cars the way they are, keep the original crews, Kyle wins 8 and Donny wins 3.  (I think the Destiny car can win as Paul ran tough in a few races later on in the season)

 

 



Bringing the crews along is one thing. So how about the budgets? You going to have them bring that along, too? Might just as well change the numbers on their current sprinters 15 and 57 to the numbers 13 & 4......Smile  There is no fair comparison between the Destiny car and the Knipp car.    And Kyle does not beat Donny over an entire season even in equal equipment, anyhow.



motorhead748
December 19, 2017 at 05:44:52 AM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 414
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Posted By: blazer00 on December 19 2017 at 01:04:42 AM

Bringing the crews along is one thing. So how about the budgets? You going to have them bring that along, too? Might just as well change the numbers on their current sprinters 15 and 57 to the numbers 13 & 4......Smile  There is no fair comparison between the Destiny car and the Knipp car.    And Kyle does not beat Donny over an entire season even in equal equipment, anyhow.



ive the utmost respect for Donny but how many times did Kyle beat him in the handful of races he ran this year? 



motorhead748
December 19, 2017 at 05:53:29 AM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 414
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Posted By: blazer00 on December 18 2017 at 09:33:18 PM

Stepping in to those two cars the way they are currently and they both will have a tough go. Maybe even flounder to a degree. For those saying bring their crews along, well that makes both rides not the current rides that they are, and changes the intent of the original question.



i do not know the intent of the original question but all that was mentioned was "car".  I'll stand by what I said and add he might do it albeit not as often without silva. He proved that when he jumped in the 17, in a spare car that had been pushed aside, at eagle with a makeshift crew. 



blazer00
December 19, 2017 at 10:56:07 AM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 1481
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Posted By: motorhead748 on December 19 2017 at 05:44:52 AM

ive the utmost respect for Donny but how many times did Kyle beat him in the handful of races he ran this year? 



Twice......one WoO event at Eagle and a preliminary feature at the Nationals, both wins from the pole. A handful of races is a far cry from what it takes to compete on the WoO for the entire season.



racefanigan
December 19, 2017 at 11:04:54 AM
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 80
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I noticed the post got deleted, but according to Sprint Source, Kyle beat Donny 3 times they were on the track together, Donny beat Kyle 4 times.

Volusia: Kyle 2nd Donny 1st

Placerville: Kyle 24th Donny 12th

Lawrenceburg: Kyle 2nd Donny 3rd

Eagle: Kyle 1st Donny 5th

Oshweken: Kyle 4th Donny 2nd

Knoxville Qual night: Kyle 1st Donny 2nd

Knoxville Sat: Kyle 2nd Donny 1st.

 

Not sure what happened at Placerville, but looks like a DNF to me. Still a firm believer if Kyle hadn't smoked the fence coming to the white at Knoxville he would have had a better shot at that one, though not entirely sure he would have gotten it done. Anywho, the stats could have easily been reversed. They're both just damn good.



Keyboard Jockey
December 19, 2017 at 11:20:45 AM
Joined: 04/16/2014
Posts: 222
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Posted By: racefanigan on December 19 2017 at 11:04:54 AM

I noticed the post got deleted, but according to Sprint Source, Kyle beat Donny 3 times they were on the track together, Donny beat Kyle 4 times.

Volusia: Kyle 2nd Donny 1st

Placerville: Kyle 24th Donny 12th

Lawrenceburg: Kyle 2nd Donny 3rd

Eagle: Kyle 1st Donny 5th

Oshweken: Kyle 4th Donny 2nd

Knoxville Qual night: Kyle 1st Donny 2nd

Knoxville Sat: Kyle 2nd Donny 1st.

 

Not sure what happened at Placerville, but looks like a DNF to me. Still a firm believer if Kyle hadn't smoked the fence coming to the white at Knoxville he would have had a better shot at that one, though not entirely sure he would have gotten it done. Anywho, the stats could have easily been reversed. They're both just damn good.



Placerville Kyle was putting on a show, it was a wreckers or checkers type of race. I dont recall what position he was in but he was flying. He spun once and kept it going and then he ended up on the ramp out of the track and stopped, a caution never came out so he was done. Watching a sprint car race from the infield at Placerville should be on everyone's bucket list! 



motorhead748
December 19, 2017 at 11:44:08 AM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 414
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Posted By: blazer00 on December 19 2017 at 10:56:07 AM

Twice......one WoO event at Eagle and a preliminary feature at the Nationals, both wins from the pole. A handful of races is a far cry from what it takes to compete on the WoO for the entire season.



kyle did not start on the pole at eagle, seems like it was 8th and Donny started in front of him. And you are forgetting about lawrenceburg. 

I'll somewhat agree with you that Kyle may not and probaly likely wouldn't out run Donny the first year but give him a year or 2 and it changes. The sad part is we will likely never see it. Kyle said on the "open red" podcast that running the full WoO schedule is certainly on his agenda but alluded that it's likely 10 years down the road... will Donny still be the guy then?



racefanigan
December 19, 2017 at 12:13:13 PM
Joined: 07/31/2007
Posts: 80
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This message was edited on December 19, 2017 at 12:48:06 PM by racefanigan

According to Sprint Source once again, here are the starting positions.

Volusia: Donny P1- win, Kyle P15-2nd

Placerville: Donny P25-12th, Kyle P16-24th

Lawrencburg: Kyle P9-2nd, Donny P1-3rd

Eagle: Kyle P6-win, Donny P2-5th

Oshweken: Donny P1-2nd, Kyle P7-4th

Knox qual night: Kyle P1-win, Donny P6-2nd

Knox sat night: Donny P2-win, Kyle P9-2nd

If were solely looking at these 7 races, it sure looks like Larson was stronger than Donny was when they were on the track together, as he only went backwards the one time he didn't finish. Donny went backwards 3 times. Not taking anything away from Donny beacuse the man gets it done in the end, and in the end is all that matters. He is still the best sprint car driver that I have personally seen for sure, across the board. But you can't take anything away from Larson either. As far as having what it takes to run the full tour, he would have the backing no doubt, he would have the crew, and for a couple years there, maybe '11-'12, he ran upwards of 130 races a year, which is 40 more than the outlaws ran last year, so he knows what it takes to run that many nights. If anyone could do it, it would be him, or Maybe Gravel, if they get the consistency down.

Like posted above, its sad that likely by the time Kyle is able to tackle the full tour, Donny will probably not be what he is today, but we won't know until that time comes, and who knows, maybe theres a new Donny Schatz on the tour at that time.



motorhead748
December 19, 2017 at 01:17:26 PM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 414
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Posted By: racefanigan on December 19 2017 at 12:13:13 PM

According to Sprint Source once again, here are the starting positions.

Volusia: Donny P1- win, Kyle P15-2nd

Placerville: Donny P25-12th, Kyle P16-24th

Lawrencburg: Kyle P9-2nd, Donny P1-3rd

Eagle: Kyle P6-win, Donny P2-5th

Oshweken: Donny P1-2nd, Kyle P7-4th

Knox qual night: Kyle P1-win, Donny P6-2nd

Knox sat night: Donny P2-win, Kyle P9-2nd

If were solely looking at these 7 races, it sure looks like Larson was stronger than Donny was when they were on the track together, as he only went backwards the one time he didn't finish. Donny went backwards 3 times. Not taking anything away from Donny beacuse the man gets it done in the end, and in the end is all that matters. He is still the best sprint car driver that I have personally seen for sure, across the board. But you can't take anything away from Larson either. As far as having what it takes to run the full tour, he would have the backing no doubt, he would have the crew, and for a couple years there, maybe '11-'12, he ran upwards of 130 races a year, which is 40 more than the outlaws ran last year, so he knows what it takes to run that many nights. If anyone could do it, it would be him, or Maybe Gravel, if they get the consistency down.

Like posted above, its sad that likely by the time Kyle is able to tackle the full tour, Donny will probably not be what he is today, but we won't know until that time comes, and who knows, maybe theres a new Donny Schatz on the tour at that time.



^Thank you, you did a much better job than me pointing out what I thought was the case.  



blazer00
December 19, 2017 at 02:28:36 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 1481
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Posted By: motorhead748 on December 19 2017 at 11:44:08 AM

kyle did not start on the pole at eagle, seems like it was 8th and Donny started in front of him. And you are forgetting about lawrenceburg. 

I'll somewhat agree with you that Kyle may not and probaly likely wouldn't out run Donny the first year but give him a year or 2 and it changes. The sad part is we will likely never see it. Kyle said on the "open red" podcast that running the full WoO schedule is certainly on his agenda but alluded that it's likely 10 years down the road... will Donny still be the guy then?



Thanks....I stand corrected.....Kyle started 6th at Eagle.



blazer00
December 19, 2017 at 02:45:10 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 1481
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Posted By: racefanigan on December 19 2017 at 12:13:13 PM

According to Sprint Source once again, here are the starting positions.

Volusia: Donny P1- win, Kyle P15-2nd

Placerville: Donny P25-12th, Kyle P16-24th

Lawrencburg: Kyle P9-2nd, Donny P1-3rd

Eagle: Kyle P6-win, Donny P2-5th

Oshweken: Donny P1-2nd, Kyle P7-4th

Knox qual night: Kyle P1-win, Donny P6-2nd

Knox sat night: Donny P2-win, Kyle P9-2nd

If were solely looking at these 7 races, it sure looks like Larson was stronger than Donny was when they were on the track together, as he only went backwards the one time he didn't finish. Donny went backwards 3 times. Not taking anything away from Donny beacuse the man gets it done in the end, and in the end is all that matters. He is still the best sprint car driver that I have personally seen for sure, across the board. But you can't take anything away from Larson either. As far as having what it takes to run the full tour, he would have the backing no doubt, he would have the crew, and for a couple years there, maybe '11-'12, he ran upwards of 130 races a year, which is 40 more than the outlaws ran last year, so he knows what it takes to run that many nights. If anyone could do it, it would be him, or Maybe Gravel, if they get the consistency down.

Like posted above, its sad that likely by the time Kyle is able to tackle the full tour, Donny will probably not be what he is today, but we won't know until that time comes, and who knows, maybe theres a new Donny Schatz on the tour at that time.



If Larson has a trait that is hard to overcome, it's this. Like Jac, Larson doesn't seem to know when to run for position. Too often he hits a wall or jumps a cushion or misjudges a slide job because he doesn't know how to slow down to go fast. Rico is much the same way. Larson cost his truck owner a second place finish at Eldora a few years ago because he wasn't smart enough to bring the truck home. Instead he was balls out and hit the wall what?......3 or 4 times (or more) trying to run down the leader. Even after he damaged the truck he wasn't smart enough to back off and take what he could get. Sorry, but for all the skill Larson does possess, I really doubt he'll ever have the smarts in a sprint car that Schatz has. Larson is a gasser, and while exciting, gassers do get in to situations that cost positions. That is why in the long run Schatz drives away from him.



motorhead748
December 19, 2017 at 04:03:31 PM
Joined: 08/05/2010
Posts: 414
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Posted By: blazer00 on December 19 2017 at 02:45:10 PM

If Larson has a trait that is hard to overcome, it's this. Like Jac, Larson doesn't seem to know when to run for position. Too often he hits a wall or jumps a cushion or misjudges a slide job because he doesn't know how to slow down to go fast. Rico is much the same way. Larson cost his truck owner a second place finish at Eldora a few years ago because he wasn't smart enough to bring the truck home. Instead he was balls out and hit the wall what?......3 or 4 times (or more) trying to run down the leader. Even after he damaged the truck he wasn't smart enough to back off and take what he could get. Sorry, but for all the skill Larson does possess, I really doubt he'll ever have the smarts in a sprint car that Schatz has. Larson is a gasser, and while exciting, gassers do get in to situations that cost positions. That is why in the long run Schatz drives away from him.



You are exactly right.... he doesn't race for position, he is there to win, and that's what racing and especially sprint cars are about. 



Johnny Utah
December 19, 2017 at 04:48:05 PM
Joined: 07/15/2014
Posts: 542
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Posted By: blazer00 on December 19 2017 at 02:45:10 PM

If Larson has a trait that is hard to overcome, it's this. Like Jac, Larson doesn't seem to know when to run for position. Too often he hits a wall or jumps a cushion or misjudges a slide job because he doesn't know how to slow down to go fast. Rico is much the same way. Larson cost his truck owner a second place finish at Eldora a few years ago because he wasn't smart enough to bring the truck home. Instead he was balls out and hit the wall what?......3 or 4 times (or more) trying to run down the leader. Even after he damaged the truck he wasn't smart enough to back off and take what he could get. Sorry, but for all the skill Larson does possess, I really doubt he'll ever have the smarts in a sprint car that Schatz has. Larson is a gasser, and while exciting, gassers do get in to situations that cost positions. That is why in the long run Schatz drives away from him.



Using the truck race at Eldora from a few years ago as the main piece of evidence that Schatz would drive away from him is pretty weak. I think that was his only truck race that season. He wasn't there to take what he could get. He was there to try and get a win. 



Keg1954
December 19, 2017 at 05:44:19 PM
Joined: 03/16/2013
Posts: 12
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This message was edited on December 19, 2017 at 05:46:33 PM by Keg1954
Reply to:
Posted By: blazer00 on December 18 2017 at 09:33:18 PM

Stepping in to those two cars the way they are currently and they both will have a tough go. Maybe even flounder to a degree. For those saying bring their crews along, well that makes both rides not the current rides that they are, and changes the intent of the original question.



I guess what I meant is if you put either of those drivers in those cars AS IS could they make them competitive? 





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