Forum: Racing From The Past (go)
Moderators: Racing From The Past

Just about every pass now in dirt track racing is a slide job. Back in thee 60's and early 70's that was considered dirty driving. Harold Leeps's owner ,Raymond Cates, was suspended for 2 weeks in 1969 for hitting Benny Taylor for putting slide jobs on Harold. That same night when Harold and Benny were coming into the pits after a heat race Harold ran into the back of Benny's car to let him know that he didn't like being passed that way. When you passed a car back then you stayed in your lane. What does everybody else think of slide jobs? If David grace reads this I sure would like to know what he has to say.

Ray

Guess that the cars are more even today via cookie cutter frames and most all have a ground thumpin motor, an example is ASCS series , everybody stuff is good and all have store bought motors and the lightest cars allowed with all the lightweight pieces on them and that makes the playing field pretty equal, if you draw a bad number/pill more than likely your staying at the back UNLESS you take some chances and slide job your competition or attrition comes into play from bad luck by your competitors , Personally I think it is a bad deal and don't really care for the Slide Jobs but it is the way of the younger drivers these days. You get noticed by going to the front and winning and moving on to the next level is how your achieve that and I know it is not right but that is the mentality of today's young and up and coming racer, plus most don't have to foot the bill themselves so they have no clue of costs and other things.

I was just at the Chili Bowl last week and it is an Iconic type race now but I call that week of racing "Cut Throat" racing at it's best, not many rough driving calls made during that week and some get mad and try and retaliate when issues happen and they are on the bad end of it but it is a race that is on a National Stage and drivers looking to get noticed or have a shot at winning it will do whatever it takes , drive through ya , spin ya out if needed , run you up the track and into the wall or whatever to get to the front.

I had a hard time about 5 yrs. ago of realizing that the garage built motor is a thing of the past,when competeing against all these store bought motors with all the technology that is put in them from R & D and Dyno time and all the other stuff you pay the engine builder for his knowledge of how to make the power plant go fast. I kept trying and trying to run a motor that had not been built and dynoed and realized I was falling further and further behind and then went the Engine Builder route several years back and noticed that we started running up front more often.

J.D.

That is the best answer that I have heard about the need for slide jobs. As they say now "Cubic Dollars not Cubic Inches" Mike Peters and I talked about how hard it was for a young driver racing against the veteran drivers. he told me that most of the good drivers would run try you out,like running as close as they could get to you with out hitting to see if you got excited or stayed under control. After they found out that you could be trusted they raced you clean. Some of the other drivers would just run all over you because they did not like a new driver out running them. When we used to run the 6 cyl. against the v-8s some of the drivers could not stand getting out run by a modified and would run all over Mike. At the Fayetteville AR race in August 1975 Mike lead all 50 laps against some real good supers. James Eubanks finished 2nd in a super and stayed on Mike's bumper the whole race but would not knock him out of the race, he just said that he was waiting for Mike to make a mistake and he did not. Larry Coleman was in the 17 and passed a super driver and this driver did not have the self control that James had and put a slide on Larry in the next corner with no chance of clearing him and took both cars out. Just the difference in the drivers.

Ray

Ray, Your right on the difference in drivers and the word "Respect" comes to mind for me as well, not a lot of it out there today for their fellow competitor/racer , except from some of the drivers that have been in it for a while now.

I think another issue in today's racing is no one wants to finish second, but someone has to and it creates a lot of issues with younger drivers, everyone wants to win every week and all the time and will do what it takes to accomplish that via spending $$$ and getting the boy/girl driving school lessons and so on and when that does not happen or they have very little success they move on to something else and I guess it is like a check in/check out system if they are not on top in the system, They see what they spend and well the son/daughter is not having much success and the family accountant calls up and says man spending a bunch of $$$$ , are you really havin fun and if not on top then thoughts turn to time to quit this and move on to something else. See it all the time now it seems.

Had a friend in Texas that ran a Oval Track parts business up until about 4 yrs. ago and he told me a great statement one time. "All you need to race today is a cell phone and a credit card" , you can get it all done with those two items, he has had Parents call him up and order a complete car put together at Eagle Chassis and some spares and also ask about where to get his boy in a driving school ASAP and order a motor to be shipped to where the car is built and installed , so the boy could go to school in one week and be ready to race the next weekend, all because Jr. wanted to be a race car driver and just the bill from my friends end was about $24,500 for a car with some spares and tools needed to get to the track and a new trailer and a used toter home that ran about $85,000 purchased from him, he was not sure what the 360 ASCS motor ran , but figured in the $30 G's range and then driving school with a top of the line package would probably run a couple of grand,plus plane ticket and all to get him there , so like you said in your first statement with the right amount of Cubic Dollars it can be done very easily today, but still will show up eventually if the talent to be a wheel man is not there, but I guess they can look back one day and say I drove a race car. J.D.

I remember being told that with the wings and tires that are run now all that you had to do was just get your car close and have a heavy right foot and you would be competitive. That is why the wingless cars are making a comeback. The wing does make it a lot safer for the drivers but it also makes the driver look better than he is. When the Small wings were put on the 100" supers with no front wing I was told that the cars got a lot easier to drive so I am sure that with the big top wing and front wing it does get easier.

Ray

They told you correct Ray. Keep er straight , don't lose momentum or scrub speed by moving the steering wheel and stomp the loud pedal and that is pretty much the winged deal in a nutsheel, does get a little trickier on dry slick but that is when the drivers really do show up and the ones who are not that talented, well they fade to the tail at the finish.

I am to on the wingless bandwagon and plan on trying it next year if I can still afford to race , tired of the locked down no passing racing where motor means a big part of the equation.

Ya know also they say they are safer with a wing , probably agree to a point but now with these seats now that they have and Hans devices and other safety features drivers have in the cockpit/office, not so sure if that is the case anymore, sure it might slow down a flip some but heck I have seen Top Wings fly off after the first flip because they are built so light these days and with the first touch of something , they are gone and broke away from the car and also ya cannot tell me your gonna tear up less with a Winged Car than a Non Winged Car, would argue with you all day on that as I have been there and done that and ran both Non Wing 100" cars and Winged Sprint Cars and tore up just as much stuff when both got over on their lids, Seen a guy at Lawton Speedway back in 07 if I remember jump a RR tire and start flipping entering Turn 3 and not stop till he landed up and over the pipe fence in the Pit Area at Lawton Speedway , farthest I have ever seena car flip at the place and he had a 4X4 Top Wing and Nose Wing and sure did not seem to slow him down one bit , heck if ya get right down to it , you automatically save about $500 as that is what a 4x4 Top Wing and Nose Wing will run ya these days.

Really want to try the Non Winged deal next year with this new E Sprint Class they have started with a Sport Mod type motor here in Okla. ,just hope the promoters are smart enough to stay with a cheaper cost motor and NOT change rules and keep them the same for a while and I just might be able to still afford to race and have fun , but with gas predictions to $5 Gal. in the future, not sure about anything. J.D.

I might start going to races again if they get ride of the dust and the wings. One of the last times that I went it must have been 20002 or'03 there were 2 young guns were really putting on a show in the heat race, it was a good race and an old time crew chief next to me said " ya it was ok but if they took the wings off they would not be so brave" I guess he was right. I keep thinking about watching Harold Leep and Dale Reed racing and passing each other for over 20 laps without touching. You can't go back.

Ray

Your right , Ya cannot go back.

Sure want to try the non wing deal and have some fun again , enjoy watching the non wing cars better. Some say going to the Non Wing E Sprint is step down and that maybe true, but if I want to keep racing and TRY and be competitive then it is the class for me down the road.

I don't think that it would be a step down. It takes more talent to drive a non wing car and it is supposed to be easier on all your equipment. It evens the playing field out not the driver with the best engine. I read somewhere that Ron Schuman won a non wing race on 7 cylinders.

Ray

Ray, I agree, it does take more talent to get the non wing deal around the track, but with a less horsepowered motor like these E Sprints have , some think if your not going faster then it's not a good thing. Oh Well???. to each is his own.

I hear ya on the saving of the equipment , especially the motor and the driveline components as well, not as much stress on them without those Air Foils.

The way they race now days started way back. That is one reason that I did not follow my father into dirt track oval racing. The theroy was if I can not beat you, wreck you. My father always said that second always paid more than last. Also your day will always come. Also if you are known to most always finish and bring the car home in one piece you can find a car to drive. A sponsor is a little easier to court when one can show results. As I said I did not go circle track racing, I went drag racing instead and now if I feel like it I go. If nothing bad happens I do not have to work all week to make the next show.

Now do not get it wrong I still love to see a good show at the local dirt track. I also know and talk to some of the local owners and drivers. Ialso still keep in contact with some of the guys that my dad raced against. Those guys are getting to be few and far between. The sixties bunch are leaving faster and faster.

I remember back in the 70's at Golden Belt Speedway in Great Bend, Kansas seeing the first time Dick Hendershot driving #16 FORD ever did the slide job on anyone. He was racing against another driver who for several laps through 3 and 4 was getting slammed (sliding) from the inside by that driver (over driving himself) who was using 16 as a way to keep on the track as he could not hold the corners as well as Dick. 16 handeled very well in the corners as my dad, Vernon Schrater, set it up to do so as well as Dick being a great corner driver. Finally I saw Dick (after several laps of punishment) slam on his breaks and the other guy went sliding past (missing Dick) and hitting the guard rail. Dick did then slam the other driver. I want you to know that Dick Hendershot was one of the kindest, friendly and clean drivers (and most competative) I have ever known. I guess we all get a bit frustrated sometimes.

sschrater, Your right ya can only just take so much.

Drivers today like to push the envelope every lap with slide jobs, runnin you up the track, but what is really something anymore is on starts of the race , the pace lap is sometimes very interesting to watch, with all the wheel banging and darting at each other going on trying to get the best position on the track and false/jumping the starts with guys playing mind games with each other and so on.

Comes back to the Even playing field with cars and motors and everyone wants to win and NOBODY wants to run 2nd , that mentality is that 2nd Place ,well it is the first loser.

I will have to state that at Port City we have some of the best racing around. Aarron lemmons is the promotor and he keeps the track racy all night long. ( just ask OKC12) We always have 2 grooves and if you have the balls to race up by the guardrail you can whether your Non Wing or wing. Alot of the races you will see the slide jobs done correctly and some very exciting times throughout the race. Port does not have the one lane racing and believes in having balls to the walls fun ....We start racing last week of March and invite all the OKC gang out to watch...YOu all take care and come up the turn pike to PCR...