Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

"More cars equals more time"

If you know that like everyone should, why have 4 classes on a night when it is VERY likely that you will have a big field of 410's?

"In 2014 the average time for the final checkered flag was 10:55 for weekly shows."       

Does the management consider 10:55pm a good time to get done?      I don't, its too late for an average.   On the worst of nights, a weekly show should be done by 11pm.   On a good night (minimal yellows and reds) it should be done at 10pm.   

7-10 pm should be your goal for running a program.   If the problem is too many cars, fix the problem. Its not hard to look at the schedule and see the nights that you shouldn't have an extra class.

As a parent of young boys that likes to attend races, I have a hard time taking kids along knowing there is a good chance that the races will run late (after 10:30pm is late, after 11pm is waaay too late, after 12am and I wouldn't come back if I was only a casual fan).     I also have a hard time leaving my kids at home while I attend races so in the end I don't go to as many races as I would like to.

I hate to say it but sometimes I wish that dirt tracks in the midwest had curfews.    It would force the tracks to do a better job at getting the show done at a decent time.

Go to Attica. Green flag on heat 1 waves at 7:45 sharp every week and there is no intermission. The next race hits the track before the cars from the prior race are off the track!! They run the 410s first and you are almost always on the road around 10:30.

I say give it a Rest! They don't usually last until 12 or 12:30, It was the first night of the year. Jeeeeez!!!

15 bucks for 98 winged sprints! You Knoxville people are so spoiled! I was at both NSL races this weekend and really enjoyed the Knoxville race. Cut Knoxville some slack, first night of the year with 98 winged cars, I knew it would be a late night knowing the amount of sprints alone. I look forward to making the 6 hr drive back for Memorial Day weekend.

Amen, Hallelujah !!! NAILED IT!!!!!

You are nuts. How many times have you been to the races with 4 classes be over at 10:00?? A good night is over at 11. 

That's the point.

If you can't get 4 classes done by 10-10:30 consistently, you shouldn't have 4 classes.

Late nights do not encourage the avg Joe off of the street to bring his family to the race track.

This is a hilarious thread. Everybody trying to figure out how to make the races more suitable for the average joe or the new fan. Knoxville doesn't give a crap about the average fan. They have the same systemic porblems they had 20 years ago. If they cared they would have changed by now. Its all about the Nationals, period. Great facility, great field of cars, great emergency crew, but to say they are worried about the average joe is comical. I have said it before, if they lose tradition, they are in big big trouble. 

Free tickets and the amount of entertainment they get for the cost are the only thing that encourage the average Joe off the street to attend with their family.

To get people to the track for the first time, either (1) they get brought by a family member who's a fan, (2) they get brought by a friend who's a fan or (3) they get free tickets off the radio or some other way.

To get them to come back, all you have to do is put on a good show (ending time has no bearing since most have no idea what they are missing, if they leave at 9:00 and didn't see one feature, most are ok with it, they got entertainment (and that's all they came for)).  Those people that leave early will go home and it's really up to their kids whether or not they attend again (if the kids enjoyed it, they will be back no matter what part(s) of the racing program they might miss if it goes late.

Heck, take a look at the concession lines on Free Kids's nights.  The lines are long and always busy (even when the racing is happening).  These are not FANS, these are the average Joe.  They don't know what they are missing, so it's not a big deal to them to miss it (the same thing happens at baseball, basketball and football games, only the hardcore fans don't get up and go to the bathroom or concession stand during the game (but a lot of those average Joe's will go stand in line for 30 minutes for a bathroom and they stand another 20 getting a hotdog while missing 1/4 of the game).

Do most tracks (including Knoxville) need to work on tightening up their show?  Yes, but only the hardcore fans are the ones that really notice.  A College FB game is pushing over 4 hours for just the game nowadays and you add in tailgating and the like and it's a 12-14 hour marathon for a lot of folks.  I doubt those average Joe's that are willing to go do that in Ames or Iowa City see a 5 hour show as a big deal.

That's an interesting perspective, and I agree with parts.

However, you could also compare to baseball. Only the hardcore fan is going to know specifically how much longer the game is taking than normal, and only the hardcore fan will understand the nuances of why it is taking longer than usual. But if the average fan just has a general sense of "wow, this is taking forever, how long until it's over", they may not come again. It's a problem for baseball that's finally being addressed now.

I don't think one late night is a big deal at all, and if this wasn't Knoxville, this thread would be dead long ago, but it's definitely something for the track to be aware of and try to improve upon.

I used to go every weekend to a dirt race somewhere. When I was younger I couldn't tell you what time the races got over and didn't really care how late it was. 

Got married had kids and when we wanted to go to the races got a baby sitter, usually a grandparent. Problem was when these shows always ran late and your getting home at 2 AM or later thats an issue. I quit going to the races because I didn't want to put the grand parents in that situation anymore.

Kids are older and we all go to the races once in a while but its a select few shows. And it chaps my butt when any track gets to jacking around with long intermissions, reworking the track, and just poor ran shows with classes I could care less about. If weather is the cause then I understand that.

If I go by myself then I always go pitside. Just more interesting to check out the crews working and watch the races when the class I care about is running. Funny thing is when I am in the pits I don't even notice how long intermissions are because your checking out what everybody is doing to their cars.

I don't understand the fans who could care less how late they are running. Sitting in the stands looking at an empty race track, listening to the announcer yap is boring as hell.

Answer your phone Capitani,its gonna be ringing.

You're trying to compare something that normally gets done in the middle of the afternoon to something that gets done in the middle of the night, IMO its not a very good comparison.

How many college FB games in Iowa City or Ames get over with after 11pm?

Very very very few.   I'd bet its in the single digits in the last decade and when it happens its only because of a late start for TV.

Tailgating is some peoples way of killing time til bed time, they are the "die hards".    Some people spend hours in the pits after the races also.

There is no good reason for weekly races to end after 11pm.   The Nats are a different story.

hope you meant this to come off as sarcasm.....Capitani was horrible at pretty much every aspect of his job except being the person that took the heat for the Fairboard when someone complained.  didn't do a good job selling sponsorships (except to the small local businesses with 5-10 employees) -- never sought out trying to get in with big companies in DesMoines like Nationwide Insurance or other companies like Lucas Oil, Pella Corporation, Vermeer, Weiler, etc..

Races rarely started on time, always got over late (I remember racing until 2:00 AM being routine under Capitani's time at the helm, played favorites (Kinser, Wolfgang, Swindell, Lasoski, McCarl all benefitted from calls from Capitani).

Was a horrible office manager -- the $$$ that was embezzled (and an employee fired and prosecuted for) was under his watch.

But let's throw away the fact that attendance has been up, car counts are up, the track has been more profitable the past few years than they had been in the 15-20 years prior, the upgrades due to sponsorships (Video Boards are all sponsorships), Lucas Oil is a sponsorship (which means MavTV is a sponsorship), etc., etc..

you realize almost 1/2 of the crowds at those football games are not die-hards or season ticket holders, they are casual fans.  But a vast majority of the casual fans tailgate (probably more than the die-hards do).

I'm not defending that the races got over late, just offering another perspective that the casual fan doesn't care about end time (I've attended Iowa Cubs, Iowa Energy, Iowa Barnstormer and Iowa Wild games, and guess what, we NEVER once stayed until the end of one.  But we've been back multiple times, I'm a casual fan to those things, as long as I feel I get my $$'s worth, it doesn't matter that my family and I miss the beginning or end of a game (and they have started late as well (and most are indoor venues).

I agree, weekly races should plan to get over by 10:30 on a regular basis (if you take a look at the schedule they lay out at the beginning of the night every week, they do PLAN to do so.  THey cannot control crashes, mechanical failures, or unforeseen circumstances that alter that timeline (like an accident on Hwy 14 that would take out the power as an example.  Heck, a squirel caused a city-wide power outage for 3 hours earlier this year, would you blame the track for that if it happened at 6:00 PM and Mid-American didn't have power restored before dark?  My guess is you would.

Super Chuck thinks vande77 is missing a HUGE part of this complaint.  Nobody here expects a 10:30 PM sharp ending.  Nobody is disputing the fact that there were multiple issues leading to the late start and end times (no squirrels were involved btw).  What you are missing, because you weren't there, was the lack of urgency that we've become accustomed to.  We are used all cars in the staging area, ready to push off BEFORE the finish of the previous race.  We are used to cars pushing off, lining up and going green in a timely manner.  We are used to no unexplained delays between races/classes, shortened intermissions and brief victory lane celebrations.  Any one of these things can be overlooked, but they all added up and we ended around 12:30 AM.

And guess what?  We'll all be back this week regardless of start or end time.  But it wasn't about us.  This was brought up because so many families started leaving around 10:30 PM.  Thanks to kids night, it was an enormous crowd that gradually trickled as the midnight hours approached.  They call them features for a reason, so don't kid yourself thinking people are okay with leaving before the main events.

Super Chuck

I personally know a family that never makes it to the features ever (and we had a night or two get done by 9:30 a season or two ago).  Missing the features means nothing to the casual fan, the only thing that matters is they feel they get their $$$"s worth the amount of time they do attend.

I agree, there is no need for long delays (there is no defense for them), but casual fans will stand in line buying concessions DURING THE RACE (including the features).

So you think a long football game and tailgating during the day is comparable to a looong night of racing getting over with well after the last game of the night on TV from the west coast is done with?

It would take a miracle to get a show with 100+ cars done in 3 hrs so don't tell us they were planning on being done at 10:30pm

4 classes at Knoxville on a NSL night is BAD planning.

Everyone expects better at Knoxville, that is why they are getting criticized.

Maybe the "casual" fan doesn't care if he/she see's the end of the race but they damn sure are never gonna become diehards if they never see the features at the end of the night.    Hotlaps, time trials, heatraces and intermissions aren't that exciting.

You people want Knoxville to cater to the casual fan.

Look how thats going for Nascar.

Valid point! Hang on? You mean the NASCAR where drivers and mechanics etc are making a lucrative living??? I'm not sure of any sport that is so narrowed minded to where it would only want die hards and not attract a new audience! I consider myself a diehard, and I stayed until the finish the other night, because I love Knoxville, to the point where it saddened me to see people leaving before the features. Because I know had they stayed it's more probable than not they would be hooked!!!