Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

BRR - As has been seen many times by you and "your peanut gallery" you just could not answer the question. By choice or inability?

Team Wright One you could not be more correct. I printed this string out and had someone here at work read it. There knowledge about racing is limited to knowing Jeff Gordon drives a nascar. After reading this string of posts their opinion was that Sprint Car racing is owned by the World of Outlaws. They company has been going bankrupt for many years and most welcome the demise. She then asked if the teams left out in the cold could race their stuff in Nascar. You get the picture.

And that is exactly how it looks to a potential sponsor. You can claim you are "doing it to protect the future of sprint car racing", but you would be lying to everyone including yourself. Some of you can not wait to proclaim the death of DIRT Sprint Car racing, the same folks that said good riddance and not soon enough to Ted Johnson. When DIRT Sprint Car racing dies so will the World of Outlaws Sprint Cars. DIRT Late Model World of Outlaws will continue without them.

The sooner some of you stop frothing at the mouth for the demise of the WOO and start doing something to help promote it the better of Sprint Car racing in general will be. Otherwise be carefull what you wish for.

I just hope that the Sprints don't end up like Late Model racing where everything is so splintered you don't know where your favorite driver is going to race. The WoO Late Models had Scott Bloomquist in the fold at first but he opted to chase the big money shows and follow the appearance money wherever it would lead. The bad deal about that is promoters don't know who the h*ll is going to show up at a Late Model race anymore. There are a lot more Late Models around the country so they have been able to weather the storm pretty well but I don't think the Sprints could run independent of an organization and satisfy the fans.

Promoters need to know who's going to be there when they run their newspaper ads. Fans need to be sure what to expect, especially with the increased travel expense, before they commit to a particular event. Without the WoO big time Sprint Car racing would be a free for all. Sure, you'd still have your Knoxville Nationals as well as the big races at Eldora and Williams Grove to name a few but it would take guaranteed appearance money to lure the top drivers to many of the places the WoO is racing.

Stan Meissner

team wright-one - I follow stocks that 1, I own. Or 2, of companies that are of an interest to me. That being said, yes, since I work in aviation, I follow quite a few aviation stocks (bought AMR at just over $4 a share and it is currently trading at almost $27). I also enjoy sprint car racing, so yes, I follow DIRT's stock too. Is it a crime that I take interest in such things? Those that have been around here long enough, know that though I questioned some things that TJ did with the WoO, for the most part, I supported him. You would also know that on the onset, I supported Boundless when they purchased the WoO. I truely believed that the future was going to be very bright. But they started making some very stupid decisions, decisions that I won't go into, because I've posted it on here time and time again. That is what I have based MY decisions on. If DIRT fails, they fail, there is NOTHING that you and I can do about it. I still support them by going to their races, but other than that, there is nothing that the fans can do. Sprint car racing was around a long, long time before the WoO came along and it will be around for a long, long time if or when DIRT folds. For the first time in a while, I do agree with MSPN, I am sure that there are a few individuals waiting in the wings to pick up the pieces if it does fold (and it wouldn't supprise me if their initials are TS & KK).

Member of this message board since 1997

Hawker, I have emailed you and you know that I like and respect you but strongly disagree with your thoughts, as you do with mine. Just hope you know that on this end of the spectrum, the same still holds true.

Yes, sprint cars were around alot longer than they are today but today sprint car racing is known by the average racing guy as Steve Kinser and the WoO. Believe it or not, there are still Sammy questions on if he is still racing with the WoO. We hard-core sprint car fans will still attend any and all sprint car races and that will never change. Your average "Joe" who picks up the sports page or listens to the radio commercials know no better. Steve Kinsers name puts more butts in the seats. The mention of WoO also puts butts in the seats cause the name is a novelty of sorts. Not by you and me and those who post here but your average race fan in general.

I don't feel that IF, and is a big "IF" the WoO do fold that it will hurt the sport to the extreme. Yes it will hurt but this day and age of the internet and drivers press releases, there is hope for the promoter and sprint car racing. Promoters will not have to pay sanctioning fees nor granting a three page of V.I.P.'s into their track for free. Drivers, with press releases almost rediculous now days, can view what is left of the sprint car racing print media and racing internet websites for the big paying sprint car races and make their schedules accordingly. Thus, their press releases will enable us fans to know who is planning on racing where. The mention of travel and show money was mentioned, that would be taken care of with a higher purse for the drivers.

Lastly, IF it is the worst case scenario and they do fold, I agree with you that it will be bailed out by those initials that you mentioned above.

Those are just my opinions and with some of the idiot postings (especially by a P.A. idiot), I am intitled to my opinion.

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

look insiders...i dont personally give a sh!t how many dead beats in life go out of business, its called the free market...losers bottom out every day...if you have your eggs in a sinking ship "sorry about your luck", suck it up and get your sh!t together. our racing clearly does not depend on the top heavy, crumbling elephant.

the people frothing at the mouth are those running out of excuses for the dismal downward spiral that continues to find a new low. welcome to the welfare state of sprint car racing...and the co-dependant enablers who pay plent yo f lip service but still have not bought the shares, in spite of the bargain price.

buying debt is not a good idea, hence the challenge of attracting a series sponsor.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

mr.hawker, i know you are a big a fan of sprint racing as anyone. and i am hopeful you wish the best for the woo although i question that sometimes. but like john's racing photos was saying it just don't look good to the uneducated out there.(and by uneducated i don't just mean me so don't go there. it is not my fault i did not know that share meant a piece of a company. not that i hade to give away some of my lunch or something else that is mine lol). and the posts don't seem to be in the vein of constuctive criticism or looking to offer anything but a ha ha and an i told you so. that is what i believe some of us are finding objection with. we can find a lot more to object with you about but i think that is it for now. lmao

Do you honestly beleive that the loss of the national touring series would not have an effect on your racing in PA. I thought you understood economics but I guess not. Or at least not the trickle down effect. When the National 410s go so will 410s. That is all that is really stringing them together coast to coast. Without the national series there is no reason for the local or regional series to keep them. The 360 shows are some of the best attended shows out there and have enjoyed higher overall car counts for years.

I know I am just wasting my time. You don't car about professional sports anyway right? Now, just where do you get off telling me to get my shit together. You know nothing about me and I know you don't know what I do for a living or how I live. It is quite obvious you think that I am nothing more than a half assed co-dependent enabling photographer paying lip service to a crumbing elephant.

The question was simple. What would you do to help Sprint Car Racing if indeed the WOO failed or better yet what you do different ly if you were in charge. Rather than answer you choose personal attacks. DELETED this Part. After re-reading I decided I did not want to stoop to your level of personal attacks.

PA has some great racers and fans, and a couple of good tracks too. To bad the same can not be said for all of its fans.

Out of all the tracks I visit during the year a few highlights:

PowerCom has the best Brat's.

Jackson Speedway has the best nachos.

Wilmot Speedway has the worst coffee.

Huset's has the worst (unless it's fixed from last year) PA system.

Deer Creek, MN gives Knoxville a run for the tightest ticket security.

Plymouth Dirt Track has the leakiest covered grandstand during a rain delay.

Dodge County Fairgrounds has one of the best un-obstructed sight lines from nearly any seat. (A half-miler with no pitting in the infield is how rare...). The flip side of that coin, is the pits at DCF is way too spread out in-between the fair buildings and what not.

All the asphalt parking lot at the Oshkosh Speedzone is way cool. Even the "Cans Only" PVC pipe thing is kinda cool, the bored kids use it like a game and keeps them busy cleaning instead of whinning and fidgeting around. First I chuckle to see some half-pint pee wee pitching mucho beer cans into the pipe, then sad to know some low life dad/mom or both has drank all that and this poor kid has to go home with them.

The Richert Memorial at Cedar Lake is the best "Feel Good" race of the year. It is also the Northern most track I hit.

I miss the WoO in Vegas. The 1st couple years were kick ass. Then track got worse and the numbers dwindled, so maybe it was for the best. Being treated like a second class citizen at NASCAR weekend sucked.

Angell Park is cool-Just because.

Now what was this thread about.......

the photo reference was directed at Nelligan, not you...he grinds the same axxe no matter what the topic is. half the people circling the wagons comment as though they have never balanced a checkbook. i am sure you have a better business acumen than that...never met you, but small business men know better than corporations how to manage "costs". accept my apology if my comments appeared to be directed at you personally.

all i am saying is the established monopoly is top heavy and failing...not the individual drivers or the sport overall. this allegiance to a brand name that carries negative baggage sure has you guys all in a snit. the people that need to get their shit together are the folks SPENDING more than they take in. this will have a domino effect on the local tracks, for sure...but to forecast doom and gloom is a bit of a stretch because the top drivers will surely reform as they did last year if need be.

the race to spend big $ on haulers, hotel bills and deisel cards was brought about by the touring series. it trickeld down to locals in some areas and this is a problem that is not solved by screwing around with a wing / tire rule.

i answered the question earlier...success begins at home...at the local level. i am a paying customer and will remain one until the local promoters serve the fans a bad product.

we had Susky re-open...declare war on Lincoln, vowing to put them out of business. Lincoln is packed every week, improving infrastructure every year and Susky has stopped running 410s and appears to be in hiatus for part of the summer. clear to all is the different in management styles, tack prep and relations with the teams.

its already been alluded by your insider buddies to that others "wait in the wings", maybe they are smart enough not to purchase debt on day 1. forego a name and bring stability to where it has been lacking for a decade.

have a good day, the sky is not falling...just the stock price.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Hey BRR if you are such an economics major why did it take you 45 years to own anything other than a car, riddle me that one? Heck, with no wife and kids in the picture and the way you talk in here I'd a thought you would have been a millionaire by now. Your hypocrisy is only exceeded by your BS. You keep taking shots, what do you expect me to do?

It's the same few Outlaw haters hoping for their demise that have been wishing for this for years now, some things never change. Heck, the NST never really existed anyway and one of them thinks they are making a comeback, huh? Whatever happens, happens and none of us in here are gonna make a difference but those that care should continue to support with their attendance.

I said years ago that I would like to see something way different than what is happening today and I will share my thoughts and hear what the experts have to say.

I would like to see a LIVE show carried on Speed every Wed and Thurs night for about 15 weeks during the summer. The first night it's non-winged and the second it's winged racing and both nights are at Eldora. This should draw the best in the business and the live TV factor would bring some sponsors and maybe even the Posse from the Porch. Speed has nothing else to do and with one central location showcasing the best this would work rather easily in a logistics way. There could be enough money put together to come up with a Champion and I think their could be some prestige involved to rival the Nationals, given some time. Tony and Kasey, can you hear me? The weekends are still available and if you have a touring series then that's when they can run. I think that each of the tracks (ie; Knoxville, Eldora, the Grove, Lernerville, Eagle etc.) could get together and run weekend specials or two day shows 2 or 3 times a year and they could pay enough money to bring the best into town, heck maybe they could invent their own series between themselves? This would require a lot of agreement by some people running the tracks these days but it could happen with foresight and effort and I think the fan would support it. Take It Easy...

PS I know some will want Late Models on one night but heck maybe you can make it a 3 day show and run them on Tuesday......

you were slapped by Cobra when you entered with the same tired song and now you play it again.

riddle away riddler...but no one willed me anything.

i have payed all my bills ON TIME and maintain a very high credit rating...only you can confuse that with millions in operational shortfalls.

if you can't read the filing without a college degree its not my problem...stick to popping Coor Lite caps.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

BRR - Apology accepted. If you had started off this way I wouldn't have taken exception to your statements.

You may be suprised that I agree with many of the statements regarding debt. That being said, it can not be changed now, and announcing it as if it were a rightfull triumph as some here do is only counter productive to sprint car racing and dirt track racing in general. We all know about it already. There was a guy on another message board that no matter what the thread was (good or bad) he would insert "What is their debt now?". It was disruptive and counter productive. They eventually banned him when refused to stop.

My point is, for nearly two years now every quarter the same people post the debts statistics and predict the demise of the series. Why? Do we have droves of new people coming into this sport as fans or participants (or sponsors) that need to be warned not to invest their time, energy and money into something that by all rights should already be dead. I can tell you that is the way some potential sponsors see it. And as I shared in a previous post people that do not even know what Sprint Car racing is see it the same way.

I too feel that cutting costs is something that should have been thought of long ago before the big trailers and rigs started coming in. However, many of those rigs are hand me downs and not as cost prohibitive as you may think. Especially from a security standpoint.

no doubt about the hand me down scenario....true of used parts, chassis etc. which may have enabled sweet deals to help start up racers more than any other single aspect.

operating costs are the biggest concern because they are ongoing...when a company states in the reports that they have "going conerns" with their own viability, i take them for their word and would rather see major changes over the steady bleeding / denial rope-a-dope that has lulled folks to sleep over the years.

dialog and study is required to solve any problem...i do not agree that squelching information and discussion will help this problem. IMO that is another facet or obscuring the ulitmate solution. we all like to see these cars go fast and that takes a pile of money...it is mind boggling that the administration of the organization can be so inept at handling the task.

any business with the money required to back the series would have to be profitable in their own right and understand how to be a good steward of their own monies...unfortunatley the trend is in the wrong direction.

ultimately the drivers will race somewhere...regardless of the brand name on the press release.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Yep; this is a message board

Brian 

"TURN AROUND; MATE !"

What the heck ever came about with this????

As per usual, Hawker and BRR have came up with brown stuff on their face again.

Looks like DIRT is still in business.

Better luck next quarter big guys.

lol @ Hawker and BRR

Save your butt, get a colon screening TODAY

For complete line of Sponsor Awards check out 
MarshallTownLaser.com

Duane Davis

Laser Engraving 
641-751-7777
101 N Center
Marshalltown, Iowa 

Please point out where I said that they would be out of business by the end of the month.

The only thing that I have pointed out is the fact that they are bleeding borrowed cash at an alarming rate. Cash that they have no possible way of paying back and are having to refinance their debt at 8% and 12% interest. That is a fact, not something that I dreamed up and with them having 0 profit and in their words, no possibility of making a profit in the foreseeable future, there can be only one outcome.

It is obvious that this is a subject that concerns many. Just take a look at the number of folks that have viewed this thread in such a short time.

It doesn't supprise me that you stand up for DIRT's financial performance, after all, you are a staunch Bush supporter...

Member of this message board since 1997

As an update...see below.... my personel opinion...looks like the $$$ from parts unknown have run dry and now they need capital. Good luck trying to find investors wih the balance sheet they have to offer !!

For the blind believers..there has never been a better time to buy !!! I am sure once they make their presentation that the stock price will sky rocket

World Racing Group to Present at 3rd Annual C. E. Unterberg, Towbin Emerging Growth Conference July 11, 2007
Monday July 2, 10:07 am ET

Based on SEC filings none of this should be a surprise. I would not be surprised if we see the company reorganize under bankruptcy protection in the near future. The following is from a SEC filing from about a year ago and some of the information may have changed since the filing. Dirt motorsports inc. (DMSR.otc bb) was originally incorporated as Boundless motorsports in 2004. In july of 2005 it re-incorporated as a Delaware corporation under the name Dirt motorsports inc. The company operates 6 tracks of which it owns 4 and has leases on two. The company according to it's SEC filings owns 4 series, The WOO, UMP, MARS and DIRT. In Dec of 2005 the company issued stock to the public with a closing price of $5.90. Today's stock price sits at $1.20 a share. The price dropped by 33% the first two months of 2006 and then began a steady decline to todays price. I can safely say that not since CART have i seen a motorsports company with such poor numbers.

Should I list all the bills that I owe that are due this month? I'm not really sure how I am going to pay them yet, but I will find a way. I always do. Then throw in what I owe on the mansion I bought in the 'burbs and the home equity loan I had to take out to pay off the last dump I lived in. Then I bought a truck - more loans!! Lets not even talk about my credit card balances. If I had shareholders they'd be running for the doors!!!! I bet Hawker a steak dinner that come next week I'm still here and not even close to filing for bankruptcy.

What sickens me is that you "fans" seem to be getting off on the fact that the WoO are having financial troubles and to me its not very funny to think about how it affects the grand scheme of things if they were to pull the plug. Everyone enjoys kicking a man when he is down...its sad. I bet not one of you has even thought about what you can do personally to help our sport grow and quit sitting on a message board bitching about it and enjoying seeing DIRT continue to struggle with the financial end of bringing this great sport to YOUR front doors.

Not very many "fans" ever stand up and lend a hand, spread the word, promote the sport, get off their collective a$$es and TRY to do something positive. Nope - its easier to just sit back with your beer in hand and whine about the dusty track or the expensive hot dog or the dirty port-o-crapper. That's great promotion to get all your buddies to want to join you next week at the track. How many of you have tried to introduce this sport to a new fan this season? I have brought several - all who said they would love to come back again. It all comes down to how WE support this business...because if it doesn't happen - I'm sure you'll all be tickled pink when DIRT goes belly up and there are no more Outlaws traveling the country...won't that be grand?

Former Owner/President of FAST and Black Swamp Media
Group. Currently just another fan in the stands.