Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I remember the Hewitt-McSpadden deal. Hewitt flat out crashed Leland In turn 1. It was ugly. 1991?

Thing about the Martin-Brown crash was that Brown wasn't trying to put a slider on Martin. Knowing personally both drivers at the time, and watching the race as it unfolded, plus talking to both drivers after, this is what happened there.  Martin lead the race from the front row. Late in the race Brown cleanly slid the then 2nd place driver who's name escapes me now, in 1 and 2. Martin, still leading, had slowed dramatically in the previous few laps. When Brown entered 3 he executed a protection slider figuring he might get slid by the fast car he just passed, considering he lost a bit of momentum coming off 2. Brown never saw Martin, much slower and spinning his used up rears in the middle of the track in 3 and 4.  Destroyed both cars, not just Randy's. Ugly. Martin never saw it coming and had to quiz his crew after, wtf happened. Super bad deal, but not a slider gone bad or an intentional takeout, for sure.

I want to say he was in a Forbrook car but my memory is a bit foggy as to the details.  I remember we weren't too far from it in the stands and can picture Sammy's right rear kicking out and all hell breaking lose.  My memories are the Sammy incident, a crazy drive down behind a swaying trailer, weather so hot I couldn't nap in the tent, and playing pool and drinking beer to get out of the heat.  I don't recall who won it anymore.

Stan Meissner

No one is without guilt. Let's not act like Schatz didn't absolutely take out and destroy Lynton Jeffery's car at the June WoO show at Knoxville a few short years ago. Lynton walked away and didn't saying anything bad but then again when the 10 time champion is running Vortex wings you probably don't want to say much. The chopping off speed at the end of a straight seems far more dangerous in my mind than a slide job but yet it one of the most used moves to hold onto the lead these days. I got a chance to hop in a modified here a while back and didn't realize how quick reactions have to be on the drivers side. New found respect for guys that run sprints!

Mark Kinser's ugly slider on Kaufman at the National Open back in the late 90s, early 2000s which ended KKs big run from the B up through the field.  Surprised Kinser got out of the place alive that night.

That was kind of shocking to watch since it came from Donnie.  You just don't see him do that stuff much.

That chop move is a pandemic.  Everyone is more worried about slowing someone else down than making their car go faster.  The only reason there's not more wrecks from it is they all expect it anymore.  If you're going to pass on the bottom you better blow by in a hurry.  If you don't have enough speed you better be ready to avoid the chop.  It's not just about who can drive their car the fastest anymore.  It's also who can chop, block, and mess up the air for other cars.  

Can you explain "the chop" to me a little better? If I'm passing you on the inside and you turn left in front of me, it would seem like centrifical force would tend to push your car to the right. It seems like a sudden left turn in the corner also would make the car want to spin out? If you chop left in front of me, I don't let off the gas and we bonk together, what typically happens next?

Yep don't get me wrong, Mr. Schatz is a clean racer indeed but this was a moment I guarantee he would want back. Point is even with sliders we calculate huge Risk vs Reward decisions in milliseconds and sometimes things get ugly even though no harm was meant. 

As for the chop move, I agree it is getting a little to far at times but drivers are adapting and it is expected. Even so were gonna bend some stuff up time to time due to the move. With open wheels there is nothing you can really do to enforce a rule on it either. Now you bring up messing up the air for other drivers which I actually like. It's fascinating to watch the effects on the cars and see how running so close changes so much! Some drivers can absolutely predict what the car will do in dirty air while others can't. The strategy is amazing when kept clean. To an avid fan this adds another dimension to the sport to look out for. 

Seems that you see the chop move at Knoxville going into 1 a ton.  Didnt they try to stop blocking in other forms of motorsports.  Some say that blocking is what cost the racing world Dale Sr.  

The chop we're talking about is a car running the outside turns to cut to the bottom entering the corner.  We're not talking about pitching it sideways.  Just angling to the bottom pretty quickly.  It's usually hard for that car to stay on the bottom just due to their speed.  But they don't really care to stay down there.  They just want to cut the car on the bottom off and mess him up.  When two open wheel cars bonk together there's usually a crash.   

2008 Gold Cup Steve takes out Jayme Barnes. Quite a fight after a Barnes crew memeber threw his damaged hood in Steve's trailer.

Keith had an amazing run going 22nd to 2nd I believe and reeling in Schatz. I don't remember that move being a slider though. Keith went low on the re-start to protect and Mark just drove right into him. 

A

Turn 1 or 3 at Knoxville every week someone gets chopped hard. I'm also talking about the cutting off of speed where the guy running the bottom is sure to drift the car all the way against the straightaway wall to cut off the momentum of someone running the outside. To me there is no way to stop blocking and I don't want some F1 bull crap that says your penalized for blocking. It's racing but when it's open wheel like sprints it's a roll of the dice each time you block or get blocked. No telling if one, none, or both end up on their lid.

Thanks. I was obviously overthinking that.

Of the many years of racing I have been privileged to see - to me the worst slide job was at the Knoxville Nationals in the mid ''70's.  HOT LAPS.   Sammy Swindell slid into Dubby May coming out of corner 2 - just getting on the straight - and Sammy sent Dubby sailing end over end until he cleared the fence and ended up part way up the Quonset hut going into #3.  For years you could see the patch in the Quonset hut where Dubby went through the "roof".  I have not been back to Knoxville for some time - is the Quonset hut still there?  It would be behind the corner #3 stands.   Dubby quit racing shortly after that (sad - he was a good and talented racer).  I was talking with Van May, Dubby's brother in the early 20's at the Chili Bowl and mentioned that and he was amazed that I remembered that. Van was still rather upset about the incident.

And this is one of the many reasons I am not a Sammy fan.  I will say he is great at building and setting up a car and he is a fantastic driver which remains - he has no reason to drive the way he does.  Some of his antics should have gotten him barred from some tracks.  In fact - if he weren't Sammy I would wager that he would have been banned from many tracks.   I guess the difference of opinions of the fans is why Sammy is still greeted with open arms at so many venues.   The dollar at the front gate still rules.

I wonder if that is why Dale Sr was so loved/hated. But all fans had a reaction towards him.  I know its not sprint cars just using a comparison

Watch Arron Ruetzel long enough, you will see it

It is exactly why Dale sr and Sammy were so loved and hated. Both so talented  that shouldn't have to resort to dirty driving tactics. But that was also their "style" . Sam would send his mom outta the park. Dale had a heart, just wanted to rough them up a bit, then apologize, roughhouse a little later. Mellowed with age some.  Ask Knoxville Hall of famer Bill Utz about gettin dumped by Sammy in Oklahoma, and the same pullin a pistol on him, to avoid the ass beating he had coming when Bill stomped down to his pit, after a frigging heat race! Sam never has mellowed...