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Topic: Brad Doty on Posse Outlaw Crew Chiefs / Wing Angle Rule / Narrow LR
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Page 3 of 3 of 52 replies
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October 11, 2015 at
05:47:05 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on October 11 2015 at 01:31:52 AM
You are assuming the scales and the area in the pits where the team works on the car are both exactly level? Or the car sits at the same angle at both?
What if the team makes an adjustment to the rear of the car or front of the car during a red and it changes the angle of the car, including the wing?
You do know wings change angle when they move back and forth don't you? So just where exactly along the wing travel are you going to check the angle. So a driver could have the wing back and be at more angle and just roll it all the way forward coming off the track and by the time they hit the scales it is down.
Cars raise in the back as fuel burns off. That can change the wing angle.
You see, things are not so simple.
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Weight rule is measured after the races and it is simple. Wing angle is easier than weight. Weight rule they burn off 200 lbs of fuel, tires, etc. They can pass wing angle after the races as easy as weight.
It's also already been stated that a manual wing slider would have to be mandatory. Do F-1 or IndyCars have driver adjustable wings? NASCAR or late models have driver adjustable spoilers? No, and they seem to get by just fine.
They also need to have a rule that the trailing edge of the foil has to plumb bob in front of the rear axle as well.
Wing angle rule is simple. Mechanical restrictions of any type are pretty simple. Only thing difficult is all the whiners. Will it unhook the cars? Yes. WIll it make them cheaper to run? Yes. WIll a bunch of people whine about it either way? Yes.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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October 12, 2015 at
02:07:38 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on October 11 2015 at 05:47:05 PM
Weight rule is measured after the races and it is simple. Wing angle is easier than weight. Weight rule they burn off 200 lbs of fuel, tires, etc. They can pass wing angle after the races as easy as weight.
It's also already been stated that a manual wing slider would have to be mandatory. Do F-1 or IndyCars have driver adjustable wings? NASCAR or late models have driver adjustable spoilers? No, and they seem to get by just fine.
They also need to have a rule that the trailing edge of the foil has to plumb bob in front of the rear axle as well.
Wing angle rule is simple. Mechanical restrictions of any type are pretty simple. Only thing difficult is all the whiners. Will it unhook the cars? Yes. WIll it make them cheaper to run? Yes. WIll a bunch of people whine about it either way? Yes.
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F1 have driver adjustable suspension. So do indy cars. But we are not talking about them.
You didn't address the question of what happens when the team sets the wing angle in the pits and it is ok but it is not the same at the scales because the car sits different in both places with no changes to it at all. now you want to do away with wing sliders?
Everyone already has to run the same wing the same tires the same basic body etc. Now youbwant them to run the same wing angle. What's next? Lets just make everyone have the same color car and number and also wear the same underwear. you are never going to make things perfect and the more you fuck with it, the worse it makes it. everytime you try to take something from a racer, they figure out how to get twice as much back from it. Every time you make a rule it ends up costing more money in the long run. Lets just restrict the hell out of everything. Lets just make everyone fun the same shocks and bars and set their cars all up the same.
You think all your restrictions will make things cheaper. When has that ever happened in sprint car racing? Every time they restrict something people spend a ton of money to figure out a way around it.
You want to lower the wing angle? Then put aittle dish and belly back in the wings and guys will lower them some. A flat wing raised up plants the car harder than a slightly dished and bellied wing that is not run so high.
to indy and beyond!!
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October 12, 2015 at
03:42:26 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on October 12 2015 at 02:07:38 AM
F1 have driver adjustable suspension. So do indy cars. But we are not talking about them.
You didn't address the question of what happens when the team sets the wing angle in the pits and it is ok but it is not the same at the scales because the car sits different in both places with no changes to it at all. now you want to do away with wing sliders?
Everyone already has to run the same wing the same tires the same basic body etc. Now youbwant them to run the same wing angle. What's next? Lets just make everyone have the same color car and number and also wear the same underwear. you are never going to make things perfect and the more you fuck with it, the worse it makes it. everytime you try to take something from a racer, they figure out how to get twice as much back from it. Every time you make a rule it ends up costing more money in the long run. Lets just restrict the hell out of everything. Lets just make everyone fun the same shocks and bars and set their cars all up the same.
You think all your restrictions will make things cheaper. When has that ever happened in sprint car racing? Every time they restrict something people spend a ton of money to figure out a way around it.
You want to lower the wing angle? Then put aittle dish and belly back in the wings and guys will lower them some. A flat wing raised up plants the car harder than a slightly dished and bellied wing that is not run so high.
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And you still haven't come to the realization that the cars burn off 200 lbs of fuel during the race and still have to make weight AFTERWARD. Wing angle is no different than ANY other rule.
And no other major series allows driver adjustable wings or spoilers. Not F1, IndyCars, Late Models, NASCAR, NHRA, Etc.
Just like you haven't come to the realization that the reason there are no car owners is because they are too expensive, and the reason there is no passing in the heat races is because they are stuck too hard.
Congratulations for being consistently wrong. Why should anyone have to read the race track anyway. Why should people have to set up their cars for the beginning, middle or end if they are allowed any cockpit adjustments they want. Why should drivers have to drive.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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October 12, 2015 at
07:48:45 AM
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299
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on October 12 2015 at 03:42:26 AM
And you still haven't come to the realization that the cars burn off 200 lbs of fuel during the race and still have to make weight AFTERWARD. Wing angle is no different than ANY other rule.
And no other major series allows driver adjustable wings or spoilers. Not F1, IndyCars, Late Models, NASCAR, NHRA, Etc.
Just like you haven't come to the realization that the reason there are no car owners is because they are too expensive, and the reason there is no passing in the heat races is because they are stuck too hard.
Congratulations for being consistently wrong. Why should anyone have to read the race track anyway. Why should people have to set up their cars for the beginning, middle or end if they are allowed any cockpit adjustments they want. Why should drivers have to drive.
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So, you will hook the cars up more, as everyone will run with the wing as far back as they can! none of your posts seem to have any knowledge. As far as heat races go, I doubt the drivers are messing with their wing much in a heat race anyway. The more you unhook the cars the MORE reliant they will be on the preferred line.
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October 12, 2015 at
07:54:35 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: SamHerring14 on October 12 2015 at 07:48:45 AM
So, you will hook the cars up more, as everyone will run with the wing as far back as they can! none of your posts seem to have any knowledge. As far as heat races go, I doubt the drivers are messing with their wing much in a heat race anyway. The more you unhook the cars the MORE reliant they will be on the preferred line.
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really now?
How can you watch an F1 race and not HEAR the phrase "DRS Zone"...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_reduction_system
Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better
weather." Van May
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October 12, 2015 at
07:55:24 AM
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3751
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sorry Sam - was trying to reply to cubic and copied the wrong post!
Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better
weather." Van May
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October 12, 2015 at
03:07:51 PM
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Joined:
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09/12/2008
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Posts:
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2511
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on October 12 2015 at 03:42:26 AM
And you still haven't come to the realization that the cars burn off 200 lbs of fuel during the race and still have to make weight AFTERWARD. Wing angle is no different than ANY other rule.
And no other major series allows driver adjustable wings or spoilers. Not F1, IndyCars, Late Models, NASCAR, NHRA, Etc.
Just like you haven't come to the realization that the reason there are no car owners is because they are too expensive, and the reason there is no passing in the heat races is because they are stuck too hard.
Congratulations for being consistently wrong. Why should anyone have to read the race track anyway. Why should people have to set up their cars for the beginning, middle or end if they are allowed any cockpit adjustments they want. Why should drivers have to drive.
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I don't give a fuck what ascar or f1 or indy car does. F1 and indy car allow driver adjustable suspension and cup allows driver adjustable track bar. Nascar and indy car have become spec series and f1 is getting there.
You seem to think that sprint car teams should have to drain the fuel out of the car and take them to the scale every time they make a chassis change in order to check the damn wing angle.
Every time a regulations or rule restriction is made in order to standardize something, all it does is make for more follow the leader racing because everyone has the same thing. The racing suffers because everyone is voing thr same speed with the same setup.
Like i said if you want to lower the wings then just put a little dish and belly back in them so there is actually a better trade off between drag and down force wben youbrun them higher. used to be you had to weigh wing angle with drag and minimal downforce gain. Now there is no down force unless you stand them up so standing them up a little more isn't that much of a drag penalty compared to the force it creates.
to indy and beyond!!
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October 12, 2015 at
03:12:24 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: SamHerring14 on October 12 2015 at 07:48:45 AM
So, you will hook the cars up more, as everyone will run with the wing as far back as they can! none of your posts seem to have any knowledge. As far as heat races go, I doubt the drivers are messing with their wing much in a heat race anyway. The more you unhook the cars the MORE reliant they will be on the preferred line.
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If you don't like Doty's ideas so be it. But to say they won't even work at all just keeps proving your a jackass. Sprint cars go around the track pretty well without a wing at all, much less if you just make them lower the wing angle back to normal. They also already have a placement rule for the front wing, you really think it would be any big deal for them to make one for the rear wing? I have already said in this thread they should just make them plumb bob the rear edge of the foil in front of the rear axle.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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October 12, 2015 at
03:24:58 PM
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Joined:
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Reply to:
Posted By: SamHerring14 on October 12 2015 at 07:48:45 AM
So, you will hook the cars up more, as everyone will run with the wing as far back as they can! none of your posts seem to have any knowledge. As far as heat races go, I doubt the drivers are messing with their wing much in a heat race anyway. The more you unhook the cars the MORE reliant they will be on the preferred line.
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He already wants to regulate how far back the wing can be run. He says driver adjustment should be taken away, then sites f1 and indy car who both have more driver adjustible controls than any other racing. Even cup cars have driver adjustable track bars.
Drvers sre complaining that the racing is getting harder to pass and come from very far back to the front because the cars are all so alike, and now this nit wit wants to try to control it more by making everyone more alike.
Be hasn't even realized that the thing that is hooking the cars up more and more aren't tires and wings, it is shocks.
to indy and beyond!!
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October 12, 2015 at
06:57:32 PM
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This message was edited on
October 12, 2015 at
07:59:50 PM by cubicdollars
Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on October 12 2015 at 03:24:58 PM
He already wants to regulate how far back the wing can be run. He says driver adjustment should be taken away, then sites f1 and indy car who both have more driver adjustible controls than any other racing. Even cup cars have driver adjustable track bars.
Drvers sre complaining that the racing is getting harder to pass and come from very far back to the front because the cars are all so alike, and now this nit wit wants to try to control it more by making everyone more alike.
Be hasn't even realized that the thing that is hooking the cars up more and more aren't tires and wings, it is shocks.
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Great banter. Not a single adjustable wing or spoiler in all of major auto racing and yet you bunch of jackasses think a sprint car can't survive without one. Anyone with any common sense knows you are completely full of shit. A $50 manual wing slider could save thousands of dollars a year in engine bills. The wings are stood up more than ever. Someone just needs to bring them back to reality.
People are coming from the back more than ever once the track slows down because they have already started to unhook them. The only thing really wrong with sprint car racing is they are still hooked up too much in qualifying and the cost is prohibitive for even well funded car owners.
Mainly because ignorant dipshits like you guys have forced the sport to be splintered into a bunch of different engine classes instead of just taking care of business 30 years ago like the UNLIMITED late models did by going to smaller tires and less downforce back then. People like you are the reason we have 360 and 305 sprints instead of UNLIMITED sprints.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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October 12, 2015 at
08:44:43 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on October 12 2015 at 06:57:32 PM
Great banter. Not a single adjustable wing or spoiler in all of major auto racing and yet you bunch of jackasses think a sprint car can't survive without one. Anyone with any common sense knows you are completely full of shit. A $50 manual wing slider could save thousands of dollars a year in engine bills. The wings are stood up more than ever. Someone just needs to bring them back to reality.
People are coming from the back more than ever once the track slows down because they have already started to unhook them. The only thing really wrong with sprint car racing is they are still hooked up too much in qualifying and the cost is prohibitive for even well funded car owners.
Mainly because ignorant dipshits like you guys have forced the sport to be splintered into a bunch of different engine classes instead of just taking care of business 30 years ago like the UNLIMITED late models did by going to smaller tires and less downforce back then. People like you are the reason we have 360 and 305 sprints instead of UNLIMITED sprints.
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no one said sprint car racing couldn't survive without adjustable wings. also just about every major racing series has some for of driver adjustments in the car. indy car has anti roll bars and weight jackers and maybe even shock adjustments that can be done by the driver. the driver can even adjust the fuel. cup now has driver adjustable track bar.
f1 doesn't need many driver adjustments because it is done by a computer. and don't f1 still have wings that automatically adjust on the track at certain points, so the driver doesn't have to?
a 50 dollar wing slider isn't going to save anyone shit. i have NEVER heard a driver or owner tell their motor builder they don't want the most power out of the motor they can get. your fucking wing slider will not save a dime on motors, tires, or anything else.
i have raced for weeks on end at times and not had the driver move the damn wing at all and it has not saved anything. yes there are times that the wing does get moved, but sometimes it doesn't. why? because we jack the piece of shit thing up so high in the first place to even get it to do anything that moving it back doesn't do much.
or we just start with it back a little to begin with.
you keep side stepping the fact that every restriction leads to more follow the leader racing and less passing.
your idea that people are coming from the back because they have unhooked the cars is rediculous. if there cars were unhooked they would be going good on a fast track and slow down when the track goes away. the reason somwe people go fast as the track slows down is because they are set up to run better as the fuel burns off and the hooked up set up they have starts to work.
the best way to kill a racing series is to regulate it out of existence.
now go back to your bench racing.
to indy and beyond!!
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October 13, 2015 at
02:48:14 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on October 12 2015 at 08:44:43 PM
no one said sprint car racing couldn't survive without adjustable wings. also just about every major racing series has some for of driver adjustments in the car. indy car has anti roll bars and weight jackers and maybe even shock adjustments that can be done by the driver. the driver can even adjust the fuel. cup now has driver adjustable track bar.
f1 doesn't need many driver adjustments because it is done by a computer. and don't f1 still have wings that automatically adjust on the track at certain points, so the driver doesn't have to?
a 50 dollar wing slider isn't going to save anyone shit. i have NEVER heard a driver or owner tell their motor builder they don't want the most power out of the motor they can get. your fucking wing slider will not save a dime on motors, tires, or anything else.
i have raced for weeks on end at times and not had the driver move the damn wing at all and it has not saved anything. yes there are times that the wing does get moved, but sometimes it doesn't. why? because we jack the piece of shit thing up so high in the first place to even get it to do anything that moving it back doesn't do much.
or we just start with it back a little to begin with.
you keep side stepping the fact that every restriction leads to more follow the leader racing and less passing.
your idea that people are coming from the back because they have unhooked the cars is rediculous. if there cars were unhooked they would be going good on a fast track and slow down when the track goes away. the reason somwe people go fast as the track slows down is because they are set up to run better as the fuel burns off and the hooked up set up they have starts to work.
the best way to kill a racing series is to regulate it out of existence.
now go back to your bench racing.
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I don't know what to tell you. Doty came up with a great idea with this wing angle rule. If you ask majority of truthful people if lowering wing angle reduces downforce and turbulence or dirty air, they would say YES. If you also asked them if it would help cut engine costs they would say YES. Saying NO to either one of those questions makes you a liar.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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October 13, 2015 at
01:46:24 PM
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Wing angle when Heats, Main? Most Heats are follow the leader if they go green with 30 or fewer cars... Passing only happens when the tracks get hard aka packed down in the Main.
Wing angle would be easy to do. Just measure from the top of the frame to under the back of the wing. Wing tree could only be so high. Nothing with ground angle of car etc would change wing height or angle. Everyone warms motor. When Idling come by run wing all the way up and measure wing tree height.
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