Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I am glad there isn't too much complaining about the trucks because they were highly entertaining and provided the closest racing of the night.  While the PPV was a struggle to start like usual (it seems) once it got going it was excellent.  Hope TMC gets better soon, he's tough enough if that helps......Heck, I felt bad for AJ and the Dingus staff, their first Saturday crowd of the year and it ran long,that hurts....Does he buy the PPV and play it, just wondering......Take It Easy.....

I am very happy with Knoxville being my local track, I dont think there is a better track in the country, that being said- i dont think anyone is above construcitve criticism. There would be nothing more i love than to see Knoxville packed week in- week out, but i just think to get new fans in ( especially younger ) they need to get the show done in a timely manner! Thats all. I beleive if they ran a slick show every week, they wouldnt need 100+ race cars in the pits each week to survive! They already have one of the best 410 driver line ups in the country, this should be their selling point, not 100+ cars and pick up trucks! 

What Sam said.  Super Chuck thought the crowd was HUGE for the season opener...hated to see so many families heading to the exits between 11-11:30 PM.  For all that Knoxville does right, the sense of urgency was missing on Saturday and it showed as so many people left early.  Will they come back?  Sure hope so.  Can Knoxville do a better job speeding things up between races and nixing an unnecessary intermission?  Of course they can.

TWSprunk mentioned it before, but the video board on the front stretch was a very nice improvement.  The folks at Impact4800 knocked another one out of the park.  Makes the interviews and pill draw on the main stage much more engaging being able to see the drivers as they speak.  The camera angles and replays were great too. 

So even though some feel we are beating up on the track, Knoxville has raised the bar pretty high for themselves.  When you're the best, expect the criticism that comes with it.  Get the show done between 10:30-11 PM and we'll go back to complaining about the price of tenderloins.  Mmmmmm.....tenderloins.

Super Chuck

I was corrected earlier about the 305's and apologize,  even if I believe that they should not have been scheduled (as well as the trucks) on a night when they expect extra cars and the other time consuming things that go along with a special event. 

I will disagree about the casual fan though.   If they leave without getting to see the main event of the top division, they left unhappy.  

Love Knoxville,  think it is the greatest dirt track in the country, but always become disappointed when anyone engages in back gate promoting and waters down the entertainment value at the expense of the fans.  

Amen to that and what Sam said.

Vande77:  Eagle had 30 NSL 410's, w/ time trials, 3 heats, B-main,  and A-main  (yes they did the draw  during intermission as well as some games for the fans-probably 45 minutes or so) the  A-Main had 4 early cautions, then ran an awesome race with three lead changes on the final lap..... w/only one support class w/ 2 heats and a main.......started time trials at 7:30 (weeknight) and was done before 10:30 (even with taking the long intermission (looking forward to their return in September).....the following night for our weekly show, we had 142 cars in 5 classes (28 Racesaver sprints) 16 heats, 1 C, 4 B's, and 5 A's......started at 6:30 and was done at 10:30............by the way....a local racesaver 305 timed in 1.3 seconds off the NSL 410 pole time (Brian Brown) and actually passed some cars in the NSL B Main...LOL.........SC 

Super Chuck/Sam said it best.   I consider Knoxville to be the elite dirt track in the country,  rivaled only by Eldora.   If anyone can pull in the average fan and increase awareness/fan participation it is those two.    Smoke/Slaack seem to be doing very good things in that department the last couple of years (NASCAR trucks, USAC/WoO double header/Prelude to the Dream) and I consider a 6+ hour show with 3 opening acts to be a detriment towards that cause.     I criticize because I expect better and I expect better because I know they can.  

1.3 Seconds while not bad is still quite a bit on such a small track. Bring the two to Knoxville and were talking the difference between Browns 14.7 in hot laps and the 305s (nonracesavers) 17.0

Excellent post all the way around. 

I am a diehard and I thought that there was a lot of wasted time.  Just because there were 98 sprint cars is not justification to run a slow program.  In fact, they should be doing just the opposite.

I have been to both Boone and Knoxville numerous times and Boone is generally a racier track than Knoxville overall. 

Boone is known for 6+ hour marathon shows and would be tickled pink to have 1/4 the paying customers (or 1/20th of the casual fans) that Knoxville has for an average show.  

I was only comparing them relative to ending time (since that seems to be the big bone of contention on here today).

Not sure if I'd call Boone "racier", but I'd definetely call it a demo derby (no matter what cars are racing).

Fair enough, however the times that I have been there it has no more wrecks than any other tracks.  Actually, they fewer than most, since they utilize a one spin-rule. 

I enjoy watching the races at both tracks. 

Listen...if you don't know facts please keep mouth shut.....305's have ALWAYS since day 1 timed during hot laps....360's do same 5 at a time and 410's are groups of 3....I sort of agree about the trucks however they only raced 2 heats and 1 feature...and it was actually great racing....so take them out and you save maybe half hour and you're still bitching.....can't help long red flags for crashes and clean up etc

And I applaud Knoxville for being a track to attract younger drivers to compete in the 305 class and build toward 360 and 410

Again, I apologized for my mis-information.  Please read everything before commenting. 

The 305's are just fine,  but IMHO they do not belong on a night when extra cars are expected and extra time will be needed.   Let them race Marshalltown or somewhere on this night.   Good race or not,  the trucks don't belong at a special either and only served to water down and extend the show.  Even if it was 45 minutes of hot laps. heats and feature,  that still would have put everyone on the road before midnight....but frankly a lot more could have been done to have everything done at a reasonable hour.  

If you think 6+ hour shows are fine....good for you.   Just don't tell me that you care about the future of the sport and don't ever bitch about low attendance or cost to the fans.  

I enjoyed Saturday night very much and yes I was at the track.....  Great turnout of Sprint cars and while I am not a big fan of the trucks, they only come once a year so I don't see that as a big deal.   $15 for that show is the biggest bargain in the racing world anywhere!  I also went to Osky on Wednesday night for the Sprint Invaders.  Osky had NO INTERMISSION and we were out in good time even though all the regular Osky classes also ran.  I wish that the people at Knoxville would monitor the time and shorten or skip intermission if the races are running late.  There was a long Red Flag period in the 410 Main but I would never want want them to hurry that when a driver is injured or possibly injured.  

I used to take my kids when they were young and they just laid down on the bleachers and went to sleep if it got too late for them.  Today they are both Sprint Car fans.

However, it does make sense for the track to get the races over at an earlier time if they want the younger couples to bring their kids.  Remember, they could of just cancelled that Kids Night since it was rained out 3 times.  Overall, I have never found a better track to watch Sprint Cars at than Knoxville Raceway and I have watched sprint car races at over 50 different tracks.

Nice to see some positive discussion here.  Here are some numbers I keep track of.

For weekly shows we averaged 75.7 cars in 2013, 83.7 cars in 2014, and we had 98 on this night plus 12 trucks. More cars equals more time. 

Fact: Group qualifying saves time. The average for the 2014 season for 410 cars was 27 seconds per car. At the WoO shows and Nationals with one at a time the average was 46 seconds per car.  What took longer on this past Saturday was 3 yellows and 1 red in time trials.  It's not the tracks fault that cars have mechanical problems and stop on the track.

In 2014 the average time for the final checkered flag was 10:55 for weekly shows. Trust me, management wasn't pleased about the late finish either.  It was a long combination of factors that all added up on this night.

Intermission was slighltly longer at 18 minutes, typically it is 15.

Lineups were difficult to get out as well with so many cars in the 305 and 360 class being DQ's in time trials for tires and such. That had the scorers scrambling, along with the redraw and how that worked for all three classes.

The track did take a little longer to roll in than usual with the first set of cars pushing off at 6:58pm.  The average start time in 2014 was 6:52pm. They shoot for 6:45 but it's difficult with several teams showing up at the last minute to get into the pit area.  With that many cars everything takes longer.  We had a 4th heat for the 360s and B-Main which we don't usually have.

With the skies overcast most of the day I think that played a huge factor. Track prep is a difficult art form and most nights the Dunkin crew get it right.  On this night the track didn't want to widen out so there were extra laps before all the features for the cars to help widen it out. In the end we saw some great racing with lead changes in all features.

Eric Arnold
Social Media Manager & Track Historian
Knoxville Raceway

Agreed IADIRT......the racing is all relative to he size of the track.....I'm sure she just wanted some seat time and wasn't really expecting to compete with the "Big Dog's....maybe some day).......the 410's, while fast, seemed a bit tight of of 4 , with a real deep cushion, and couldn't get close to Sammy's 11.07 track record....... Also have to agree with SprintFan1.....there was no new blood in the sprint ranks over in NE due to the rising costs and intimidating competion of the veterans,  and now there are probably 12-15 newcaomers in the last couple years that actally can compete with some of the veteraan 360 guys that are now back racing Racesaver.....one thing is for sure, the good drivers with a good set-up will still win newby or veteran.........No worries, it's all good......In September, the annual Nebraska Cup (formerly ASCS) will be an all sprint show  w/ NSL 410 and SSN (Sprint Series of Nebraska Racesaver traveling series) and should be a great show (no fenders allowed-ala the Rumble in the Bullring w/ USAC and SSN a couple weeks ago).............SC

Knoxville has been in need of a track manager for years.  You should NEVER start late unless you have a problem.  Then you hope you are only 5 to 10 minutes late.  Knoxville has lost 100's of casual fans over the years because of a poor ran show.  You can have an intermission every single night and still be done by 10 to 10:30 every night.  There have been numerous nights where I wanted to go to Knoxville and watch but I can't take my kids and have them sit thru a 5 hour show.  I can't handle to watch a 5 hour show myself unless I am going to see 30 to 40 plus races.  Knoxville Fairboard should have hired a smart manager years ago and they would be going strong every week because they have a great car count and the best facility in the Midwest.  Hopefully they read this stuff and hire a competent race director and let him be in charge and don't let the people that have been there for years override him.  Knoxville has a weekly show gold mine if they would open their eyes.