Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

david, if you say you can read, my apologies.

it seems that comprehension is your problem.

i am not making excuses for anyone. there are different interpretations to rules by different people at times. sometimes people who push the limits are ultimately found to have gone too far, sometimes not.

i can't admit that everyone is cheating in some way, because i don't in fact know that, and neither do you.

you seem to really have a warped idea of racing in general. do you belong to one of those teams who gets their butts kicked every week no matter how much they cheat to try to keep up? is that why you are so bitter? i have seen team who cheat that think everyone else must be cheating more because no matter how much they cheat, they still get beat.

i still would really like to know why no one can seem to answer my questions of where teams are hiding TC and how they are getting it by the tech people.

all i am getting is people trying to deflect.

to indy and beyond!!

David Foley

"Just let me make it to the Dirt Track.. Truck then u 
can break down!!!"

i only asked if you were one of those teams who got their ass kicked, i never accused you of being one.

since you are with one of the top teams., according to some people on here, you are a cheater.

as a matter of fact you said that people who are consistently winning are cheating somehow. so tell me, just how were you cheating?

you should be attacking those people, not me who is someone saying in my experience the top teams i have known play fair.

to indy and beyond!!

IMO, there are three types of drivers.

1. The guys that are currently cheating

2. The guys who have been caugh so many times cheating in the past that the tech officals won't let them cheat any more.

3. The guys who do not cheat but who are running so poorly that they should start.

i already explained my statement. i had hoped you understood. i think you do.

as far as my calling out single file, he made a blanket statement and collectively called out a whole group as cheaters. all i am trying to do is see if he even understands what he is talking about. does he even know what is involved and if the situation is policed or how? he made a statement that could lead some to believe the woo are just letting people do what they want. we in fact had someone say they had never see woo check for TC. now i can't say what in fact is going on any more than anyone else can about the use of TC, but i do know that i have seen the woo try to police the use of TC.

the same thing with wrench_23. he said that if someone is consistently winning they are cheating. why is he making a blanket statement like that? then he goes and tells me he is on a team that is constantly a top team. according to his prior statement, he would be on a team that cheats since he is on a top team. maybe that is why he thinks all top teams cheat.

to indy and beyond!!

The wrench on the Oklahoma tidbits forum.

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

Jeeze this forum has turned into third grade. You're dummy. Oh Huh! Anyhow, here's what I know and I don't own a car now, I did own and drive a 360 and try to keep up on what goes on. As many have said, look up Davis Technologies, there's a lot of info there. Here's what I understand. It is located in the control box (referred to as "the box" for the MSD magneto that is virtually universal in the sprint car world. When the box senses a sudden rise in RPM it retards the timing to cut horsepower. Everyone calls it traction control but since there are no wheel sensors involved folks decided that the Davis-altered MSD box was really just Timing Control so they (tracks and sanctioning bodies) can ignore it since it is so hard to actually spot. Traction control is illegal, but timing control is another story. Tech sessions that I've been a part of strictly involve the engine and not the ignition. Stack and injector measurement, where applicable, in the case of ASCS, they have gauges that sneak through the injector to measure port size and mirrors to make sure the ASCS logo in the cylinder head is not altered. Occasionally they will do what is called "pumping the engine" to check for cubic inches. The Sprint Invaders in Iowa/Illinois do that regularly. I've never seen anyone take a box off, take it apart and look inside or take the cap off the magneto for that matter. Sammy may have been trying to stir things up but I'd be willing to bet that the majority of the top local and touring teams are on Davis's customer list. Take some time and do some research, instead of arguing and name calling. You're on the internet anyway.

i don't know about the series that you are involved in but as far as i know the ones i am familiar with consider any electrical devise that can control the spinning of the rear wheels to be traction control.

as i have said, i have seen the woo ask for the ignition box and the tach out of cars. it is my understanding that if you have the right test equipment it is possible to detect the TC at work. if you take the cover off of an ignition box and there is a battery in it or connections for a battery, there is a pretty good chance something funny is going on. there is no need for a battery in there. as a matter of fact, if the box has screws or bolts holding the cover on instead of the factory rivets there may be something funny going on since there are no user serviceable parts in the ignition box that is why teams from what i understand started installing the TC in the tach. because there is a battery in the tach and it doesn't raise as much suspicion. still from what i understand, if you run the proper electrical test, you can detect the TC.

i also have heard that it is possible to bury the TC inside the motor some how. i though i heard it could be crank triggered, but i would think there would have to be wiring going to the distributor or the ignition box. i really don't know much about that.

to indy and beyond!!

Just a thought and I am not saying anyone is cheating in anyway, Just maybe Sammy said what he did to stir the morons up so they didnt look for other things.

LETS RACE BOYS

Damn people Sammy's traction control is onboard adjustable shocks. Go watch a movie or something.

But what fun would that be.......Im sure Sammy is getting a kick out of it today as people go ape shit.

I don't aim to please.
I aim to hit the target.

i am just asking a question here. when you say "on board adjustable" do you mean cockpit adjustable?

isn't the top wing the only cockpit adjustable devise allowed?

i was under the impression cockpit adjustable shocks were not allowed.

to indy and beyond!!

As I said earlier, I suspect you are just trying to be argumentative just for the sake of being argumentative. IMO, TC is common on the Outlaw tour, on the Lucas Oil Late Model tour, the Northeast Modified SDS tour, and a hell of lot of other places where there is big money on the line. Yea, I get the argument that no one buys the products Davis Technologies produces and no one uses T.C. But the company somehow manages to stay in business even though no one ever buys their products or uses them.

What exactly did you mean when you said earlier that most top teams are "pretty legit?" That seems akin to being a little bit pregnant. A team is either legit or it's not. "Pretty legit" seems like an open admission that everything isn't exactly on the up and up.

Exactly....he was talking about his Super Shox and they have a dial on them...turn the dial to help dial the shocks in for better traction = traction control.

www.ibracn.com
#PaulsToTheWall
GO SAMMY!

I think that Sammy TC is his right foot. No battery needed. I he said recently that he only drove the car 65%. Back when TC first came out you could stand in corner of infield and hear the motor slow in a dry track. I think also Sammy did say this to get people to talk about it. One way to end it would be that all WOO points be taken away, but that assumes that people do use it. The only way to keep something like this a secret is to be the only one one team that knows it. People on teams come and go, and some would spill about TC

i never said that no one used TC. also there are series and classes that it is legal in.

i have already explained my comment about the top teams i know being legal.

maybe i used the wrong wording when i said "pretty much", as i can't be 100% sure what someone is doing 100% of the time. i have already said that i agree that most people have tried something at some point in time that they know they shouldn't. my point was that the top teams i have known that are successful are not cheaters by habit.

i may have known teams that figured how to get past the sound limit rules or tire or fuel rules at some time, but i have to say that was rare and more of an experiment than anything. not something done on a regular basis. most teams that are fast just figure out how to be fast and have a driver that can make the car fast. i have heard a story that people thought karl kinser was cheating with motors or people thought he had so much more HP than anyone else, only to find carl was down 50 hp. he just knew how to make the car work and had a good driver.

you have changed your statement somewhat to say in your opinion TC is in broad use in some series. well you are entitled to your opinion. i have seen the woo sprint series take the electronics from teams out of their cars to check them, so in my opinion the woo is at least trying to police the situation. they may not be able to totally stop it, but they can make the teams try harder to hide it. at some point it might not be worth the effort to try to get it past the tech guys. you don't think the tech people can talk to the people making the TC devises and find out what is out there and then try to figure out how to defeat it? for all we know davis can be playing both sides!

for someone to make the statement that teams that are winning on a consistent basis are cheating is just not fair.

to indy and beyond!!

We do use a crank trigger and the mag. We can switch from 28deg. to 34 deg with the flip of a switch. You cannot have TRACTION control with out a mechanical trigger.

Sprints rule

what you have is not traction control, although i am not sure that was what you were implying. from what you say you have to manually switch the timing control. there are quite a few people running what you are running. it is not illegal.

you can in fact have "traction control" without a crank trigger. the electronic devise that is, most often from what i know, mounted in the ignition box senses the rapid rpm rise and retards the ignition automatically to control rpm, thus controlling wheel spin. most series that i am aware of would call that illegal.

to indy and beyond!!

Yes - Sammy is running a 3-Part Traction Control unit. Very innovative...

1. Super Shocks

2. Heavy Right Foot

3. A Ball Sack bigger than a wheelbarrow

Do you find the humor in that?

Go Sammy!