Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Yea, this trying to put the situation in "perspective" but pointing out the equipment was good is insane.

Try this, put Sheppard or Owens in Larson or Sweet's sprint car and see if they can set fast time or keep the entire field behind them for the whole A main. They'd be lapped by half way.

There is no invert and feature lineup is based on heat finish.  He was quick time in qual group B so he started on the pole of heat 4 and won that.  Feature lined up by heat finish with cars from heats 1-3 on the inside and heats 4-6 on the outside.  So he started on the outside of the front row of the feature.

Unfamilar car?  I don't know that I would go that far. I understand he had a very solid amount of practice in that car before he ran it and also had the benefit of some really good coaching both during practice and during the race itself. He admitted in victory lane they were telling him what to do but that's not at all unusual in the late model world. The infield is always lined with crew members and their signaling sticks. There is no doubt the transition from sprint cars to late models is easier than trying to do the reverse and he's definitely not the first sprint car driver to win in a late model. At this level, yes I'll give you that. My point about him having a good car is just that - his car was really good. That car belonged in victory lane. If it wasn't, there was a problem. As I mentioned, that teams' cars swept both races and they were the best cars of the weekend hands down. If you put Larson in say Earl Pearson's (top 5 Sat night) car does he win?  No. Earl moved forward Sat night and his car looked OK but just OK. Even starting on the front row  Earl's car isn't going to victory lane. There is absolutely no doubt Larson can drive and he got it done Sat night but call it for what it is. He had a really good car, started at the front and wheeled the thing around there to the win. He first had to have a car capable of winning and he did. Give some credit to Kevin Rumley for giving Kyle one fast piece. You take the quality of that car down a notch or two and it's a different outcome. I'm not a Kyle hater I'm just calling it like I see it. I still want to see more of him in a late model. How about running both at the World Finals?  Now that would be fun!   

He won his pole position by posting fast time. Same rules for everyone, he was the best

Unfamilar car?  I don't know that I would go that far. I understand he had a very solid amount of practice in that car before he ran it and also had the benefit of some really good coaching both during practice and during the race itself. He admitted in victory lane they were telling him what to do but that's not at all unusual in the late model world. The infield is always lined with crew members and their signaling sticks. There is no doubt the transition from sprint cars to late models is easier than trying to do the reverse and he's definitely not the first sprint car driver to win in a late model. At this level, yes I'll give you that. My point about him having a good car is just that - his car was really good. That car belonged in victory lane. If it wasn't, there was a problem. As I mentioned, that teams' cars swept both races and they were the best cars of the weekend hands down. If you put Larson in say Earl Pearson's (top 5 Sat night) car does he win?  No. Earl moved forward Sat night and his car looked OK but just OK. Even starting on the front row  Earl's car isn't going to victory lane. There is absolutely no doubt Larson can drive and he got it done Sat night but call it for what it is. He had a really good car, started at the front and wheeled the thing around there to the win. He first had to have a car capable of winning and he did. Give some credit to Kevin Rumley for giving Kyle one fast piece. You take the quality of that car down a notch or two and it's a different outcome. I'm not a Kyle hater I'm just calling it like I see it. I still want to see more of him in a late model. How about running both at the World Finals?  Now that would be fun!   

https://www.floracing.com/articles/6776902-kevin-rumley-not-surprised-by-kyle-larson-at-port-royal

So, you're saying Kyle should hold off for a ride with second rate equipment so he can prove his worth?  Why would Kyle not jump into top notch equipment?  There were about 20 guys in that field that would not have made the trip without top-notch equipment.  They were there to win and there is no chance of that in a second rate ride.  I don't understand your point at all. 

And he had a "very solid amount of practice"-----??  Practice?  I know a couple of late-model drivers and they are blown away by the fact that he was able to do what he did.  They have driven local late models for decades and said they would have had a hard time staying on the lead lap if plopped into that "unbeatable" car with those guys behind.  I'm sorry, but I could not disagree with you more than I do.  Kyle is going to get top equipment, in every discipline, in every race he attends for quite a long time.  But to continue to have onlookers claim his equipment is so superior that everyone would win in it, is silly.  It brings me back to David Gravel at the Knoxville Nationals in 2019.  Axalta paid JJ racing big $$ I'm sure to put their name on the car and give it a pretty paint job.  Folks were saying "well, anyone would win with Jeff Gordon backing it financially"   They paid for a pretty paint job.  Do you think David Gravel's car is any less competitive without the pretty paint job?  The equipment JJ Racing uses is top of the line.  

Sorry, we are once again not on the same page.  No problem though, we don't have to agree

When I say he had a superior car I think you are implying something that isn't intended. There are many teams that have equipment every bit as good. I never said nor implied that he has equipment no one else has. When I saw he had a superior car what I'm referring to his how his car handled. The car was set up beautifully. His car appeared to have no issues. Brandon, for instance, struggled on the restarts. Fri night McCreadie had the superior car. Owens remarked Fri night he has nothing for McCreadie. Sat night it was Larson. Both are Rumley cars and this team nailed the weekend.  My point is the decisions the crew makes about set up matter and that crew did a great job this weekend. Everyone seems to want to give Kyle full credit for putting that car in victory lane. I'm saying that car was very good and belonged there. No doubt Kyle got the job done and put it in victory lane but he couldn't have done it without them. It goes both ways. If the crew isn't that big of a deal and set up isn't critical so all it takes is putting Kyle in top notch equipment, by that definition he should have won everything he entered regardless of division over the last few years.  Give the crew the credit they deserve.  If you can't acnknowledge the crew's role in this win and that they deserve some credit, we definitely do not agree but as you said, we don't have to. Hopefully at some point before the end of the season Kyle gets back in a late model. 

Agree, the setup of the car was very good.  However, I believe you are implying because he put it in victory lane, no one else could have possibly made the correct decisions and nailed the setup----because they didn't look like they were on rails. Would it be far fetched to say 10 other crews made nearly identical setup choices with great equipment?   It has become apparent to me that Kyle's crew, in no matter what car he drives, can miss the setup and still take it to victory lane.  I have seen his car out of shape and to the front just as many times as I've seen him run a flawless car and take it to the front.  He does not need the best setup----we should all know that by now.  

Let's compare Thursday night Saturday night.  They nailed McCreadie's car but not Kyle's?  McCreadie started with track position and had a flawless race.  Meanwhile, Kyle picked off cars to where he was in position for a possible 2nd place finish before he pounded the wall.  He passed Owens 2 times-----the best in the business right now.  That was with a car that "missed" the setup.  Fast forward to Saturday night.  McCreadie got nowhere near 2nd place.  Even though he finished in the same position Saturday night as Larson Thursday night, he was never a threat to get to the front.  I believe no one has the ability to make a car look hooked up and on rails as Larson does.  He has won 34 or 35 races in 4 different types of cars in 6 different sanctioning bodies this year.  No one can continue to tell me he has    1.  Superior equipment at every event---maybe the best of the best, but not superior to what others are running.  2.  His crew always nails the setup over every other crew.  That's all just silly and unrealistic.  

Did Rumley nail the setup all weekend better than any other crew?  Possibly.  How would we ever know?  Kyle could have been .2 quicker in Owen's car.  We don't know.  Bottom line, the sample size is big enough now to stop saying he's getting lucky.  

(BTW---I appreciate the friendly debate without any name calling.  Refreshing for once)   

I don’t follow the dirt late models as religiously as I do sprint cars, I know Schatz has won some late model races, mostly in his home state, but was wondering has he ever won a feature with Lucas Oil or the WoO Late Model series?

Never won a WOOLMS feature, but I do believe he has had a few top 10's amd maybe one top 5.

Just for record McCready had issues earlier in the night and I think started 25th with a provisional.

He led some laps and got a 3rd once at River Cities I think.

Here's something for people who know LM better than me. How much of Schatz's struggles in a LM surround him doing it with his own team? How much better would he be in the Rumley 6? Not saying he'd win like Larson, but would he do alot better?

Not sure if I would call Schatz LM experience as struggles. He ran respectable just about every time he tried it. Won a race or 2 out in his home area I believe. Not sure who he had for crew members on his own team but I'd say he'd probably do better with an experienced crew like the 6. Seems like Larson can jump in any kind of race car against the toughest competetion and put it in VL. To me that's very impressive. We have some pretty strong LM teams in central PA who have many laps at Port Royal and it was tough for them just to make the A main.