Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Don't forget about Daryn Pittman either. I can't even imagine how he must feel right now. I'm sure this is very tough for him. 

I keep seeing references to the "steel beams" and the catch fence not being directing above the concrete walls. Whenever I'm in the pits at a sprint car race I'm constantly looking at frames of these cars thinking how could they be safer. That being said I was watching dirtvision live when it happened and I saw the youtube clip while it was posted... and it immediately had my mind racing. It appears to me the hardest blow was the car contacting the concrete wall before launching into the air and eventually the billboards. The point of this reply isn't to speculate what caused Jason's death but how we could learn from this, prevent similar accidents, and prevent any track bashing towards Beaver Dam. 

In my opinion I dont believe moving the catch fence closer to the concrete wall would've change the outcome. The catch fence being closer or on top of the wall just would've stopped him more abruptly without changing the fact he hit a concrete wall, at top speed, at a bad angle. Short-track/dirt racing will always have questionable safety until all tracks implement some sort of soft-wall seen at all NASCAR tracks. I know this is difficult as most dirt tracks probably lack funding for all of this but how many times have we seen it save a NASCAR driver? Obviously open wheel racing will always present more risks than stock car racing but its a start...

Mansfield is one of the few dirt tracks I know that uses safer barrier technology. This is due to the fact they hosted the NASCAR truck series prior to it being converted back to a dirt track in 2017. https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/richlandsource.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/f/40/f406654a-b430-11e7-8a87-d3fe662e380e/59e79c4234314.image.jpg?resize=1700%2C1131

Heres an example of a soft-wall absorbing a ton of energy in a head on collision during a NASCAR truck series race: https://cdn.racingnews.co/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/Safer-barrier-flex.jpg

There's a somewhat cruel quote that comes to mind when I see wrecks like this... "Speed has never killed anybody, suddenly becoming stationary is what will get you." I hope people aren't offended by this quote or think that is comes from poor taste. I just truly believe that any measure taken to reduce sudden impact in wrecks like this could make a difference in the future. A soft wall could've absorbed a large amount of energy, instead it was transfered directly to the frame of the car. While Beaver Dam doesn't have soft walls or safer barrier technology.... hardly any dirt tracks in the country do either. From all of this I hope dirt track owners and promoters attempt to take the steps to make their facilities safer for the sport we all love so much.

Lastly, my thoughts have been and will continue to be with Jason's family, friends, & fellow competitors; especially Bobbi, Jaxx, and Daryn Pittman. Godspeed #41

Up to 18k already. The Racing community always comes through.

Our prayers go out to family, friends and his fans.  We'll say a prayer and lite a candle at church next Sunday in his honor.  Nearly 250 feature wins I believe, plus of course he was our 2016 Knoxville Nationals champion, sprint car racing's World Series.  I'll never forget listening to Dirt Vision and Johnny's call of the last lap.  

 Lawlessness and liberalism equals Hell.  NY City, 
Detroit, Seattle, Chicago, Minnepolis, etc. We saw it. 
Burning hundreds of buildings, a thousand assaults and 
dozens of murders. Getting worser and worser.

We were trying to figure out first why the 4x4s didn't break and then why they could cut the wood to get car out from in between the billboards... Putting no blame on anyone here but there shouldn't be 6 or 8 steel beams holding up plywood signs anywhere near a racetrack... RIPJJ

Amen to this, there isn't a guy in those puts I'd trust racing with more than Daryn Pittman,,, I've never seen him make a shitty move on anyone and from what I saw he did nothing wrong here, total racing deal... They were both just racing... From the way it appeared to me was JJ was almost surprised the 9 car was there and probably got his left front into the right rear of the 9... Just a really bad deal. Prayers to the family and to everyone in this community!!! 

I think it is now up to the track, the WoO and other officials to determine as best they can what the primary cause of Jason's injuries were the result of.  some of us, myself included early on, have speculated far too much already. As is always the case in deals like this, it takes the "pefect storm" to result in such a tragedy. In some cases, certain "perfect storms" can be diagnosed and maybe prevented in the future. But in all walks of life and even in simple day to day life, there will always be that "perfet storm" that will raise it's ugly head. Again, continued prayers to Jason's family and friends, To Darrin Pittman and the entire WoO organization and those who promote and work at Beaver Dam Raceway.

As I said previously, I think the WoO need to start taking a closer look at the facilities they're racing at in light of this tragedy. Here in Central Pa, we have a big fast half mile with drag strips for straightaways that has a big blue bridge totally exposed right in the middle of the backstretch. It's only a matter of time until something bad happens with that. People have been talking about it for years yet it's still there. That's just one example of something obvious that needs to be fixed. 

My experience with fast machines goes back to working on the catapult crew of a carrier.  Despite meticulous preventive maintenance and safety procedures the speeds and confined space resulted in unanticipated accidents.

In some respects 410 winged sprints are so fast these days that they're approaching that level of unpredictability.  The things that are not a concern for the weekly stock car and modified shows might need closer scrutiny for sprints.  I'm not doing any finger pointing but just saying that the cars have gotten to a place where all possibilities need to be considered. 

I have been fortunate in that I was showered in shrapnel by exploding aircraft but not seriously injured.  On the racing side I have never witnessed anything serious at any race I have attended.  That includes cageless cars of the 60s to the present at 40 tracks and 15 years of writing and photos.  Judging by the reaction of witness comments I feel very fortunate to have not experienced anything like what happened this weekend.

Some good in the form of safety improgements always comes out of these things and that is what I hope for in this case.  

Stan Meissner

Exactly what I was trying to say but as usual, you said it better than I ever could. I agree 100%. It's time to start looking at what COULD happen, not just what HAS happened. Consider all possibilities and take measures to reduce or totally eliminate a potential hazard. I realize that there's monetary costs involved with updated fencing etc. but I think, like you, that we have come to a point where odds have greatly increased that a sprint car will for instance, flip up into the bridge at Williams Grove with potentially deadly consequences. Cars have already hit it numerous times and thankfully, luck was on their side every time but keep rolling the dices and eventually they'll land on snake eyes. Due to the unpredictability you mentioned, sprint cars will always be among the most dangerous racecars on the planet and there will undoubtedly be serious accidents with serious injuries but I think we have to start somewhere. I've been to about 50-60 different dirt tracks in my life and I've seen many with obvious safety concerns that seem to be overlooked or just accepted. We all know the WoO lead the way and if they start raising these concerns, we'll no doubt see positive changes happening. I hope we look back years from now and remember Jason as the awesome racer and person that he was but that we also talk about how his untimely passing brought forth positive changes that saved other drivers lives.

Watching countless NASCAR wrecks with and without soft walls I completely agree with you that they should be in any racing series where there is signifigant speed.  My only question is, do you think the way they are designed in NASCAR would still work on dirt?  I just wonder about dirt getting packed behind them if it would hinder their performance?  I'm sure it would still be better than the wall that doesn't move now though.

Sad deal no doubt.

When it comes to safety you can only predict so much then as another poster said there is the perfect storm no-one thot possible and we all start the conversation again.

If the track had been 2 ft wider they may not have pinched Johnson. But it wasnt 2 ft wider.

If the fence had continued into the corner he may have rolled along the track surface but then someone may have hit him.

If the posts were back 10 ft this accident may not have been as tragic but a different accident may have been worse.

If the drive way wasnt there and the concrete wall was continued into the corner he likely would have bounced off the wall and stayed on the racing surface, but the driveway is there.

We can say 100 what ifs but sometime the other design leads to other problems.

I do know that there are some obvious things that need to be dealt with here and there but i do think the group who decided to use ibeams as fence posts that distance from the wall did so after discussing if it was safe or not. I would like to think everything around the facility includes that discussion. A decision was made and maybe it has saved lives up until now.

Not to be long winded and pointout every situation, i just want us to consider that decisions are made and every one of them will have a down side. In this case a terrible down side. Without the beams keeping him from exiting the track who knows what could have happened beyond.

It is what it is. And it is terrible. And some things can be prevented but some things will never be prevented.

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

AMA flat track motorcycle racing  uses a air fence at their tracks.  An inflatable contraption that takes the place of some of the hay bales.  I wonder if a beefed up version of that could be applied to dirt tracks.  They also transport it from event to event in their series.  I have no idea if it would work.  Just throwing it out as an idea.  

I don't get to many races these days in person.  I still try to follow as much as I can online though.  I did go to a 410 race at Jackson last year though and could not believe how fast they were going, you don't get the speed sensation watching a video of the races.  I completely agree with you that these cars are aproaching unpredictability, if they're not already there.  With one slight mistake they go from planted racecar to an uncontrolled airplane. 

There's lots of talk about rule changes to save money, make better racing etc.  Maybe it's time to make some rule changes for the purpose of slowing these cars down?  As far as I know almost every other professional racing series has taken steps to slow their cars down at some point, F1, IRL, NHRA, NASCAR.  That's never been done with the WOO at any point that I know of other than a weight rule, which I don't know if that was about speed or cost.

I don't get to many anymore either.  One race earlier this season hanging around in the pits and I was going to go to the Outlaws in two weeks at Cedar Lake but decided to sit it out this year.  I got invited to a private party at a barn remodeled with sound stage.  My son-in-law's band is playing and an old friend I haven't seen in years is going to be there.  Ironically it's only a few miles from where the Outlaws will be racing.  I was going to watch on Dirtvision on Friday and dig my camera out of mothballs and get some Outlaw shots Saturday.  I'm just not feeling the racing bug right now so I'll give it some time and get out later this summer.

My point of comparing it to carrier operations was the unpredictabily but I was not offering solutions.  Sometimes as I saw in my younger years when machinery is fast and powerful it has a way of seeking out and finding the weak links.  That's what I mean by unpredictability.  I'm not in the business of inspecting or giving recommendations on racing, I'll leave that up to the people in the know.  They have a lot more at stake than I do.

Stan Meissner

That is a good point. I wonder if Mansfield made any modifications when the track was converted backed to dirt. Regardless I'm sure they could design something that could work.