Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

It's also tough to make that argument.  How do we know that?  Things are so different.  Tony may have given them a beat-down.  We don't, and will never, know.   Those that have the opinion that Larson is the best driver ever, may be correct.  We don't know and never will.  Both sides have some very valid points.  I personally don't think he is there-----------yet.  I may be of the opinion that he is the best ever in 10 years.  It also has nothing to do with how many Daytona 500's, Indy 500's, Nascar Championships, Knoxville Nationals, or King's Royals he wins.  I will look at the whole body of work.  The Daytona 500 is mostly luck.  The talent at the King's Royal is similar to about any WoO race in the Ohio or PA area---nothing separates it from other events run at or near Eldora other than the big check.  The Indy 500---same.  All of the same guys show up for the Indy 500 that run at every other event across the country.  Nascar Championships are watered down garbage that are not a reflection of how well you ran the season.  It's not like the old days. 

So, trying to compare drivers who did this and did that back in the day to drivers today, is simply not going to yield fair results.  He has to be judged in the era he is in.  

Everything you say is correct.  I loved watching Steve.  However, I have to ask the question----when Kinser came from the back through a field of cars, do you think it held the same weight as coming through a field of cars today?  I will argue that superior equipment in combination with great talent would allow Kinser to stomp on almost everyone.  You come from deep in the field in a World of Outlaws race today, that's something special.  Watching Wolfgang, Sammy, and Kinser fly through fields of cars that were, as Brad Doty put it, equivalent to today's 305's, was fun, but it was not a true measuring stick to compare to drivers like Larson.  Hell, I'll go ahead and say it----Donny Schatz's career may be more impressive than Kinsers if you really take a good hard look at the last 1/2 of it.  Sorry to piss off the sprint car world there----and I'm not even a fan of Donny's.  But it may be true.  We'll never really know, but the argument can be made and both sides would have valid points.  

OK, but it was still fun to watch!

Drivers in each of there times had equipment that was so different than what guys strap into today. The speeds were slower, the cars heavier, tires you could drive nails into. Hinnershitz, in a open wheel car was amazing, the guy won everything just about. 

These cars today in comparison to what the heroes of yesteryear raced are beasts. They are so much faster, the HP a midget and sprint car makes is unbelievable. 

I say enjoy watching Yung Money as much as you can. Hendrick motorsports  has obviously given Kyle the freedom to do what he loves. But, even he knows were his livelihood is, and that can all come crashing down with 1 tubble. If he would miss races in nascrap due to a dirt mishap you bet Hendrick motorsports pulls the plug. 

The guy has a feel, it is a talent that is like non other. He can go from a midget to his cup car and be a contender every time he pulls those belts tight. Could he be a champion if he concentrated on one series, will see come November, but I believe so.

Does it matter that the 5 does not have a primary sponsor? 

Within hearing distance of Tri City Speedway

Very, very good point.  Would a primary sponsor squash the sprint car racing to protect their investment?  Or, would a primary sponsor see an additional market they could tap into by allowing him to run grass roots?  

I guess all of you didn't listen or watch the videos of Tony and Hewitt saying Larson is the best they have seen. Tony said "hell no I am not better than him" so go unwittingly about your day pondering crap, but this came from smokes and Jack's mouth! Cheers

Where's my beer or scotch on the rocks? God-damn it! 40 
plus years of dirt track racing in these old veins might 
get me condemned by the EPA.

very valid point... if a primary sponsor couldnt see the benifit of larson running in a bunch of grass roots events, they probaably are not a very good company.   ii dare say that larson may have gained 5x as much fans as he had prior to his unreal run in 2020...me being one of them.

Depends on the sponsor. Hendick footing the bill has had a couple of good side effects for dirt fans. 1) Hes probably not paying Larson a whole lot of guaranteed money, which lowers his ability to dictate that Larson can't go run dirt, and 2) because Larson isn't making $8 million a year anymore, the side income he makes from dirt might Be more meaningful than it was. Obviously $6k is a drop in the bucket for him, but it prepares him to go after the bigger money shows in the summer.

No joke!  Is it just me, or does there seem to be a renewed interest in Nascar for 2021?  Do you think the thick heads at Nascar are able to recognize the reason behind this?  There is a lot more chatter on social media.  There seems to be (even with some tracks still in attendance restrictions) better attendance than in years past.  When I go to the local bar, guys are talking about the races on Sunday again.  I predicted Larson and Bell would raise Nascar from the dead about 5-6 years ago.  My prediction may have been a little premature, and the verdict is still out on Bell, but Larson is becoming a must watch on Sundays and I feel like more of the old Nascar fans are tuning back in----at least the ones I know.

Is anyone else noticing this in their small world?  Don't get me wrong, Sundays are still nowhere near the level of methanol on Saturday night under the lights.  However, I have not missed many laps on Sunday now that Larson is back in the field and is making the waves we all knew he would make 10 years ago.  90% of the field would wreck when getting the car as out of shape as he does.  Not only does he not wreck, he manages to maintain speed and complete the pass with the car unhooked.  The time he spends in the seat sliding a car through the corners is giving him an advantage on Sunday.  Sure the equipment of Hendrick seems to be a step ahead right now, but the little extra Kyle is getting is coming from racing non-stop.  JMO

yup...even my brother in law, who is no fan of NASCAR, has made comments about his nascar exploits.   he has made the cup race must see tv for race fans.  but once he is out( like at Talladega) im out...just dont care enough about the overall product of NASCAR.  just love seeing Kyle put the hurtin on em

Good point.  Same for me-------when Kyle has an issue that takes him out of contention, I may tune in for the last 5 laps, but that is it.  

He was also very competitive at Eldora last weekend in the late model.  That is a very impressive feat.  Already a few wins in that car & then shows up to the big time event & is top 10 both nights.  Imagine a guy with fewer than 20 starts in a 410 showing at Knoxville & running top 10/top 5's.  That is pretty much the equivalent of what he did at Eldora.  

Times are different of course, but he is the modern day Foyt/Andretti type.  I have no doubt he has the skill to win in any type of race car given some time.  If he does the 500 someday, he would be a threat if given solid equipment.  

I don't know what these drivers aspire to nowdays.  I have no interest in oval track pavement racing anymore, whats the point?  I would hope these drivers can complete their careers on dirt without going corporate pavement paycheckin.... nothing good ever happens over there.  OK rant over....

"The Daytona 500 is mostly luck."???? Get real.... buying Lottery tickets is luck. Winning a race like that takes talent, knowhow & oversized gonads

To keep the list short: Mario: Indy & Daytona 500 wins, Formula1 World championship

AJ: FOUR Indy 500 wins, Daytona 500, 24 hrs. of LeMans

You can say all the disclaimers that you want, but the fact is that those guys won them & Tony didn't...

A great racer, for sure. Still a bit early, but he may go down as the most versatile driver ever.

To be the best, ya gotta beat the best.....it's a free country........

That said, is anyone but me concerned about him taking a $Million from the big boys on Sunday and then $5000 from the High School kid on Monday?

And:

Can you fairly compare Steve Kinser to anything since? No

But if you think Steve did all that he did with superior equipment and lack of competition, you are mistaken. There were plenty of good cars, good drivers, and good dollars thrown at him and they still couldn't beat him. Maybe not today's 20+ good cars but still at least 10 every year for 20 years.

Why does he need to be labeled, categorized or placed? Why not just watch...?

Even though I may not know you, I 
care what most of you think!

It was good to see Kyle get out of his slump last night, returning to victory lane after that disgusting 4th place finish at Sharon. 

Sorry, but when you have "races" at Talladega and Daytona, and you rely on what line is moving forward on the last lap, or who your "drafting partner" is, or if there are enough Toyotas, Chevys, or Fords around you to get you to victory, and hope not to get caught up in a 20 car pile up that happened 30 cars in front of you.................that is luck, not racing.  (remember the 5 or 6 year debacle where all the cars raced in pairs?..................WTF?)

Fact:  Almost every 1-time Nascar winner has come from Talladega or Daytona

Fact:  Almost every 1-time Nascar winner has never sniffed the top ten in points or been in the top 5 anywhere else but those 2 tracks.  Coincidence?  No.  They lucked into wins.  

This is why many put no weight on winning the Daytona 500 anymore.  It's a joke.  Winning almost every other track in Nascar is a bigger accomplishment, so if Kyle never wins the Daytona 500, it means nothing when judging his career.  Same as King's Royal.  The King's Royal is no more difficult to win than the Knight Before or the Joker's Wild.  Why does the King's Royal hold so much more weight to everyone?  I know it's a bigger check, but nothing was done that wasn't done any other night. 

There are no racing "majors" in Nascar----maybe in theory, but not in reality.  Winning at Phoenix, Michigan, or Martinsville carries the same weight as winning at Charlotte.  And to me, is more of an accomplishment than winning Daytona in Feb. 

While we're at it, why does everyone carry the Daytona 500 in such high regard vs. winning Daytona in July?    

I have noticed it too and I am sure there are a number of reasons with Larson being one of them. I think it had been since about 2014 since I had sat and watched a race start to finish and the only reason I would tune in is to see how Larson was doing. Last year with not much to do I started watching some races with an open mind and the racing on the track itself had gotten better. Nothing like the 80's and 90's but still better. I remember the races at Kansas and New Hampshire were actually competitive in a sense that their were guys battling for position and those are two of the most boring tracks. A lot of my friends who had given up on Nascar started talking about the race on Sunday. Couple of us are going to make a trip to the Michigan race in August now.

I dont get caught up in best ever talks because I find that people are prejudice to the guy who was competing during "their" era or during their youth. It is a little bit easier to compare AJ Foyt to someone he competed against versus him and Larson. Events over time change too. Back in the day the Daytona 500 was a huge accomplishment for various reasons now its whoever misses the multiple wrecks which is just a matter of where you are on the track and if you get the right push at the right time. The record book for Larson is still being written and I am just going to watch it happen and enjoy. Let all the others do the comparing.