Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I rest my case. You forgot to add Tyler Esh and Brad Howard to the list as well. From what I understand, Logan and Mike Wagner are seriously considering doing the ASCoC tour next year and I think it's only a matter of time until Zearfoss hits the road too. 

I love PA. It isn't perfect and I'm not a fanboy so I have zero issue with calling it like it is. I sincerely hope things rebound soon and our local scene starts going the other way. I've spend my life around the Central PA sprint car scene. Most of my fondest childhood memories have something to do with Port Royal or one of the other local tracks and no matter what, I'll always be Posse at heart but I don't sugar coat. If it stinks, it stinks and right now, Central PA is losing a lot of its mojo. I don't like it, but it is what it is.

GREAT point!

A

There's no doubt that your observations are correct. The big budget full time rides just don't exist anymore. The teams that have the means to hit the road are doing exactly that. However, a regular weekly show at any central PA track is still a damn good show and that's what it's all about. We've been obsessed with keeping up with the outlaws and that has hurt us way more than it's helped. 1 thing that OH and some other areas have on us is that their tracks are smaller and racier which also makes them much more cost effective and easier to compete with the big dogs. Too many 1/2's in PA. Selinsgrove for example is making an effort to improve by moving the pits outside and adding new red clay - good things sure but it was initially rumored that they were gonna cut the track size down a little also and now I just heard that rumor isn't true. WTF? Can't the people there read the writing on the wall??? Don't they want better car counts? Especially with 360's being your headliner! No one from Lincoln, Clinton County, NY 360's, no 358's even think about showing up there anymore because the size of the track, the motor it takes and $$$ it costs to run competetive there. This would be the ideal time for them to get an advantage and move into the 21st century. Smaller tracks are where it's at. Better racing, easier on the budget. When it comes to WG, Port and SG, SG is the 3rd wheel. The only chance they have to save the place is by making it smaller. I guess they won't do it because they are afraid they might lose a couple big budget guys who prefer the big track. For every car they might lose I bet they would gain 2. They must be satisfied with 18 360's and 10 SLM's. Unbelievable!

A

You guys are full of chit... There are big money owners still in central pa. There just taking there teams out on the road. The factor nobody has touched on and the reason they go out there is the SHOW money. You get show money and points money that adds up. These guys are spending just as much to run the central pa circuit so why not hit the road ? Bad night in PA you load the car up. Bad night on the road you at least get show money and show up points. 

You made the comparison son, and your pathetic attempt at sarcasm was completely false, that was my point. BTW nobody is disbuting any of the points you made, everyone agrees with you, Post after post after post making sarcastic saterical comments about it won't change a damn thing. Good on you for working 60 hrs a week but its hard to believe you even have a job as much time as you spend on here fixxering everything. Get ready fixxer I'm gonna blow your mind when I reveal the mystery behind why more young Pa talents are hitting the road. MONEY &  SHARK RACING is the short answer, Bobby Allen proved you can take 2 piece of shit cars in a barely running hauler with very little working cash on the road and make a living racing Instead of bleeding out and folding up running for peanuts at home.  Rest assured many of these teams will not be able to hack the travel and work load and will come home to entertain you and fill the fields.

 Weekly 410 points racing may become financially impossible for teams and tracks in the future, only time will tell. One thing is for certain as you have driven home, it will never be like it once was. Everyone has finally gotten what they wanted, Sprintcar racing is now mainstream and bigger than its ever been thanks to Smoke, Larson, etc and new and better TV coverage and ppv's and social media, sadly that much growth at the top usually causes some casualties at the bottom.  As 410 racing has grown more popular it draws bigger sponsors which in turn calls for bigger purses at bigger shows which drives teams to spend more to keep the precious sponsors on the car by winning races. The low budget guys at the bottom either find more money to stay competitive or they can fill the field getting lapped or move to a less expensive division or quit. So yeah, that's part of why we have smaller fields in Pa. as well.

Im done arguing about it, I'll try to ignore your next sarcastic rant about all the things you hate about Pa racing, oh that's right Rev said it was OK cuz of baseball or some stupid shit so it must be Ok.

You wanna know what's funny? You're so busy being angry at my sarcasm to see that I actually agree with you. You didn't blow my mind at all because I called it from day one when they announced they were going out with the WoO. I remember a good friend and I talking about it and I told him that if they were successful, it was gonna inspire a lot more people to do it and that it could pull some teams away from running locally. That is exactly what happened. The WoO has a nice system in place to put money back in the pockets of their teams whereas Central PA is for the most part stuck in the 1980's. Hopefully losing some teams will inspire the powers that be to start looking at the situation and see if they can keep some of those teams at home. Otherwise, the days of 100+ races a year and 3 full time 410 tracks will come to a halt. Don't be angry at me for merely seeing the writing upon the wall.

You nailed it. These half miles around here are becoming outdated. Smaller tracks are totally where it's at. I realize there's a lot of history surrounding these places but you also gotta be able to see that times are changing and adapt accordingly or history is all we'll have left. 

Well try living in some other parts of the country (except maybe Indiana or Ohio) & you'lll appreciate the Pa. scene more. I'm happy to drive 5 hrs. in the summers to see races in your home state

While the ASCOC is the wild card in this, what is interesting to me, is something with the WoO that I thought would never even be a consideration: What is their threshold for actual travelling Platinum teams?

There has to be a limit to how many teams they can handle giving the guaranteed money to for the season.  I know the number has been spitballed on this forum before, somewhere between 15-18 probably, but WoO has not put a limit on that number since they tried that Mean 15 thing about a dozen years ago, which they trashed because they couldn't keep 15 cars on the tour.   The sanctioning fee and series sponsorship money can only fund so many teams on a regular basis.  Although I find it amazing that this is something we might actually see happen in the near future.....could we see the WoO actually limiting how many Platinum contracts they  give out...ie, maybe actually rejecting an "application" in the future due to too many travellers?

Just look at where Williams Grove is at right now, Less then full fields for the 410's is the normanl for Friday nights. They draw better for the traveling teams of the WOO and All Stars. Port has dumped a ton of money into the track and it has become a premere race track, yet they have less the full fields. They have upped the game by having WOO and Lucas Oil Late Models plus STSS Modifieds. Lincoln has the better of weekly car counts (smaller track) but has seen at least 6 weekly cars either retire, go to the All Stars, or go elsewhere. We gain some new blood into the division, but after a season or 2 they move to the AllStars or WOO to get guarenteed money.Its sad to say but it seems like Central PA is set to become the minor leagues for the WOO and AllStars.

Actually looking at 410 trends around the country, I think it's logical that the WoO does whatever it can to attract more teams to the series. It won't be long and in several areas of the country there may not be any locals to draw into their field at all. What that means is the WoO are going to face the day when their travellers may just be the entire feild. If that does become the case, the WoO had better have a car count that will sell tickets. The All Stars will remain healthy because there are enough tracks and population within a good area to retain teams willing to travel the distances needed for the series. The All Stars may just spill into PA more often, also. The only threat maybe to PA is that only two tracks may be able to offer 410 racing in the future because of car counts. When car counts reach a certain level, a number of fans will quit coming to the track. Of course, these are just speculations, but time will tell.

 " Sprintcar racing is now mainstream and bigger than its ever been"..... surely you jest. Why do we have all these posts about the decline of the sport, tracks closing, etc?

 "oh that's right Rev said it was OK cuz of baseball or some stupid shit so it must be Ok"..... thats funny

But true! If I say its OK, its OK!

OK?

Mudclog you said you scanned the points and found 30 car owners I know my mind isnt what it used to be but I think its a stretch to find 10 cars that are owned and not family.

1z   27   48   24   07  17b   33 Erenzellar   58   69k   3   12 Creasy    13 Buch   21   39

And most of them are part timers.

I think if the tracks ran more combined 360 and 410 shows more drivers might consider staying home or coming into the area at Koxviile alot of the teams run both and l Lucas Oil drivers run both when they get the chance.

I was thinking of all the 410's in PA that actually have car owners....here's what I came up with...

-Dale Blaney- 1Z(Zemco Racing)

-James McFadden- 3(Highlands)

Tyler Ross- 5(Lefever)

Blaine Heimbach- 12(Creasy)

Danny Dietrich- 13(Buch)

Gerard McIntyre- 07(Coldren)

Steve Buckwalter- 17B(Clair & Jan Ritter)

Brian Montieth- 21(Jerry Parrish)

Lucas Wolfe- 24(Barshinger)

Greg Hodnett- 27(Heffner)

Davey Sammons- 747(John Chemedlin)

Jared Esh- 33(Ehrenzeller)

Tyler Walker-35(Sorokach)

Adrian Shaffer- 27(Stewart Smith)

Cory Haas-39(John Trone)

Danny Dietrich-48(Gary Kauffman)

Freddie & Brandon Rahmer(Can't remember owners name)

Brock Zearfoss-58(Aaron Long)

Lance Dewease- 69K(Don Kreitz)

Glenndon Forsythe-2(Wisner)

Chase Dietz-5(Godfrey)

Eric Tomecek-1W(John Westbrook)

Kyle Reinhardt-91(Quackenbush)

Trey Starks-44(Gobrecht)

Steve Owings-35(Valentine Motorsports)

Carl Bowser-98(Chiappeli)

Jason Schultz-29(Horst)

Joe Trenca(Mucci Motorsports)

Tyler Bear-10(Mike Vanderecken)

Dave Blaney-71(Motter)  He was here for 10 races or so

Also Jimmy Walker owned Chad Trout's car before he passed away this year.   I"m not sure about Joe Kata, but I think his car is owned by somebody too.   There's more car owners in PA than you think.

Mudclog was pretty on pair when he said around 30 410 owners.    We just have so many freaking classes here in PA that are taking away from the 410's.      Just think how many 360's we have.....guys that run Selinsgrove, URC,and some of the ESS guys.  There's so many more car owners in the 360 class as well.  Not to mention the new wingless URC races and wingless sportsman at Path Valley.    Don't forget 305's which are still drawing 30+ cars in most races, I remember Lincoln had 50 recently and Port had more than I can even count for their show.    We have Super Sportsman which still pull a full field.    Then 358's which are mainly based at Lincoln and Trailways, with the occasional Susky visit.    Lincoln was drawing 32-33 cars every week just in the 358 class.    We also have Kutztown, Lindas and Lanco which are really healthy with Micros, Speedsters, etc.   ARDC Midgets havent' gotten the best car counts recently but they still draw 15 to 20 cars.    People don't realize how many cars/teams/drivers there are here in PA.    There's just so many divisions they are all spread out.   

Edge you just verified my point of the 30 listed how many actually ran a full season , some ran fewer than 10 races  The Buch 13 aleady stated he wants to run the full All Star schedule next year, Rahmer is the car owner of 51 and 88 just good sponsors.

Dave Blaney cant really be considered a Pa. car Schultz and Tomacek are mainly 360 Trenca ran more in New York than Pa.

Reinheart only ran for Quackenbush at Susky.

Lefler Energy is just a sponsor on Tyler Ross.

If you check some of the others out you will find they have family connections,or are heavily invested themselves.

Like I said no place for a hired gun to come in and run full time.

I'm just saying there are more car owners out there then what people realize even if they don't run a full season.    Trenca is running all 410 stuff next year and I'm pretty sure Ross' car is owned by Lefever.    It doesn't really matter either way, there are still alot more family owned teams than there were a few years ago.    Which sometimes can be a good thing, sometimes can be a bad thing. 

SOD tire rule and Doty wing angle rule and there would be so many cars for $3500/$300 they would have to run non-qualifier features in Central PA.

 
 
 
They don't even know how to spell sprint car 
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com