Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

We can all agree the 15 team has a perfect combination. They have a great owner and sponsor backing them. They have a great crew from the crew cheif down to the lowest crew member. They have a great driver. I wasn't trying to turn this into another is Donny Schatz great or overrated thread. Just trying to see if anyone out there thought a team could upset hm this year. I feel like it would be great if we could see 2-4 cars battling it out for the points championship. Maybe one of the other teams can take the next step.

Sorry if we turned it  into  another debate , so I say it could be a lot closer this year , but if Lee Stauffer is back with Brad Sweet and they run the WoO schedule then they could be my darkhorse to be in the mix of things.  

Yes, I am well aware of what has been said by the many on here . I am not going to argue but yes a driver  has to drive a car but a top crew chief is or can be the #1 key to any teams success or failure . Anybody that goes to races see's it over and over again when a team changes a man with knowledge to set up a car .And  no  its not all common sense , its techical experience over the years , Sammy Swindell is another example of that , thats why he is on CJB team for his knowledge and driving skills .

I see the deabate and the differing opinions.....car?  driver?  crew chief?   Of course it takes a great car to be at and stay at the top....that's a given. Now regarding the driver and crew chief. I don't think Donny is the absolute best out there even though he's doing the biggest majority of the winning. And I'm not so sure that Warner is the best crew chief on the tour......BUT.....the communication between driver and crew chief is! That's the package it takes. If Donny can't relate what the track and car are doing and if Warner can't also see that and understand what Donny is sharing....it doesn't happen. But they do understand one another. Donny wins so many races in part because his car is the strongest at the end of a race. That's not an accident...it's planned. How may times have Saldana or Pittman or whoever been out front only to "make a mistake" and Donny reels them in and wins. Maybe they didn't make a mistake.....maybe the changing surface or handling of the car bit them in the ass and they "missed" it. If you have ever heard a Schatz interview, what are the first words out of his mouth? "The car the TEAM has given me to drive........." It isn't just modesty, it's the way that TEAM works...the team of course includes the driver. Does anyone think Kinser stayed on top because he was the greatest driver and invincible. No.....Karl was able to take what Steve related to him during the night....they'd walk the track together, and come up with a setup that would put them where they needed to be at the end of the race. All this I have picked up from reading what those guys have said over the years. I have every issue of OPEN WHEEL and other magazines and there are many, many articles on the best from those days and their words are very easy to understand. There were 4 or 5 times when Wolfgang had eveything he needed....car and crew.....and he kicked some ass....Kinser's and Swindell's. Was it because HE was suddenly the greatest? No! And Doug will tell you that today. Doug will tell you very candidly that he had what he needed to be the best he could be. Doug will also tell you he doesn't know exactly how many races he won in his career, but he will tell you he knows exactly how many he won with a pass on the very last lap. Donny wins quite a few races on the last lap and last corner....beacause he's where he needs to be and his car is doing what it should. That and the talent he does have behind the wheel make him the best out there today!

I agree with everything you said except I do believe that Donny is the best driver out there today regardless of who writes the checks or who his crew chief is. I'm not saying its all driver. It take the full package. Always has always will. All I was saying was time and again I see people give credit to everyone and everything but Donny himself and it pisses me off. 

Yup, just like everyone used to say "it's not Steve, it's Karl".

Nobody's gonna beat Schatz, barring disaster (almost afraid to type those words..)

I was serving Bobert to you on a silver platter. Anyone who believe's a crew chief is more important than the driver needs to look no further than Rahmer's team to see the truth. Freddie and Brandon are great young drivers, and I'm quite certain much of their early success has been due to Big Freds ability to set those cars up. Put Stevie Smith in the same car and he's a threat to win anywhere anytime and has done it. Same car, same motors, same crew, and same crew chief, yet one driver does way better than the others, I guess Stevie must be luckier than the boy's or he has better chemistry with the crew chief LOL

Yes sir. Perfect example right there. The driver is still the most important part of the equation. It's always been that way and I sure as hell hope it always will be because that's one thing that really sets sprint cars apart from "cars going in circles" so to speak. I don't ever wanna denegrate the role that a good crew and quality equipment serve because let's face it, Stevie wouldn't do shit if his motors were down on horsepower and he was blowing the tires off of it every time he touched the gas but that said, Stevie is another example of a very smart and elite driver who almost always drives a perfect race even when he doesn't win just like Schatz does. Hodnett is another one of those. You won't see those guys throwing sliders through the slick early in a race unless it's absolutely necessary. They're smart and they know that rubber wears out. They also know that you can't drive through the guy in front you so they time their moves in lapped traffic so that they can get by the guy and still maintain their momentum without melting the tires off the damn thing. Altman brought up a good example of how a good crew cheif can elevate a teams game with how Brad Sweet got going once Lee joined. No doubt that helps a lot when you have a smart guy like Lee in your corner but having Lee alone is not going to take Brad Sweet to Donny Schatz level because Brad isn't nearly as good of a driver as Schatz is. Simple as that.

Yep and look at what Steve did after Karl. He still won more than anyone and added a few Knoxville Nationals win and WoO championships to his resume. 

I bet there are more drivers than you think out there running 5th to 10th most nights with awesome set ups. The best car in the world is no better than the guy driving it. 

Doug Wolfgang told me once a good driver can make a somewhat poor handling car look great.

Actually Steve was chasing Karl and Mark quite a bit of the time after his return from NASCAR.....Steve did dominate again once Karl and Mark were gone for good. Also, don't forget that Steve "stole" his crew chief from Karl (Scott Gerkin) who had been on the road with Steve and Karl for many years. 

Of course a driver like Wolfgang could carry a somewhat poor handling car.  If you get the cahnce, ask Doug the next time you see him if that can be done night after night. I know what he'll tell you. Think about it.....do any of these guys forget how to drive one night and suddenly remember the next night. Hell no they don't, they hit the set-up. Schatz and his team simply hit the set-up more often than not....same as Karl and Steve did. Joey and the Motter team were the fastest more consistantly in time trials than pretty much everybody else, yet they couldn't carry that into the rest of the night. Why? When Joey was right on certain nights he was able to drive around even Schatz. Not because he was the better driver....because he was able to do something with his car that Schatz couldn't on that given night. Of course "joe blow" can't get it done even in the best car, so don't go there. For several years, Mark Kinser was a consistant 5th, 6th and 7th place driver, with an occasional win. With his dad behind him he won two WoO Championships and three Knoxville Nationals before his career ended due to an injury. I don't believe those things happened because he suddenly learned how to drive.

No different than when a top 10 car that seldom wins changes drivers and starts winning way more often. The crew chief did not just suddenly figure out how to set up a sprint car. The car was good just as often, the first driver just couldn't take advantage of it.

I guess I don't recall that having happened, a top 10 car suddenly becoming a major winner with a new driver. I know Sammy and Doug have made winners of cars in their careers, but they had more knowledge than all but a few crew chiefs that have ever turned a wrench. 

I must admit Bob's Ricky Warner argument is one of his worst. I don't mind him as much as some do on the board, but the constant discounting of Schatz's abilities is annoying.

The only shot anyone has of beating the 15 team is complacency on the part of them or them not reacting quickly enough to the new rules package. Schatz won the title by 544 pts, had 22 more wins, and 22 more top 5's than the next guy so I can't see anyone overcoming that unless the above happens.

Yea, but Steve didn't dominate like he had with Karl until Karl got out of it for good. If you look at 1996-2001, he won 2 titles but wasn't the dominant driver anymore, Mark was for the most part.

Only in 2002-2005 did Steve become Steve again, dominating the series.

Predictions

1. Schatz 2. Pittman 3. Stewart 4. Sweet 5. Gravel

Ok guys let's all agree to disagree, driver and crew chief are of equal importance to a winning combination.

Answer me this, If you were Tony Stewart and somone had a gun to your head forcing you to fire either Donny Schatz or Ricky Warner, who would you fire and why?

I would fire Ricky because I think It would be harder to beat Schatz with new crew chief then it would be to beat Ricky and a new driver. Maybe I'm wrong, certainly possible since I have never been an owner, driver, or crew cheif. 

Question 2

If all the card carrying WoO members jumped into identical cars with identical setups, and they raced 10 (or however many card carriers they have) different 20 lap races, so that every driver got to start at every different starting spot snd the only changes made between races was to return the car to the initial setup, who do you think would would have the highest average finishing spot, I'll take Schatz 

Hypothetical situations are rarely worth opinions because there is no right or wrong to something that doesn't happen. But as far as who gets fired? Warner, because Schatz brings a lot of moey and endorsements to the team. Money is considered first in nearly all business situations. As for the top 10 getting in identical sprint cars? The fact that they would be racing in a situation with changing conditions still requires a crew chief. Those 10 drivers would need to have a random draw of the top 10 crew chiefs to work with to adjust the set up of the "identical " cars. Now there would be enough information to make a pick. I never once have stated that Donny isn't one hell of a driver. I'm just not so sure that the differnce in the abilities of todays top drivers is as wide as the feature wins Donny posts indicates. Anybody that doesn't think Donny is in the best situation overall, doesn't fully grasp what it takes to dominate the way he has.