Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Even IF Jason loses his case I do believe the damage has been done to WRG. They can't sugar coat this, make excuses or try to make things right now. Almost too late. As stated, this should get the attention of those who may or have took a look at running with the WoO and make them have second thoughts.

David Smith Jr.
www.oklahomatidbits.com

I'm with you, there's no sense getting all riled up about this thing. Racing is supposed to be something fun to do on weekends. Not something to agonize over on the keyboard. There's too much of this going on in the sport lately and it's sucking the fun right out of it.

Stan Meissner

The only people entitled to give legal opinions and/or interpretations are licensed attornies and their opinion is for the state that they are licensed. Some "message board experts" should think about that when they type.

Keyboard commandoes rule message boards... which is why a lot of us stay away. Message boards can be fun but too many people ruin it. I like the attitude of don't type anything you wouldn't say to someone's face. I think 99% of what is typed on here does NOT fit that criteria. So be it.

This Sides deal is a really dangerous situation and a lot of lives can be impacted. Court cases don't always turn out how you thought they would with your partial knowledge of the situation. You, sitting at your keyboard, definitely don't have all the details of the case and likely aren't an attorney with thorough expertise on the legal issues at hand. You've read, on a freaking MESSAGE BOARD, that Sides wasn't paid, that he didn't get a seat, that his usual pit spot wasn't there, that he's GOING to file suit... or has he filed suit already?

So many legal experts in here... who knew? Same people that can't type 2 sentences in a row without 18 typos... THEY are reliable sources?

Amazing.

If you WERE an attorney... I'll bet you're not stupid enough to post on a message board about a case you know nothing about other than heresay.

It all boils down to the same thing that started the WoO in the first place: $$$. I doubt anyone had Ted Johnson on their Christmas card list... but hell if they all didn't show up for his $$$. I can think of a couple of new sprint groups that tried to steal the WoO thunder... and failed.

If I was a racer and towed all over the planet... and DIDN'T get what I was owed... I'd sue them for every nickel they have for damages & suffering.

I'll bet a few car owners are working overtime on their calculators... tow money, travel expenses, point fund money... vs. "outlaw" schedule running when & where you want. If the fine folks at WRG or Boundless or whatever they're called this week restrict what you do, where you race and then might not even pay you your earned $$$ without a legal battle... is it really worth it?

And we wonder why car owners leave the sport...

The whole deal with this is the WoO,s are locked in at all the major events. Knoxville,,Eldora,,Williams Grove,,,Charlotte and on and on. When NST tried it was against the WoO races that the tracks waited but had to book or loose the date .Knoxville backed out on the WoO,s but it wasnt enough. If you schedule in January you either lock in or you take the chance of no Outlaw shows!!! The Outlaws name is what is kept USA and NST from going forward.. They failed twice because the people go to see the WoO,s Steve Kinser or Sammy or not!!!

Any lawyer will tell you that a lawsuit is a very inefficient and expensive way to resolve contract disputes, and it also means you lose control over the issue being disputed since a judge or jury will be making the decisions. I can only hope there is only one race fan on that jury. Only one person that has been cheated out of money. You speak about social media, , Social media is awesome, it spreads like wildfire, it goes places where they still use outhouses. Jason has never given anyone any reason to think he wouldn't be respectful. Jason is a team that needs the money, that was wrongfully taken from him to be able to race in 2012. He worked for that money.

WOW If that is how thay treat racers I dont think thay need my Money.

Next time thay come to town I will stay away.

I dont have time for some one that can't respect what it takes to build cars

and make it to the track each week.

If I have something to say I'm not afraid to say it to you face. I don't sit behind my keyboard and hide behind some fake screen name.

I agree with some of what you say but when you spoke about peoples typos, you best read what you typed, I see several. Other than that you have some good points.

I bet your real name isn't Some Guy In Texas. Reading your post I take it your really not a message board expert either. Glad you could join us in the chat though.

Kudo's to WRG for ENFORCING the rules period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dont forget that Jason called Brian and he said he would get back with him.. just want to throw that in there..So Myers is caught cheating i think 2 years ago and isnt slapped with anything but ok to slap Jason with a huge fine?? Come on.. So its ok to cheat? Keyboard commandos as you sit there and type your story? So what are u a keyboard saint?

B_I_N_G_O !!!

They need to be consistant in enforcing the rules period. Cheaters shouldn't be paid! You get caught cheating you should be fined not paid! Theres no Kudo's for WRG at all!!!!!!!!!!!!

Agreed! Now who was cheating and how?

When I was younger I worked on a few political campains.....i recognize game playing...there are three new people posting..on one subject only..and have done nothing but attack WRG and WOO..in my opinion they are shills for the lawyer..if you can't win a case in court..try to blackmail the defendents in the public eye...before you disagree with me click on pam7s....woohoo...billyj...read their post and consider when they showed up...maybe i'm just a consperousy nut....if Mr. Sides has a case ..take it to court...if he was wronged I hope he wins..but to attack the people who helped him with the cost of racing over the last 8 years-the people who he signed a contract with...for a few lousey bucks ..is wrong

Above all else, I want to say that I am reminded once again of the passion that sprint car fans bring to this 'sport'. Regardless of the side of this debate you choose, you seem to do it with passion and commitment...that's commendable. Long live the First Amendment !(That's the one that says in this country everyone is entitled to 'freedom of speech'....so have at it !) Now to the good stuff. I am a lawyer...or at least I played one on a sitcom once...dropped after two seasons! I hate NBC ! Anyway, I have a few questions for y'all to ponder, and on a variety of issues I've read about on here.

1. If the sworn testimony and admissible evidence in this case proves that Sides DID call Mr. Carter and ask for permission to run the Fargo race, and Mr. Carter told him he was busy right then and would call back the next morning...but did not... and that Sides DID try twice more to reach Mr. Carter, without a response...would it surprise you that in virtually every state the law imposes upon all parties to all contracts a 'duty of good faith', and that the jury will be instructed that they are entitled to find that Mr. Carter and the WRG had a legal duty to respond to Sides' request, and if they find that the WRG breached that duty to deal in good faith by not responding to him, the jury can award him his damages.

2. Would you be offended, or find it out of line, if the law in virtually every state is that sanctioning bodies in even voluntary associations are obligated by law to refrain from 'arbitray and capricious' dispensation of 'penalties' in those instances in which they choose to 'punish' a perceived violation of their rules? Is that concept offensive to you? If so, you need to contact your legislator and have them change the law in your state...because that's the law.

3. Would it make any difference to you in this debate if the evidence is that: the #9 team asked for permission to run the Fargo race (with Brad Sweet in the seat, who had not signed the Platinum Agreement, even though the #9 Owner had signed the agreement and was obligated to have its driver sign it too), and the WRG said in substance 'yeah, technically Brad can run the race, but do not run the actual #9 car, and do not take the Red Bull tow rig into the pits....only to have that team put a 4 on the "9" car and, in fact, bring the Red Bull rig into the pits? And what if the WRG chose not to 'penalize' the #9 owner despite what some might view as not

just running without permission, but running in direct contravention of prohibitions from the WRG ?

4. What if it turns out that Cody Darrah in another KKR car did not run the Antioch race (despite a Platinum Agreement that required the team to run ALL WoO shows) because Cody was 'sick'... but it turns out he was not sick; rather maybe the team just didn't want to run 'cause the next race was in their sponsor's back yard and they were saving equipment...and what if the WRG was shown those facts and chose not to punish the driver or team at all? Or, what if after the Sides 'penalty' started causing so much consternation, the WRG decided it should show some nondiscrimination in handing out penalties, and decided to deprive Cody of Rookie of the Year honors...offer the Rookie award to Bill Rose, only to have Bill tell them that it should go to Cody !!! (Dang, it is good to know there are honorable men and women in this sport !!)

5. And what if you are tired of reading all these 'what ifs' and would rather just have your opinion regardless of the facts...one way or the other...in favor of the WRG's 'penalty' imposed on Sides, or against it? And what if you want to speak that opinion with conviction to anyone that will listen?

I know the answer to the last question: this is still America, and I pray to God that you never give up your right to speak your mind...right or wrong...informed or knee jerk...trained in the law or a novice. Speak your mind ! And remember this: if you enter into a contract, you are obligated by law to act toward the other party in good faith. And if you are a sanctioning body, you need to remember that you are not now nor will you ever be entitled to impose penalties in an arbitrary and capricious manner. You can't arbitrarily punish some, but not others. You can't arbitrarily set penalties and arbitrarily refuse to pay contract benefits otherwise due. Jurors have a very keen sense of the distinction between right and wrong, lawful and not. Grown men are entitled to differ. That's why we need juries : to settle differences between parties when the parties can't. The Sixth Amendment gives litigants the right to trial by jury. In this dispute, I strongly suspect that someday a judge is going to ask: "Ladies and gentlemen, have you reached a verdict.........?" And they will have done just that.

I didn't start posting untill I was accused of posting as woohoo. I am friends with the Sides family and will stand behind Jason and Sides Motorsports. I don't hide behind a fake computer name and I will pretty much say whats on my mind rather I'm right or wrong. I know woohoo, he's a fan of the 7s. He started posting when Sides was announced he had something that he soon would release. I believe his first post was quite funny as he was quessing something wing nation had going on. Most of his information comes from me. I have asked hime to quit posting but he is a man and has a mind of his own and isn't going to let a female tell him what to do. Now as for Billy J, I'm not sure who it is. I have met a guy that they call billy j at knoxville but not sure this is him or not. I really don't think anyone is playing games, I think that people really are supporting Jason Sides. The attack on WRG/WOO in my opinion is very much called for. Yes this is a case for the lawyers and courts to handle, I agree with that for sure. The comment on attacking the people that helped him with the cost of racing goes both ways wouldn't you think. If it wasn't for drivers and teams like Jason Sides, people like Carter, Deery, Geisler, wouldn't be sitting making six figures. I'm new on here because intill this happened I had no reason to come to the social media and voice my thoughts. This all could be over if they paid what they owe Jason! Just thought I would clear up since you were wondering. Oh one more thing a few lousey bucks, I don't consider over $40,000 a few bucks. If you have that kind of money to consider it just a few dollars, would you like to sponser Jason Sides so he can race in 2012?

Move to Pennsylvania Jason Sides. I'm quite certain that you will be welcomed with open arms!! Race 2 or 3 nights a week. Decent purses and NO travel. Pretty sure that Dayrn Pittman likes it around here?

To quote an old timer (I'm not giving the name) I didn't move to Pennsylvania from elpaso for the weather!

Add on the fact that the majority of fans attending an Outlaw race don't pay any attention to these boards or social media sites and I'd bet whatever is said wouldn't make any difference in attendance. I know of a lot of people who only attend one or two races a year and when they see it advertised in the paper they come out to see them. This board and others like it represent the hard core fan and those involved in the sport. I don't think the vast majority of the fans that attend Outlaw races know or even care about this latest little scuffle.

As someone who attends one or two Outlaw races per year when they're nearby I consider this as something that will blow over before we see them next July. As you mentioned, the Outlaw brand name is the trump card. No other group draws more people for a one day show up here in the upper Midwest. It would be interesting to see how they do after some of the old guard retires from racing as Outlaws and a few driver names are so closely associated.

Stan Meissner