seems to be a feud brewing, it may have started last spring when the WoO was in PA and used Larson's name for advertising and he was not allowed to sell merch at those shows. Per twitter Silva was not happy. I can understand Haud being uspet with the no call for a yellow flag. Not sure why Sweet would hop on the bandwagon. Probably way more to this than us fans will ever hear about.
This message was edited on
September 21, 2022 at
12:05:19 PM by BStrawser26
Reply to:
Posted By: Jack Black on September 21 2022 at 10:59:14 AM
seems to be a feud brewing, it may have started last spring when the WoO was in PA and used Larson's name for advertising and he was not allowed to sell merch at those shows. Per twitter Silva was not happy. I can understand Haud being uspet with the no call for a yellow flag. Not sure why Sweet would hop on the bandwagon. Probably way more to this than us fans will ever hear about.
I don't think there is any fued brewing. None of these races will conflict with any WOO show. There will be a couple of days before the weekend shows for the outlaws. However, with the amount of dollars being paid for these midweek shows. The outlaws might want to give a little more freedom to the drivers. If not they could lose some drivers. 12 races and a point fund.....that both total over a million dollars. It is going to be hard for the outlaws keep everyone they have now if the don't let them race these races.
Remember the KING he left a couple of times for other sprints series that ran directly against the WOO and this series is not like that.
Let's go Sprint Car Racing!
Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!
Wait until some of the casual fans realize Sheldon or none of the other outlaws are racing. Add is misleading.
The outlaws aren't preventing any one from anything. It's a business that has rules. If you want to be part of their business you abide by their rules. The drivers all want to cash in on what the outlaws have worked had to create but some want the best of both worlds.
Midweek one night races do not work. Never have and never will.
It's good in theory but none of the people associated with it have a real job. They don't understand that the average working person isn't going unless its very close to him being a midweek deal, especially in September after they have used up all their days off. Maybe they can get enough revenue from othe sources to pay for it but I can't see the average race fan paying for an expensive ticket for a show without some elite talent. Granted there will be very good guys there but why go there for a few when you can go to Eldora and have the complete experience.
I went to some of the USA shows back in the day. They were a farse.
Hopefully they find the keys to the water truck so you can actually see the race. Most Ohio shows remind me of nothing more than a dust storm. Those Ohio fans sure are tough to put up with some of the crap racetracks that are there.
Posted By: Kool Trikes on September 21 2022 at 12:34:54 PM
Wait until some of the casual fans realize Sheldon or none of the other outlaws are racing. Add is misleading.
The outlaws aren't preventing any one from anything. It's a business that has rules. If you want to be part of their business you abide by their rules. The drivers all want to cash in on what the outlaws have worked had to create but some want the best of both worlds.
Midweek one night races do not work. Never have and never will.
It's good in theory but none of the people associated with it have a real job. They don't understand that the average working person isn't going unless its very close to him being a midweek deal, especially in September after they have used up all their days off. Maybe they can get enough revenue from othe sources to pay for it but I can't see the average race fan paying for an expensive ticket for a show without some elite talent. Granted there will be very good guys there but why go there for a few when you can go to Eldora and have the complete experience.
I went to some of the USA shows back in the day. They were a farse.
Hopefully they find the keys to the water truck so you can actually see the race. Most Ohio shows remind me of nothing more than a dust storm. Those Ohio fans sure are tough to put up with some of the crap racetracks that are there.
No where does it say Sheldon is racing. Sheldon is promoting the race. That was made clear from the beginning.
Midweek shows will work and they have worked in the past.
Let's go Sprint Car Racing!
Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!
We may not like how the WoO handles some aspects of their business, but we can at least understand why they do some of what they do. Short answer to most questions is money. Money is why they are in this business.
From the outside looking in, some things are pretty apparant. Consider this scenario. Suppose the WoO has a Saturday night race at Knoxville. Cool, right? Then the other guys schedule a race at Eagle, 3 hours west the week before, and at Burlington, 2 hours east the week after. Cool, right? Not if you are the WoO. Suddenly, folks are able to see their favorite WoO racers at non-WoO shows, without paying anything to the WoO.
Presumably, in this scenario, almost everyone in this wins. The fans see their WoO stars. The WoO racers makes some money. Eagle and Burlington get to make some money- and not have to pay the WoO to bring WoO racers to their track. The almost part is that the World of Outlaws didn't make anything off those races, even though they are the ones that make the WoO racers valuble commodites to the tracks. Suddenly WoO feels someone else is eating their pie.
Eat enough of someone else's pie, and things start to snowball. Why would Knoxville want to have a WoO race next time? The other tracks don't pay the WoO for WoO drivers to show up.Why should Knoxville? Long and short of it, that's why WoO developed the system to compensate the drivers who make their series successful, and unfortunately penalize those that don't.
There's change in the wind for auto racing in America. As yet, I don't think anyone quite knows where racing is headed, but it's obvious that a lot of people are thinking about it.
Posted By: alum.427 on September 21 2022 at 05:44:28 AM
Murphy, I agree with what your saying. If all the guys on the platinum deal decide not to sign then I think WRG will have to rethink there stronghold tactics they have on the sprint car teams. If you consider a full season on the outlaw tour I'm not sure what the dollars add up to by being a platinum member. There's always been speculation about the deal but I know and understand why they keep it quite.
You'll still have some guys sign and return I'll bet. Guys like Rose, Sides, Gass. Without all the benefits they receive, I don't think there's any way those type of teams can afford to run the entire tour.
Posted By: Murphy on September 21 2022 at 01:00:09 PM
How many midweek shows do you typically attend in an average year?
I attended 4 midweek shows this year. I get up at 5 everyday to go to work. One on a Sunday night and that is a work night. If these shows were 1 to 2 hours from my house I would go without thinking too much of it.
Let's go Sprint Car Racing!
Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!
This message was edited on
September 21, 2022 at
01:48:08 PM by BStrawser26
Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on September 21 2022 at 12:58:03 PM
We may not like how the WoO handles some aspects of their business, but we can at least understand why they do some of what they do. Short answer to most questions is money. Money is why they are in this business.
From the outside looking in, some things are pretty apparant. Consider this scenario. Suppose the WoO has a Saturday night race at Knoxville. Cool, right? Then the other guys schedule a race at Eagle, 3 hours west the week before, and at Burlington, 2 hours east the week after. Cool, right? Not if you are the WoO. Suddenly, folks are able to see their favorite WoO racers at non-WoO shows, without paying anything to the WoO.
Presumably, in this scenario, almost everyone in this wins. The fans see their WoO stars. The WoO racers makes some money. Eagle and Burlington get to make some money- and not have to pay the WoO to bring WoO racers to their track. The almost part is that the World of Outlaws didn't make anything off those races, even though they are the ones that make the WoO racers valuble commodites to the tracks. Suddenly WoO feels someone else is eating their pie.
Eat enough of someone else's pie, and things start to snowball. Why would Knoxville want to have a WoO race next time? The other tracks don't pay the WoO for WoO drivers to show up.Why should Knoxville? Long and short of it, that's why WoO developed the system to compensate the drivers who make their series successful, and unfortunately penalize those that don't.
There's change in the wind for auto racing in America. As yet, I don't think anyone quite knows where racing is headed, but it's obvious that a lot of people are thinking about it.
What about the masses of people that would go to both if they are that close to both of them? Some people love it when they can see the best drivers multiple times in a short period of time.
The WOO could really lose out here if they are not careful. What happens if all the drivers from the WOO decide they are all going to race in these races no matter what the WRG says. It could get good and it doesn't have to unless WRG decides they don't want to play ball.
If this series was racing directly against them on the weekends it would be a different story. This is 12 races that are higher paying than normal. With a point fund at the end. This is great for sprint racing.
Let's go Sprint Car Racing!
Knoxville - Best Track In the USA!
Eldora - 2nd Best Track in the USA!
Posted By: BStrawser26 on September 21 2022 at 01:45:00 PM
What about the masses of people that would go to both if they are that close to both of them? Some people love it when they can see the best drivers multiple times in a short period of time.
The WOO could really lose out here if they are not careful. What happens if all the drivers from the WOO decide they are all going to race in these races no matter what the WRG says. It could get good and it doesn't have to unless WRG decides they don't want to play ball.
If this series was racing directly against them on the weekends it would be a different story. This is 12 races that are higher paying than normal. With a point fund at the end. This is great for sprint racing.
You make some good points, but don't underestimate the WoO ability to play hardball, because it is all about the money- the money going to them. What happens if all the drivers decide they are going to the other racers and the WoO locks them out? Lots of ways that could go, but how does a WoO driver go back to their national sponser and explain that? This could go a lot of different kinds of bad for a lot of people.
The WoO has withstood 3 major challenges to their grip on what they have going. There's no way to believe they wouldn't fight off challenge #4 with just as much effort. I know, you're saying this is different, but to the WoO, it's just someone else trying to eat their pie.
Some people that come on this forum are deranged it seems.
First off, the great state of Ohio has some of the best tracks, racing, and local drivers in the country. Our tracks are not all "dust bowls". More specifically Wayne County has not been one for close to 3 years now.
Second, mid-week shows are working right now. The late models are doing this same thing. Go read about that.
Lastly, as Brad Sweet and Kyle Larson have said over and over again. They are not trying to take a piece of the WoO pie. How could they when this is a 12-16 race mid week series? The World Racing Group makes and plays by their own rules, which they can afford to do. I know for a fact this whole thing is in regards to the streaming money. The Outlaw teams and drivers see no part of it. The subscription numbers and dollar amounts (that the drivers btw are s big part of bringing in)are not shared with WoO members. One buys a subscription to Dirtvision to watch the best drivers in the country not the other way around.
In my opinion High Limit should be embraced. If the Outlaws do not play nice with their drivers... it will hurt them in the long run. You can be a Brent Mark's, Brown, or Gio Scelzi and run where you please and those teams seem fine without the full Outlaw deal.
I think High Limit will be good overall for everyone, people just need to realize this is not about another full time touring body.
Something that I haven't seen mentioned here is the whole equation on midweek shows has changed with the advent of streaming. If the number of streams is the goal then midweek makes total sense...no competetion from local shows or other streaming events. A different sport but ESPN has made some very good money off of weeknight MAC football over the years not because MAC football is great but because its football on TV without any competition.
Posted By: dsc1600 on September 20 2022 at 02:00:39 PM
Yea there's like 12 people left unfortunately.
I was somewhat disappointed by the car count at LPS for the first show but this one should get into the 40s assuming the locals support it. $32k is outstanding money.
Most racing discussion moved to social media groups and posts years ago. Most of us that still come here do it out of habit. I had one of these HH boards attached to my website that I shut down in 2016 since their inception. It's still a habit for me because I had one from 99-2016 but I doubt there are many still here from 1999. I still recognize a few names but there is a lot of clutter nowadays.
More high paying Non-WOO races is a good thing in my book but I suspect there will be an agreement between WOO and High Limit to allow them to run next year. I just wonder where all the money is coming from to pay these kind of purses for mid-week shows at tracks that don't normally have races that pay anywhere near these amounts. Is Larson puttung up the cash so the tracks don't lose money? I don't really see this series being successful long term honestly. Good while it lasts though. I'll tune in on FLO.
Posted By: StanM on September 21 2022 at 04:22:16 PM
Most racing discussion moved to social media groups and posts years ago. Most of us that still come here do it out of habit. I had one of these HH boards attached to my website that I shut down in 2016 since their inception. It's still a habit for me because I had one from 99-2016 but I doubt there are many still here from 1999. I still recognize a few names but there is a lot of clutter nowadays.
I was on your Minnesota board. You might not remember me. I used to be better at minding P's and Q's.
Posted By: Murphy on September 21 2022 at 12:58:03 PM
We may not like how the WoO handles some aspects of their business, but we can at least understand why they do some of what they do. Short answer to most questions is money. Money is why they are in this business.
From the outside looking in, some things are pretty apparant. Consider this scenario. Suppose the WoO has a Saturday night race at Knoxville. Cool, right? Then the other guys schedule a race at Eagle, 3 hours west the week before, and at Burlington, 2 hours east the week after. Cool, right? Not if you are the WoO. Suddenly, folks are able to see their favorite WoO racers at non-WoO shows, without paying anything to the WoO.
Presumably, in this scenario, almost everyone in this wins. The fans see their WoO stars. The WoO racers makes some money. Eagle and Burlington get to make some money- and not have to pay the WoO to bring WoO racers to their track. The almost part is that the World of Outlaws didn't make anything off those races, even though they are the ones that make the WoO racers valuble commodites to the tracks. Suddenly WoO feels someone else is eating their pie.
Eat enough of someone else's pie, and things start to snowball. Why would Knoxville want to have a WoO race next time? The other tracks don't pay the WoO for WoO drivers to show up.Why should Knoxville? Long and short of it, that's why WoO developed the system to compensate the drivers who make their series successful, and unfortunately penalize those that don't.
There's change in the wind for auto racing in America. As yet, I don't think anyone quite knows where racing is headed, but it's obvious that a lot of people are thinking about it.
100% agree. If the WoO stars run at a track an hour closer to me, well I will just go to that track. Now the track who has the Outlaw race loses a fan and more importantly a paying customer.
Plus I have a question for all you people who say the WoO should let their drivers race High Limit. How many of you own a business? And where is it located, because I want to come to your area and open the same business. You won't mind helping out with getting through your local areas government Red tape and finding me a good area to build. Maybe you could loan me some of your best people who know how the area customers like things. I mean if is good enough for the WRG to share their assets I think you all would be on board with sharing the years of hard labor and experience you all have in businesses. It would be a win win for both of us.
Also I have another question. Did Larson and Sweet ever speak with the WoO about working with them to set up a series within the WoO series? If as Larson and Sweet say it about getting the racers more better paying races why not work within the WoO. But then Larson and Sweet would have to share the sanction fee and streaming revenues. Always follow the money.
WoO started Dirtviision for a reason and now everyone thinks they should let their racers be on their biggest Rival Flo.
