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Topic: Badlands over & under
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Page 2 of 4 of 62 replies
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August 22, 2018 at
12:51:48 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: paydirt28 on August 22 2018 at 10:56:52 AM
Doesn't give a f#%k Chuck has already turned down an offer for $3.5 million so what makes any of you think that he's going to take less then that?
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Fair question. I'd have to believe that somewhere in the background there are some investors involved that are trying to get back at least some of their money. At the press conference, Chuck said there were investors, including a member of KISS. I don't think anyone believes that each passing day makes the track worth more.
You say he already turned down $3.5 million? Who was that from?
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August 22, 2018 at
12:57:12 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: StanM on August 22 2018 at 11:16:51 AM
I don't know. Maybe someone familiar with commercial real estate can weigh in on that. Personally if I had 3+ million and was looking to invest in a race track making the mortgage payments would be a big concern. Weekly shows around the country are said to teeter on the edge of profitability and specials tend to reinforce the bottom line. Without those kinds of specials running every year uninterrupted basically what they'll be buying is an overpriced facility with a weekly show that traditioinally featured one of the most expensive classes, 410 Sprints. Looking around my neck of the woods most weekly shows run five or six classes topping out around $750 to $1000 to win with the A Mods. The rest of the usual classes we see up here run the gamut from Hornets and Pure Stocks at maybe $75 or $100 to win up through Super Stocks and B Mods at around $300.
I'm not saying the facility isn't worth the money, it was nice in the past and looks awesome now. Nevertheless, a nice facility isn't the only piece of this puzzel. It's going to be imperitive that they find ways to squeeze more money out of their investment. Whether that's concerts, monster trucks and the usual lineup of novelty shows all of those things will be essential to their success. Short of a generous benefactor with a passion for Sprint Car racing and a personal connection to the Sioux Falls area other investors aren't going to have those same connections as past owners. Anyone looking for a business investment will need to be aware the operating expenses and status of the potential entertainment product (available cars and drivers in the area).
Dirt track racing is unique among sports if one stops and thinks about it. On the one hand you have pro and semi pro football, baseball and hockey where players are recruited and paid and fans pay to come see them. On the other hand we have dirt track racing where competitors are working people that come from the fan pool and their friends and relatives make up a large part of the crowd on any given race night. Competitors aren't recruited as in other sports, they fund their racing up the ranks and they "pay to play" in the form of entry fees and a pit pass on race day. I doubt if Tom Brady for example has to dig $30 out of his wallet at the stadium gate on Sunday morning and pay to play. Consequently, potential competitors are more affected by the economy and sponsorhip that enables them to compete in racing. If I was kicking tires in Brandon I'd be thinking seriously about all those things.
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So what do you think the magic sale price number will be when all is said and done?
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August 22, 2018 at
01:00:13 PM
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Posted By: blazer00 on August 22 2018 at 12:12:48 PM
I would estimate the suites, signage and billboards alone at $175,000 revenue annually. Thats over $2.6 million over 15 years. It isn't just about ticket sales and concessions.
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If the suites are full and if the suits are rented at the publsihed prices, etc.... I wonder if $175,000 even pays the yearly advertising budget?
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August 22, 2018 at
01:08:21 PM
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Posted By: JonR on August 22 2018 at 12:04:24 PM
Just doing basic math, $3.1 million over 15 years would be monthly payments of $17,222. This does not take into effect any type of interest rate.
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Math geeky:
$3,100,000 borrowed for 15 years @4.5% interest + $23.714.79 per month
x 12 months = $284,577.48 per year
divided by 20 (?) events= $14,228.88 per night of racing to cover the mortgage.
Actual numbers of course would vary. I used 4.5% interest because that's the rate we got when we used a home equity loan to buy a lake cabin. I'm guessing my bank wouldn't loan me $3,100,000 on a home equity loan- at least not 'till we have the cabin paid for. 
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August 22, 2018 at
01:38:18 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on August 22 2018 at 12:51:48 PM
Fair question. I'd have to believe that somewhere in the background there are some investors involved that are trying to get back at least some of their money. At the press conference, Chuck said there were investors, including a member of KISS. I don't think anyone believes that each passing day makes the track worth more.
You say he already turned down $3.5 million? Who was that from?
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I'm not sure it woud be very respectful of me to say who made the offer. I understand that's frustrating so I apologize in advance.
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August 22, 2018 at
02:24:18 PM
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This message was edited on
August 22, 2018 at
02:25:21 PM by blazer00
Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on August 22 2018 at 01:00:13 PM
If the suites are full and if the suits are rented at the publsihed prices, etc.... I wonder if $175,000 even pays the yearly advertising budget?
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I think my number may have been conservative on the suites and signage........regardless........a $5,000-$7,000 weekly budget would go a long way in adertising during the racing season. And with the Badlands deal.....word will travel like wildfire if a new owner opens it back up just in social media alone. Of course there are a lot of expenses involved, but many overlook the other sources of revenue......like sponsors night, program advertising etc.....And Sioux Falls has the money to support it.
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August 22, 2018 at
02:53:14 PM
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word on the street there is 4 interested groups that will be bidding. Some are former racers or team owners and some are business owners. I'm confident it will sell and be re opened in 2019. Pretty sure the 410 deal is dead. Not sure what the big draw will be. 410's put butts in seats and 360's stuggle to. Concerts, snowmoblies, motorcycles will never make any money. Monster Jam would probably do pretty well. Also hearing several parties interested in leasing Hartford. 305's, hobbys, b mods and street stock with some 360 specials. If both tracks open I believe they will both struggle to get crowds. If only one opens it will do well. After 2 years no racing in Sioux Falls area people have moved on to other entertainment. Just my 2 cents.
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August 22, 2018 at
03:18:22 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: paydirt28 on August 22 2018 at 01:38:18 PM
I'm not sure it woud be very respectful of me to say who made the offer. I understand that's frustrating so I apologize in advance.
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Fair enough. I was just curious. The only thing I know for sure is that it wasn't me.
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August 22, 2018 at
03:36:10 PM
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I dont think race fans just move on. There isnt that much to do on a Sunday night in the summer IMO. Weird thing I keep thinking about is that the past 2 summers, seems like Sunday nights have been dry as a bone. Beautiful nights. I disagree that concerts dont make money. That Weezer concert had to rake. Sure there is some staffing, but to me it look like a huge cash grab on the beer sales alone.
Put a mini golf and go-kart track out back of that property. Hell, low ball the bid and put in a small waterpark back there. Couple slides and a splash park for the kids. (like the old Sioux RIver Waterslide park on W.12th years ago)
Buy a bunch of Micro sprints and allow fans to buy themselves a night of racing for $$$$. Set up qualyfing nights and have the best of the best advance to the show on Sunday.
So many things could be done out there than jsut a race track and concert venue. I'd also make it more camper friendly. Make it a year round camping destination just off I-90.
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August 22, 2018 at
04:53:54 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Sonicman1 on August 22 2018 at 03:36:10 PM
I dont think race fans just move on. There isnt that much to do on a Sunday night in the summer IMO. Weird thing I keep thinking about is that the past 2 summers, seems like Sunday nights have been dry as a bone. Beautiful nights. I disagree that concerts dont make money. That Weezer concert had to rake. Sure there is some staffing, but to me it look like a huge cash grab on the beer sales alone.
Put a mini golf and go-kart track out back of that property. Hell, low ball the bid and put in a small waterpark back there. Couple slides and a splash park for the kids. (like the old Sioux RIver Waterslide park on W.12th years ago)
Buy a bunch of Micro sprints and allow fans to buy themselves a night of racing for $$$$. Set up qualyfing nights and have the best of the best advance to the show on Sunday.
So many things could be done out there than jsut a race track and concert venue. I'd also make it more camper friendly. Make it a year round camping destination just off I-90.
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The question about camping came up at the press conference. I recall the answer given was that current (at that time) zoning would not allow it as they were operating under some grandfathered in conditions. Which is not to say that it could never happen. It appears to me that the area south of the track near the creek could become a camping area- in dry weather. That would be far away from most every neighbor, if that's what the hang-up is.
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August 22, 2018 at
05:47:25 PM
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Posted By: IADIRT on August 22 2018 at 11:47:06 AM
What would Eldora go for today? I would guess more than 3.5 million truthfully but IDK. I am not saying 3+ millions isn't a lot for a vacant track such as Husets, but starting new somewhere else to have what is currently at Husets would likely cost well over 3.5 million. This still doesn't make it a great deal since it would still be hard to make money but I don't know if comparing it to Eldora is completely fair either.
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The comparison to Eldora was about price and the number of big special events at each track that would give them an advantage in repaying a large loan. I'm not comparing the track or the racing.
Stan Meissner
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August 22, 2018 at
05:49:13 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on August 22 2018 at 12:57:12 PM
So what do you think the magic sale price number will be when all is said and done?
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I wouldn't even begin to guess but they're throwing around some big prices. Didn't they start at something like 9 million?
Stan Meissner
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August 22, 2018 at
06:25:25 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Jack Black on August 22 2018 at 02:53:14 PM
word on the street there is 4 interested groups that will be bidding. Some are former racers or team owners and some are business owners. I'm confident it will sell and be re opened in 2019. Pretty sure the 410 deal is dead. Not sure what the big draw will be. 410's put butts in seats and 360's stuggle to. Concerts, snowmoblies, motorcycles will never make any money. Monster Jam would probably do pretty well. Also hearing several parties interested in leasing Hartford. 305's, hobbys, b mods and street stock with some 360 specials. If both tracks open I believe they will both struggle to get crowds. If only one opens it will do well. After 2 years no racing in Sioux Falls area people have moved on to other entertainment. Just my 2 cents.
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"people have moved on to other entertainment"
This statement has more truth to it than anyone realizes. It's different when a smooth transition takes place and a track is sold while operating. However, you give people two years off, and who knows how many are still insterested. There are absolutely people who will not come back. How many? Don't know. I hope not many so the track will succeed.
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August 22, 2018 at
10:04:29 PM
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I will guess 3.5 million. As has been pointed out everything but the racetrack and parking lot is new.
And that would be a super bargain compared to the 1.5 million that Lyle is asking for Hartford Shithole.
Let's HOPE this deal gets done and weekly Sunday night shows are back for 2019.
I disagree that 410's would be dead at that track.
The worst president of my lifetime:
Ronald Reagan
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August 22, 2018 at
10:53:28 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: StanM on August 22 2018 at 05:49:13 PM
I wouldn't even begin to guess but they're throwing around some big prices. Didn't they start at something like 9 million?
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It was originally $9.75 million when 1st up for sale in December, 2016.
In May 2017, the price was lowered to $7.5 million after the Silver Shootout race,
Then it was raised to $9.45 million in September 2017, which it stands at today. The $3.15 million is just a down payment at the auction next month (if there is one)
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August 22, 2018 at
11:14:47 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: newbeevur on August 22 2018 at 10:04:29 PM
I will guess 3.5 million. As has been pointed out everything but the racetrack and parking lot is new.
And that would be a super bargain compared to the 1.5 million that Lyle is asking for Hartford Shithole.
Let's HOPE this deal gets done and weekly Sunday night shows are back for 2019.
I disagree that 410's would be dead at that track.
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Lyle wants how much for Hartford??
That place isn't even worth $150,000.
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August 23, 2018 at
07:20:14 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RHC on August 22 2018 at 10:53:28 PM
It was originally $9.75 million when 1st up for sale in December, 2016.
In May 2017, the price was lowered to $7.5 million after the Silver Shootout race,
Then it was raised to $9.45 million in September 2017, which it stands at today. The $3.15 million is just a down payment at the auction next month (if there is one)
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Downpayment? I think the $3.15 million is the base auction price to start.
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August 23, 2018 at
07:22:28 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: RHC on August 22 2018 at 11:14:47 PM
Lyle wants how much for Hartford??
That place isn't even worth $150,000.
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This made me start to think about the discussion earlier about what farmland is worth. I can think of times when I parked in pretty deep alfalfa in the Hartford parking pasture and wondered if someone's catalytic converter was going to light the place on fire.
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August 23, 2018 at
08:42:28 AM
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I appreciate some of the ideas on here but not sure some of them are even realistic. Even if someone gets it for 3.5 mil, they will have a hard time making that money up on weekly racing. Murphy took a stab at the numbers and even if he is remotely close, they will not make that on just weekly racing. So to think someone is going to buy it and then invest even more money into a campground or other amenities seems crazy to me. Someone mentioned building a waterpark. I agree that that would attract people out there but 1)waterparks are crazy expensive to maintain 2) building a waterpark next to a dirt track seems like a really bad idea. I can't even imagine the struggle to try and keep it clean.
I was never a big Chuck fan but I will give him props for investing in the track. I just pray someone can afford to buy it and get back to weekly racing. I also agree that people will not just come back cuz the doors open. Humans are often creatures of habit and they have given them 2 years to find new hobbies. It is going to be a tough gig any way you look at it.
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August 23, 2018 at
10:33:01 AM
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What if the opposite is true? That is, what if people around the area have missed it and now realize how nice it was to have that they come back.....even stronger!!! More support of the track. Maybe now that Chuck is out of it (he polarized people) some fans will come back that didnt go just because it supporteed him and his endavors.
Technically there is camping very close with the State park. Garretson isnt a long drive either for camping. (thinking for big events that are over a holiday or long weekend). Also the school parking lot is available in the summer months.
I've heard multiple times now that WoO and All stars want this track open. Guys liked racing there and they enjoy the stop in Brandon (prob due to proximity to interstate and that it is also close to tracks like Jackson and Knoxville -- 2 premeir tracks in the Midwest)
I dont know how to say this or talk much about it but here goes. Long time ago I wondered why the city of Brandon or Minnehaha county didnt step up right away with a bid to buy the track at fair market value. I mean it could host carnivals and fairs. The thought being that a non profit entity like that would seemingly be able to run it much better than an indivudual ownership for profit group. Knoxville/Marion County Fair is run this way....right? Without knowing how county or city government works...wouldnt this be ideal because they could draw off the taxes in the county/city for help in paying off the debt of the track? IDK...just seems to me a non profit city owned track would be a benefit to Brandon. It could then be used for so much more than racing. Like i have said (sure, with some bad ideas mixed in) that space and land there is huge and could be used for so many things. Just have to get creative.
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