Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I Agree with Missouri Sprint Fan get Ricky Craven a ride for the Nationals next year!

Look at all that I've stated and you'll recall that I did state that many of those reaching the ends of their careers now WILL be NSCHoF bound, without winning a Knoxville Nationals, and some with no major wins at all, but with the right credentials over all to deserve being in the Hall of Fame. Once in the Hall, their achievements will put them in a comparitive position with those already in, based on each members career achievements. Those racing today that don't have the years yet invested are the ones that now need to build on their own careers, put together the types of numbers and personal achievements that will put them in the Hall of Fame. We can all speculate as to who they might be, but that's all we can do. My comment regarding those who consider this the "toughest era ever" is based on history......during Foyt's era, there were several drivers that had what it took to win the biggest events of the time, more than once, head to head with Foyt. Same in Opperman's brief career, and the same in Kinser's lengthy career. So far during  Schatz's dominance, even though there are maybe several that can be threats, non has emerged as the one who gets it done against Schatz. Maybe Gravel or Sweet is reaching that threshhold, but only time will tell if either does. Or, if someone else might emerge as the next Best.

Sorry I'm going to try to reply to everyone here, so sorry if it gets confusing or long lol.

Egras, your welcome and thank you for your respectful response also.  First off I 1000% agree with you that tone and delivery are very important in seeing someones thoughts and you're right texting is a terrible way of communication.  I was hoping to find a clip of this for a couple reasons.  First off, I believe you said you only watched it once and I think we can all agree that there have been times we have seen something and thought one thing and after watching it again think something different, I know that's happened to me many times.  Second of all, I can't believe he would act like that.  Nobody has ever been born into the cup series (except maybe Paul Menard lol), they've all had to prove themselves in lower level series and work for what they have, so I can't believe he would degrade the biggest sprint car race in the world because obviously he has raced in much less prestigious events.

I totally agree with you on the Knoxville Nationals being a professional event.  But just to put it into perspective, lets say David Gravel wanted to do a different dangerous sporting event or other "dangerous event" Friday night of the nationals, say boat racing, motocross or anything else, many of us would probably think that was also a stupid thing to do.  And with Tony Stewart getting hurt a few years ago (and basically ending his competitive NASCAR career) you know that's the first thing on peoples minds.

With Truex's dominance.  I should start off by saying that 10-15 years ago when a NASCAR race was on I watched every bit of it and all the pre-race, post race and any other NASCAR show and I truly knew everything that was going on.  Today I generally turn it on during pre-race, watch the first 50-100 laps and fall asleep on the couch and magically I always wake up with about 30 laps to go.  So I can't say I'm the most informed fan today like I was 10-15 years ago.  However I'm going off of what I've seen and heard.  I think there's been 2 races (one for sure) where Truex won all three stages.  And he's always in the top 5 for sure.  I guess a big part of that thought is also what the other drivers are saying.  Larson even said in victory lane on Wedensday night that the 78 car was a little better than he is right now.  He also said Sunday in victory lane that he ran second to Donny Schatz at the nationals and beat NASCAR's version of Donny Schatz that day.  Also other drivers have been complaining about their dominance.  For me it's not a what have you done for me lately, it's that I haven't seen the 78 car have a bad or mediocre race anytime this year (I'm sure he has but I don't remember).  What I have seen(or heard) a lot is Larson having a top 15 or 20 car and finishing in the top 10, which is also impressive.  You're right they both could have 5 or 6 wins or even 10 wins if more things went their way.

Your analogy of Ricky Craven and Trent Dilfer couldn't be more perfect.  Trent Dilfer, the guy voted worst quarterback to ever win a Super Bowl (Which by the way means he has more Super Bowl rings than I do or even NFL starts lol).  Other than riding a superb defense to a Super Bowl neither of these two has accomplished anything in their respective sport, and now they analyze how people in their professions are doing it wrong.  Seems strange to me how a couple of guys who are unproven can tell people what others are doing wrong.  I want to point out that this doesn't mean these two aren't talented but unaccomplished if that makes sense?

Again I agree I wish I could have seen his delivery too.  If it happened as you're saying, I have to agree the guy is a total idiot.

One final thought on Truex and Larson is, I don't think in a few months it will matter.  If history is any indication whoever dominates the "regular season" has terrible luck when the chase starts.  I hope I'm wrong but it's happened time and time again.

Johnny Utah, I'm glad we agree on different forms of auto racing.  I don't think I have to say anything else, you hit the nail on the head.

Luvit, 5 years ago I would have agreed with you, however, in today's NASCAR I think there is more successful drivers than cars.  I guess if I were a NASCAR owner and I had my choice between Larson and Kenseth, it would be a pretty tough choice.

To everyone who commented on Steve Kinser in NASCAR.  I was commenting on how Egras thought it was ridiculous that Larson "flew under the radar".  The point I was trying to make was that a good sprint car driver does not automatically mean they will be a good NASCAR driver.  I used Steve Kinser as an example because he's the best sprint car driver ever (Not trying to start another debate lol).  There's been many other great sprint car drivers that have failed there too, I'm not trying to single out Steve Kinser.  

I can honestly say I don't understand what would make a sprint car driver a good NASCAR driver.  To me it's apples and oranges.  A 410 sprint car is the highest power to weight ratio car that can steer.  A NASCAR is a big heavy stock car.  I've never driven either but I would think driving the two would not be similar at all. 

I will be honest when Steve Kinser got into NASCAR was before I watched.  I think you guys are all partially right at why it didn't work out.  Being 40 years old when he first started racing fender cars, I have no doubt that contributed to his struggles as it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.  I also think the car he drove did him no favors either.  But I think another thing that contributed to him not making in NASCAR is his personality.  I'm not trying to say he's an ass or anything but as great as he was behind the wheel he was just the opposite in front of a microphone.  I think we can all agree that NASCAR isn't ALL about performance, but also about selling yourself.  Look at Michael Waltrip, not very successful but the guy gave a damn good interview and had many good commercials.  I don't ever remember seeing Steve Kinser thank his sponsors when being interviewed, I'm not saying he didn't but his interviews were pretty boring, I honestly can't remember one Steve Kinser interview.  

I don't generally agree with any "conspiracy theorys".  But I have one of my own.  When Steve Kinser got into NASCAR this was before the so called boom.  I believe NASCAR wanted Steve Kinser to fail.  Why?  He wasn't going to do much for NASCAR as far as promoting it.  But how good did it look for NASCAR to say "the greatest sprint car driver couldn't make it here. These are the best drivers in the world."  

Thanks for the reply--all sounds reasonable

Would like to clear up on the Kyle/Truex debate:  I do think RIGHT NOW Truex and the 78 have an edge on Kyle and the 42.  However, I just stop short of calling it dominance.  I know Kyle called him the Nascar version of Donny----but that is Kyle saying what he is supposed to say and propping up his competition.  I know others are complaining about Martin's dominance but the word doesn't really speak to the results.  I know stage racing has made it more exciting and I have actually even watched a few of the races all the way through.  However, it has also created fictitous points for "winning" those stages.  The jury is still out for me because of this.  Both drivers show up at every track fast and only finish poorly if they have a mechanical failure, a run in on the track or make a stupid mistake.  There is very little performance difference between the two if you step back and look at the full season----like I said before Martin is slightly better right now.

That said, agree with you how you watch on Sundays.  I actually do the DVR version of watching races.  I look for the time when the race is about over and determine how fast I fast forward through it depending on the time I have.  Sometimes, it takes me 10 minutes.  

ESPN hires poor analysts for every sport. They fired the true journalists and knowledgable individuals and kept washed up former atheletes who think they know it all. Nascar isn't the problem on this one it's ESPN.

More people at the Knoxville Nats than the Brickyard. Nascar is already insignificant 

I'd like to address the idea that NASCAR and the announcers are selling Truax as having a "dominant" year. That sure as hell is a stretch in my opinion when you consider what dominace should represent....like Bill Elliott....1985, 11 wins in 28 races.....or Rusty Wallace....1993, 10 wins in 30 races.....then there's Jeff Gordon.....1996 10 wins, 1997 10 wins and 1998 13 wins. NASCAR has sunk so low they are trying to sell brightly painted lead as real gold! Scratch the surface of NASCAR and what you'll find is that the young grass roots racer is going to be the NASCAR future. Problem is, NASCAR doesn't understand that yet. History will repeat itself. NASCAR will have to become what USAC once was. Let the boys race in front of the dirt track fans.....and that will bring an all new customer to the NASCAR gate. And.....NASCAR will once again have a field of real racers in the mix! Now, of course in order to do that, the drivers are going to want to climb in to race cars, not slot cars.

One more note.....I also believe that not all racers have to come from money. Not so sure NASCAR owners understand that yet. The older drivers that went out and "played in the dirt" years ago were also the ones that spotted a lot of real talent.  And because they were real racers, they weren't threatened by seeing that talent come up and race against them. The two things that are having an ill effect on racing today are money, and the need for instant success. Owners/Sponsors don't seem to have the patience to bulid a team with a young talented driver. Yet look at how many field fillers there are with drivers that have the money and not the talent.

Both great points. 

The dollars and sponsorship money will be extremely tough to fix in the new Nascar economy.  Dollars are going to be slashed not just cut from these teams.  Will be very interesting to see if they end up in a situation similar to 20 years ago where only 4-6 guys can actually win a race.  That will happen if only 2 or 3 millioniares can continue to support competitive rides.  Hence the need for them to find drivers with money coming along with. 

I called it last week in my post about Kyle's Sprint Car racing feeding the NASCAR narrative that in their eyes racing Sprints is akin to playing around at an amusement park Kart track.  I will admit that they talked up Knoxville with the veiled caveat that we watch Cup on Sunday.  I revert to decades of ignoring Sprint Cars and putting them down and will be slow to forget.  NASCAR desperately needs to reach out to grass roots fans sincerely and respectfully.  They behaved like they were above grass roots racing and left a lot of burn marks on that bridge.

Stan Meissner

Stan makes a good point.  At one point (10 or more years ago), Nascar was above the fray & could sort of look down on the grass roots racing.  Given their significant decline in TV viewers & live attendance, it would appear that those days of looking down on the grass roots are gone.  

I'd venture to guess there were more people at Knoxville on Saturday night than have been at any Xfinity race this year (maybe outside Daytona) & it was not too far off the attendance at some Cup races (Richmond comes to mind).  

Dirt tracks have benefitted in one respect.  NASCAR tracks have quietly sold off excess seating that has found its way to many of our favorite dirt tacks.  

Stan Meissner

While the Brickyard crowd sucked this is factually untrue 

Nascrap has serious attendance issues.  If it wasn't for the TV deal you have to wonder what direction they would be going. Remember Nascrap entry fee's are thousands of dollars. They have 2 of the biggest HICK announcers out there, NBC has some British guy calling the races. And they don't  address any of there issues. Yes, ESPN is Cravens employer, he stinks. Right know besides some of the young talent that is out there I have no reason to watch anything but the race.  Hence the name nascrap, hence there attitude,  they don't care. 

ESPN has been crapping on Sprint Cars at LEAST since Kahne had that wreck at the National Open a few years back.

And I'm sure all the Tony Stewart drama pretty much sealed it's fate forever in their eyes.

I reject your reality and substitute my own.  There's nobody in NASCAR putting down short track racing, dirt or asphalt.

Every NASCAR TV/Radio personality, driver, owner, crewman, fan, that I heard this week, including Kyle Petty had nothing but praise and respect for Larson running dirt competitievely at Knoxville and they all went nuts with praise when he won Michigan as well.  Over and over Knoxville was mentioned and highlights were shown.  Ganassi, one of the big owners in NASCAR, Tweeted about how Knoxville was going during the race and after congratulated Shatz.   I didn't hear one critical comment other than Sprint Car driving is more dangerous.  If Craven rolled his eyes, whatever.  Every participant in NASCAR would say he is in the wrong if he was downgrading the Knoxville Nationals.

Why do some have a chip(pun) on their shoulder as a dirt fan regarding NASCAR.   NASCAR has advertised and promoted proudly its' grass roots dirt track and short track history from Red Farmer to Ralph and Dale Earhardt Sr to Kyle Larson.  Off the top of my head, Stewart, Kahne, Shrader, Gordon, Foyt, Andretti, Parnelli, Stenhouse, Larson, and many more have all been promoted by NASCAR at one time or another directly relating their racing history including Sprint, midget or Champ Car. 

The week of the Sonoma Cup race this year there were 5 NASCAR Cup Drivers in the Calistoga pits Saturday night hanging out and Stenhouse and Stewart were running Sprints.  That doesn't sound like like a group that "forgot the short tracks", or "forgot where they came from".  A lot of the retired NASCAR guys are running and building DIrt Modifieds and Late Models.  I haven't heard any of them complaining about NASCAR, TV/Radio or their past competitiors bad mouthing them.  If a Sprint guy reading this must now denigrate Dirt Modifieds or Late Models, please look up Hypocrit in the Dicktionary first.   I can't recall one instance of any professional involved in NASCAR putting down Sprint Cars or any other short track racing and I'm 53 and born into a dirt track open wheel family.  

Since NASCAR lets GM win 90 percent of the championships and calls it parity, you'd think they would love sprint car racing  Seriously now:  NASCAR is naval lint.  Steve Kinser is awesome.

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

I never said Nascar put it down---I said ESPN's Nascar analyst put it down.  I also said he followed the long standing tradition of Nascar analysts and announcers not knowing a thing (speaking of them in general) about the origins of some of these racers.  I never said Nascar spoke negatively. 

With comments like "once that kid learns how to win".  ??  They are clueless on the credentials of some of these real racers because they are so used to seeing the new spoon-fed racers entering the sport.  Most of the spoon-fed racers entering the sport don't have any real exprerience with victory and they do have to learn how to win.  Sure, they have won in lower level asphalt races where dad paid for a car and crew to smash the competition.  That's different than rising through the ranks in every form of racing you enter.  Look up the credentials of some of these "young guns" of Nascar.  Playing with dad's money.  Not true in every case, but getting more and more common as the decades click by. 

I will say, I also watched the later version of Sportscenter on Sunday night and Ricky Craven's bit on the later show was different than the one right after the race.  He didn't mention Knoxville.  Did someone besides me notice what he said and how he said it?  Every other piece of the story was the same with no mention of Larson running the Nationals.  HMMM 

Why do we care what anyone in NASCAR thinks or says?  Its like getting the local homeless guy to give his opinion on big fancy houses. 

Luna's Ford engine style that won 2 WoO titles and 3 
Kings Royals before a weight rule against the best EVER
in their prime and now DOMINATES super dirt late model
racing is no longer allowed/wanted in a WoO sprint
car.... Was Luna a miracle worker?

#1

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...