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Topic: That's why we are sprint car fans.
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Page 2 of 3 of 41 replies
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March 24, 2013 at
06:16:22 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on March 24 2013 at 06:05:56 PM
that one man in his car would sure be up the creek when he pulled into the pits for service under your theory.
come to think of it, just how does that one man get the car together and to the track?
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Duh, I was talking about on the track under green. No teammates or team orders. If you can win, go for it.
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March 24, 2013 at
06:21:40 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on March 24 2013 at 06:14:04 PM
and a sprint car and a midget.
but like them silver crown cars don't have scheduled pit stops. if they did, they would fuel the cars. you know that. you are just pissed you can't think of a better reason why F1 can't figure it out! 
just how many computers does a dirt champ car have on it?
you are not dumb so don't play like it.
besides i am just ruffling your feathers pat. nothing more.
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Easy now....The Knoxville Nationals has a scheduled pit stop.... 
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March 24, 2013 at
06:33:39 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Hawker on March 24 2013 at 06:21:40 PM
Easy now....The Knoxville Nationals has a scheduled pit stop....
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and they fuel the cars
to indy and beyond!!
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March 24, 2013 at
06:35:39 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on March 24 2013 at 06:16:22 PM
Duh, I was talking about on the track under green. No teammates or team orders. If you can win, go for it.
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what about that spotter feeding the driver info?
just because there are no team orders doesn't mean it is not a team sport.
to indy and beyond!!
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March 24, 2013 at
06:47:22 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on March 24 2013 at 06:33:39 PM
and they fuel the cars
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Shoot Buzz, when the outlaws come to the Cow Palace, they refuel them before completing a lap...
Opinions may vary...
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March 25, 2013 at
07:36:04 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on March 24 2013 at 05:44:34 PM
Racing is 1 man in his car vs all the others in their cars. It is NOT a team sport. Never was a big Nascar fan, but when drivers started working together and even talking to each other on the radios during the race that really killed my interest in it. Telling 1 driver to LET anouther win violates the integrity of the sport. Sprint car racing, to me, is the purest form of racing on the planet.
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And... Nobody falls asleep during a sprint car A Main... If they do, they've been drinking too much!
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March 25, 2013 at
07:46:56 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Hawker on March 24 2013 at 04:50:30 PM
What is the point of destroying the engines of both team drivers, when you are dominating? They weren't just leading, absolutely no other car had anything for them. It's easy to question F1 when I have seen sprint teams change engines 4 times in one night for a series where and engine may turn 180,000 revolutions in one night. But remember, 1 F1 engine is expected to turn 2,700,000 revolutions in one race day. F1 isn't for everyone, Americans have a real tough time understanding that it is a team sport, much like football and basketball. The "Constructors Trophy" is the #1 priority to the manufacturer who fields the car, and the drivers are expected to do whatever it takes for the TEAM to excel, the driver's championship comes second. I too have seen F1 races won on the last lap corner...Matter of fact, there was a recent F1 Championship won on the last corner, of the last lap, of the last race of the season.........And no, there were no "team orders" used in that outcome...
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Maybe the reason they were dominating was that it wasn't the other teams weekend to win, and they were saving their motors for when it was their turn.
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March 25, 2013 at
07:54:20 AM
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This type of thing has gone on for years in F1.
So...back to sprint car racing.
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March 25, 2013 at
07:57:00 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Hawker on March 24 2013 at 03:56:22 PM
Okay, now for the FULL story......F1 teams do not get an indispensable amount of engines to run the season (unlike WoO, USAC, NAPCAR, NHRA and many others). Each driver gets 8 engines to run the whole season, this includes practice sessions, qualifying and the race. If a team changes an engine, on a race weekend or they run out of engines before the end of the season, they suffer a grid penalty. Now, considering that these engines are turning 18,000 rpm, engine preservation is key to winning races and championships. The drivers have the ability (under instruction from the chief engineer) to change settings on the engine (via controls on the steering wheel) that will change the fuel mapping, ignition timing and other parameters that will allow that engine to "live". Today, Mark Weber dominated the whole race and was unchallenged. But after the last pit stop, with the race WELL in hand, he and his teammate Sebastian Vettel who was running a distant and safe 2nd place, were instructed to "turn down" their engines to preserve them. This is VERY common for teams to do when they are dominant. But the problem came about when Vettel ignored the instruction to turn his engine down......reeled in his teammate, and passed him for the win. So, though he did win the race, fair and square, it could definitely hurt him later in the season when the engines begin to get "tired".
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Well Pat, wasn't it some years ago, exactly how many I'm not sure, that I think was a Ferrari driver was told to let his teammate pass for the lead and the win so he could get more drivers points? I think the one who won was leading the points at the time. After this, I thought the FIA (head of F-1) said that team orders that would affect the outcome of a race's finishing order would no longer be allowed. Is this what happened? If so, weren't those team orders yesterday basically against the rules then?
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March 25, 2013 at
10:39:03 AM
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while 410 sprint remain my favorite car / form of racing...you have to be blind not to realize the intensity of F1.
Imagine if a WoO Kville engine had to last 1/8 of the 2013 schedule or you would not start another points race?
Heck...some of these guys have blown 2 engines in one night and never made the A!
Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better
weather." Van May
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March 25, 2013 at
06:24:56 PM
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Why that would be dumber than a fuel stop. (yes I said it like that)
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March 25, 2013 at
09:50:49 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: BigRightRear on March 25 2013 at 10:39:03 AM
while 410 sprint remain my favorite car / form of racing...you have to be blind not to realize the intensity of F1.
Imagine if a WoO Kville engine had to last 1/8 of the 2013 schedule or you would not start another points race?
Heck...some of these guys have blown 2 engines in one night and never made the A!
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a sprint car 410 motor is making 900+ HP from a naturally aspirated push rod design. and they turn them close to 9k.
didn't someone say F1 got eight motors per team per year. how many races does F1 run in a season, 18-19? so each motor has to last a little over 2 races. TWO races.
if an outlaw team had eight motors, most have 4-6 and ran 80 shows, that would be 10 races.
10 races is about when most motors get freshened.
so i really am not impressed with the 2 races that the F1 guys are running their stuff.
and you don't have to miss a race in F1 if you change a motor too soon, you just get a penalty that makes you start further back on the grid.
plus F1 spends more money on one engine than most outlaw teams spend the entire year.
to indy and beyond!!
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March 25, 2013 at
10:33:22 PM
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When I lived in England I took a tour of then British American Racing in Brackley Northhamptonshire. It then became Honda and now Mercedes.
In 2004 the budget for BAR was $180 million a year. Per the PR rep on our tour Ferrari was spending around $400 million.
Two drivers, multiple cars all built in house. 95% of the car was built in house. We toured the machine shop, carbon fiber area, wind tunnel, and engineering area. The only thing not built in house was the Honda engines and the tires (tyres).
Each team usually has 2 test drivers, they had about 4-6 tow rigs and a facility that was incredible.
Jeff
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March 25, 2013 at
10:45:09 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on March 25 2013 at 09:50:49 PM
a sprint car 410 motor is making 900+ HP from a naturally aspirated push rod design. and they turn them close to 9k.
didn't someone say F1 got eight motors per team per year. how many races does F1 run in a season, 18-19? so each motor has to last a little over 2 races. TWO races.
if an outlaw team had eight motors, most have 4-6 and ran 80 shows, that would be 10 races.
10 races is about when most motors get freshened.
so i really am not impressed with the 2 races that the F1 guys are running their stuff.
and you don't have to miss a race in F1 if you change a motor too soon, you just get a penalty that makes you start further back on the grid.
plus F1 spends more money on one engine than most outlaw teams spend the entire year.
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When I was working for Lasoski, he told me that when he was driving for Stewart and he and Kinser were fighting for the championship, it wasn't uncommon for them to change engines as soon as they lost their "snap" which many times was after 4 races. I highly doubt that anyone but the back markers in the WoO are running their engines more than 5 to 6 nights before they get freshened. An F1 engine is a 2.4L V8 and is also normally aspirated, putting out around 750 or so HP and are limited at 18k RPM (They idle around 6,000 RPM) and they run on pump gas. If you change an engine, or run out of engines, you get a 10 grid penalty from where you qualify. Remember, 10th place pays 1 point..... Also, in the 8 engine equation, don't forget the practice sessions and qualifying for each race weekend which amounts to nearly a race and a half in itself. So, in reality, each engine must be reliable for roughly 15 hours of track time. Now, considering that a typical WoO engine is running about 2 hours under power before being refreshed, and many times less than a heat race.....Well.......And money? Speed costs money..........
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March 25, 2013 at
11:52:25 PM
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Aryton was pretty good at them team orders. I liked how he drove and how he was a team player. Win. That was 'his team' plan.
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March 26, 2013 at
08:02:25 AM
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Just a few questions Hawker, and I am looking for your honest opinion here, not trying to piss you off.
As a paying customer who buys a ticket, I should not care that they don't actually race in the early season so they can save there engines??? I don't really understand that part. So, I should wait to go see a race until they have more fresh motors then they have races left in the season?? So, after practice, the teams that are not really fast on that track, just turn the engines down and save them for when they get to a track they have a chance to run good at? And it's ok for you, the customer to watch them drive around for 3 hours knowing they don't intend to race for the win or run fast, just preserve for another day? I travel to Germany very often and some tickets to the Formula One race there were over $400. For that money, or any money, I want to see a race. An entire race, where the best car and driver win. If the leader chooses to slow, then take your result when your teamate passes you and leave it at that.
I guess it just a different sport all together. I have tried to follow it a few times over the years but always give up after a few months. The rules change faster then the cars go. This new overtaking wing thinging they got going now might be the hardest thing to understand since racing was invented. You can use it here, but not there, no more using it in qualifing, if you use it when your not evertaking another car you get a penalty, and you have to be told when you can use it. Its very, very confusing, and i might not have all the details, but thats kind of the point.
The technology is awesome. The engineering is incredible. But, the racing sucks. My opinion only, you can agree or disagree, thats what makes the world turn!!!.
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March 26, 2013 at
09:20:04 AM
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I've tried to watch F1 over the years but it never holds much attraction for me. These cars are engineering marvels but they don't represent to me the best form of racing. I like hang it all out, hair on fire, high action, contests that don't take hours to decide. I don't like pit stops (I wish Knoxville would get rid of theirs in the Nationals A Main). I don't like fuel mileage races. I don't like computers on cars (even though I spent my entire career in the technology field). The crew and team effort should be done before the green flag drops, and the rest should be up to the driver with the least amount of active-technology assistance possible. This is only MY opinion. I'm not trying to convince anybody I'm right and they're wrong for not agreeing with me. I watch all kinds of racing because I'm a race fan, but most Saturday nights from late April to Labor Day you'll find me at Knoxville. The rest of the year I'm waiting for April.
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March 26, 2013 at
12:44:49 PM
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Raz59,
The Red Bull team cars had such a huge lead near the end of the race, there was no reason to push as hard as possible.
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March 26, 2013 at
04:45:17 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: MRZERO on March 26 2013 at 12:44:49 PM
Raz59,
The Red Bull team cars had such a huge lead near the end of the race, there was no reason to push as hard as possible.
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i am not concerned about how hard the red bull cars had to push.
if they didn't need to race each other that is fine, but vettel is the reigning champ and the point leader and the number one driver. so why was he being forced to run second? why didn't they tell him to pass his team mate then dial it down. to red bull as a team it shouldn't matter who finishes ahead of who as they still would get the same team points. so why make the lead driver/team finish second?
to indy and beyond!!
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March 26, 2013 at
09:53:25 PM
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This message was edited on
March 26, 2013 at
09:54:30 PM by KevInCal
F1 and Outlaws are my favorite racing series by far. Because they are the most impressive racing machines out there.
I have not been much of a fan of Vettel, but I actually am now that he didnt listen to team orders and went ahead and won. Webber could have turned his engine back up and battled Vettel and tried to win but he didnt (well actually he did but vettel will always win the battle). Its obvious over the past few seasons Vettel is the better driver, by far really.
Team orders should be permanently banned. Fans want to see wheel to wheel racing.
For those who dont like F1 I suggest trying a little harder because it is awesome motorsport once you understand how it all works. Its a very complicated series but worth getting into. It has a lot in common with F1, even though theres next to no money in outlaws and hundreds of millions in f1. actually billions probably.
They have a 24 hour a day channel dedicated to F1 in europe called Sky Sports F1. You can watch it online here. http://www.vipbox.tv/motorsports/95559/1/sky-sports-f1-live-stream-online.html (You will have to close some tricky ads, no big deal) Well looks like they arent streaming now but if its close to a race weekend they stream 24/7. Save the link and check back in 2.5 weeks for the Chinese GP.
Anyone wants to watch me racing at Spa here you go part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-itzQzXMyJY
part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZnrN0HexaRs
and more on my channel
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