|
|
|
|
|
Topic: knoxville is thinking about racesaver engine rules for 305 class
|
Email this topic to a friend |
Subscribe to this Topic
| Report this Topic to Moderator
|
|
Page 2 of 3 of 49 replies
|
|
|
|
|
July 25, 2012 at
02:05:58 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
03/12/2011
|
|
Posts:
|
1699
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: hoosierdaddynow on July 22 2012 at 01:00:57 PM
heard a rumor that knoxville is thinking about the racesaver engine rules! you know whats gonna happen after that? knoxville raceway 305 nationals are comin soon! 
|
it would be nice if track could get 2-3 cars with racesaver engines to race at last race of year. Cars should be ones that run in uper one-third at racesaver tracks. I do not think they will look like lawnmowers.
|
|
|
|
July 25, 2012 at
04:37:51 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
04/14/2007
|
|
Posts:
|
609
|
|
|
|
Went to the World of Outlaw race at Charlotte in May. I went to the Truck race, Nationwide Race, and NASCAR race at Charlotte that same weekend.
Also went to the Virginia/Carolina Sprint Series, 305's, at East Lincoln Motor Speedway. By far the best race of the entire weekend.
Seen the 305's at Fremont a few times also, and never been dissappointed.
Brandon McLain
United Sprint Car Series Driver
2014 Season
National Rookie of the Year!
National Points - 8th
Southern Points - 3rd
Asphalt Points - 3rd
18 Races, 3 Top 5's, 14 Top 10's
|
|
|
|
July 25, 2012 at
05:55:12 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/05/2004
|
|
Posts:
|
204
|
|
|
They could make a rule that every driver had to pre shit his shorts before going on the track but if no one is going to look in his underwear the rule is useless. Going to a Racesaver motor is the same thing. No one at Knoxville is going to spend the time to tech them. So why make the change.
|
|
|
|
|
|
July 25, 2012 at
06:25:57 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
08/13/2006
|
|
Posts:
|
347
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Hootus6D on July 25 2012 at 05:55:12 PM
They could make a rule that every driver had to pre shit his shorts before going on the track but if no one is going to look in his underwear the rule is useless. Going to a Racesaver motor is the same thing. No one at Knoxville is going to spend the time to tech them. So why make the change.
|
The first sentence might not be the #1 comment of the year, but surely it will make the top 5.. LOL
They did mention that there were supposed to be some racesaver cars coming, I don't remember if it was this weekend or not, but John did say he invited some to race. I guess time will tell if they show up.
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
01:00:05 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
10/15/2011
|
|
Posts:
|
9
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: vande77 on July 25 2012 at 11:00:13 AM
sure, the engine is floating around for 5-10K, but what's it gonna cost you to make that motor run (injection for example)??
From the #'s thrown around on this board by guys that run the Racesaver, it's no cheaper than the current 305 rules that Knoxville runs per the competitors.
As far as the IMCA motor goes, they "tested" a motor during the Harris Clash that was a crate motor. It was fast, I am guessing reliable, but it cost $5000 more ($15000 race ready) than what my brother currently has in his IMCA mod now and what he's running is good enough to win races at most tracks and has made the feature @ Knoxville earlier this year. So the answer is to make guys that are competitive currently spend even more $$ than they do today??
Crate engines are NOT the answer, the only thing they do is pad the pockets of the sanctioning bodies (IMCA, ASCS, etc) in my opinion.
Drivers, Teams, Owners will spend what their budget allows them to spend no matter what the rules are. There are guys with crappy equipment/set-ups that have killer motors that get outran by guys with good equipment/set-ups and decent motors EVERY WEEK across this country in various divisions. The difference between the 2 teams are that one group "thinks" they are getting beat by killer motors and that they have to have one to compete. The other group knows that horsepower does them zero good if their car falls apart or they can't get grip and concentrate on making sure they don't fall out of races due to component failures and making the car get hooked up no matter what the surface is like.
|
please do not reply about door banger stock cars on this forum it gets everyone fired up and i get sick of seeing it. (if u can drive a sprint car u can drive anything)
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
01:29:45 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/03/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
69
|
|
|
|
The racesaver 305 divisions are more than just a set of spec heads, its about regulating basically the entire motor. Beyond that its also ENFORCING the set rules by having the motors teched before the teams can even compete. The basic racesaver rule package has been unchanged since the late 90's early 2000's.
You can make any type of rules you want to "control costs" and to make the sport "fair" but if your not enforcing the rules that are created and regulating what people can actually do to the product they have then whats the point of the rules. Also if you are constantly changing the rules, that means people need to spend more money to be compliant within those rules.
Now as demand increases, price will increase because the competition increases it tends to happen.
Alot of the Racesaver series use a flat purse, or a very low purse where start money is approximately 50% of what it is to win, and it pays very consistent from 1st to 24th.
The PASS series makes sure all motors are sealed before you can compete with them. Also, they dont have Wing rules (aside from the 25 sq. ft. maximum dimension), an open tire rule, but does not run wheel bleeders, no titanium over 1 1/2" in diameter, no cockpit adjusters of any kind.
We have been using the same set of heads since we started with the series in 2008 but they came from a team that started with the series back in 1999.
|
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
02:30:53 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/10/2007
|
|
Posts:
|
947
|
|
|
|
Ohio 305's are the best in the country. They've been around since late 80's, i wish everyone would follow them. Almost every week they turn faster laps than the 410's during the feature at Attica and Fremont.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=523QvavTwKU&list=UUlciuHsOTmCAdWVsBefS4Zw&index=1&feature=plcp
do it in the dirt
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
12:22:11 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/24/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
37
|
|
|
Leave the engine rules. The car count is Good. Always Changing the rules only lowers the car count.
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
12:28:16 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
01/20/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
2079
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: hoosierdaddynow on July 26 2012 at 01:00:05 AM
please do not reply about door banger stock cars on this forum it gets everyone fired up and i get sick of seeing it. (if u can drive a sprint car u can drive anything)
|
I was responding to this:
|
| July 24, 2012 at 12:42:05 PM |
|
| Joined: |
10/12/2007 |
| Posts: |
133 |
|
|
A Racesaver engine would make it a lot easier for a guy like me to race a sprint car. The engine cost is what keeps me away from a 305. I see used Racesavers for 5-10k floating around. I can afford that.
The crate engine deal the IMCA uses for a few of their classes is great. Here's the basics of how it works: You buy an engine for $3300. Its a 350 that puts out 350 hp. Put on your own carb, water pump, radiator, etc ($1000). Most people are getting 50-70 nights out of these engines. When its time for a new engine, you sell your crate back to the dealer for $1500. Basically, you trade your old engine and $1800 for a new engine. (not all crate dealers work this way but many do) If something like this existed for sprint cars, I'd be on the track in a month. ....and I'm the kind of person sprint car racing should be attracting as an owner/driver. I'm middle class with a good job. I'm not trying to go broke racing so I own/race a hobbystock but I'd much rather be in a sprint car.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
12:37:21 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
10/12/2007
|
|
Posts:
|
228
|
|
|
|
Sorry Vande77, I didn't mean to get you in trouble. I don't mean to talk about door bangers but I was making a point. I want to race a 305 sprint car. The current rules at Knoxville make that impossible for me financially, so I race a door banger instead. I believe the Racesaver deal would make it possible for me to race a 305.
Please don't vote me off the island.
"If you're gonna run the bottom, you might as well get
a real job."
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
12:42:50 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
12/24/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
37
|
|
|
Is the motor your talking about the same ones the b mods or sport mods run? You can buy a stock one for $3200 but you better buy the cheated up one for $15,000 if you want to win. The simple fact is the ascs 305 would be noticable shower then people would complain about that next. You know what the rules are now so people should build accordingly.
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
12:47:20 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
03/12/2011
|
|
Posts:
|
1699
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Hootus6D on July 25 2012 at 05:55:12 PM
They could make a rule that every driver had to pre shit his shorts before going on the track but if no one is going to look in his underwear the rule is useless. Going to a Racesaver motor is the same thing. No one at Knoxville is going to spend the time to tech them. So why make the change.
|
remember racesavor engines are sealed. If all the seals are in place they eliminate a lot of steps in checking engine. You also have to a authorized person to seal an engine with stiff penalty for cheating.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
12:52:10 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/05/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
11
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: hoosierdaddynow on July 22 2012 at 01:00:57 PM
heard a rumor that knoxville is thinking about the racesaver engine rules! you know whats gonna happen after that? knoxville raceway 305 nationals are comin soon!
|
Nice "idea" ... but will a Spec RaceSaver motor survive being flat out around Knoxville? Remember, run the bottom = 1/2 mile run top = 5/8 mile! Add a tight track and some good cusions! When the class 1st started at Knoxville, lots of blown motors trying to "lock down" the car. Solution was/is take out as much wings as possible, reduce stagger and stay on the trottle. Result is motor never gets a "breather".
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
12:52:33 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
07/05/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
11
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: hoosierdaddynow on July 22 2012 at 01:00:57 PM
heard a rumor that knoxville is thinking about the racesaver engine rules! you know whats gonna happen after that? knoxville raceway 305 nationals are comin soon!
|
Nice "idea" ... but will a Spec RaceSaver motor survive being flat out around Knoxville? Remember, run the bottom = 1/2 mile run top = 5/8 mile! Add a tight track and some good cusions! When the class 1st started at Knoxville, lots of blown motors trying to "lock down" the car. Solution was/is take out as much wings as possible, reduce stagger and stay on the trottle. Result is motor never gets a "breather".
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
01:07:06 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
01/20/2005
|
|
Posts:
|
2079
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: Ben 31 on July 26 2012 at 12:37:21 PM
Sorry Vande77, I didn't mean to get you in trouble. I don't mean to talk about door bangers but I was making a point. I want to race a 305 sprint car. The current rules at Knoxville make that impossible for me financially, so I race a door banger instead. I believe the Racesaver deal would make it possible for me to race a 305.
Please don't vote me off the island.
|
Just sayin', the crate motors are NEVER what they are supposed to be, plan on spending 3 times (or more) what they are touting.
The crate that IMCA tested during the Harris Clash costs more than the ones they are trying to eliminate...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
06:29:39 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
04/12/2009
|
|
Posts:
|
253
|
|
|
|
OK ..SO LET THE RACESAVER MOTOR IN ...AT ALL THE MIDWEST TRACKS..AND TO HELP MAKE THEM EQUAL... GIVE THEM A 150 LB WEIGHT BREAK..THEY CAN RUN @ 1400 LBS ..WHILE THE REST ARE @ 1550 LBS ...THIS MAY HELP PROVE IF THEY ARE AS RELIABLE & COST EFECTIVE AS PEOPLE THINK THEY ARE... AND WILL BUILD THE 305 RACING
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
08:02:03 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
02/13/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
61
|
|
|
Reply to:
Posted By: racer39 on July 26 2012 at 12:52:10 PM
Nice "idea" ... but will a Spec RaceSaver motor survive being flat out around Knoxville? Remember, run the bottom = 1/2 mile run top = 5/8 mile! Add a tight track and some good cusions! When the class 1st started at Knoxville, lots of blown motors trying to "lock down" the car. Solution was/is take out as much wings as possible, reduce stagger and stay on the trottle. Result is motor never gets a "breather".
|
the racesaver engines are built to trun 6400-6700 rpm if you stay in that range your fine. we ran 1/2 mile tracks and there fast. speeds from 105-110. the problem is the rocker studs arent very good.
ps the 305 all pro head aint bad
|
|
|
|
|
July 26, 2012 at
09:59:39 PM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
09/03/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
26
|
|
|
I don't understand the blown motor argument. A solid bottom end is a solid bottom end no matter what head Is on top. And most everybody I race Racesavers with turn 7200-8200 with no problems. As long as its a good piece I don't see why a Racesaver motor would have any difficulty. Hell I wish I was a little closer, id love to come run my Racesaver against the Knoxville 305s. I don't think there would be too much of a difference. And you better believe if there's ever a Racesaver or ASCS 305 nationals I'll be there with bells on!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
July 27, 2012 at
12:43:57 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
08/04/2010
|
|
Posts:
|
53
|
|
|
|
I have listen to everyone on the 305 issue. We run a 305 every sat night at Burlington, who ever said that you can't build your engine in your garage is nuts. That is where ours came from we have run top 10 and when my driver gets more experience I feel we will be a top 5 or 7 car. We got less than 4,000 in our engine from injector to to pan. I feel Burlington rules are great and wish we could run more places close. 305's are a great class and I hope they grow. Burlington usually averages 18 cars a night and put on a great show. I just wish every one would get on the same page with their rules. And if there was a 305 nationals we would be there.
One of the few 305's in Illinois
|
|
|
|
|
July 27, 2012 at
01:04:45 AM
|
|
|
Joined:
|
03/22/2008
|
|
Posts:
|
2512
|
|
|
|
Knoxville runs 305'as now? What's next 6 cylinder sprints? Hey why not 4 cylinders? I know, it's still a sprint car. It's affordable and everyone has to start somehwere. Heck if I was on a low budget starting out, I would look this division as a fun and affordable way to race a sprint car and I'm sure it is; but to be honest, as a fan I've seen 305's probably a half dozen times. My opinion: street stocks/pro-stocks/thundercar type classes put on a much better show.
A
|
|
|
