Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

the post you replied to is 100% correct - subtract the start money. Now to your post - if it was a local low budget team you are probably correct about it being a disincentive.  However, whether they get the 1,600 or 400 from a purse perspective it is a losing proposition bottom line.  They take provisionals for their sponsors and end of season point placement for payout.

heck all teams are bolting on new rear tires for the feature and that cost alone is about $850.00 as both left and right rears are running around $425 a piece.  

But it makes sense. If you get start money everyone who could would start and park. Provisionals are for the fans to see the driver's the promoters promised and for the teams to collect points to stay in the hunt.

I see your point. I'll concede that provisions make sense for the promoter who promised fans some stars, the fans who went to see those stars, and  the sponsors who want to see their sponsored car on the track. 

I'm still a little unsure about the thought of a whole bunch of corporate guys from Blatz Beer getting excited about seeing their name on Homer Skidmore's #99 iq as he charges from 26th to 19th and collects $0(?)

A couple questions  for someone smart, like maybe BillV: Are there  any WoO drivers who didn't have to use a provisional start in 2026? What's been the highest finish for a WoO driver using a provisional?

Kofoid took 2 provisionals at Williams Grove and finished 11th and 18th for $200.

Axsom took one at Stockton and finished 12th.

Schatz took one at Huset's and finished 16th for $500.

Windom used one in God's Country for 13th. (That's Canada for those who don't know).

Schuchart went to 8th at Eldora.

So these WoO guys are doing better than the 99IQ car.

A little different perspective (at least what I thought their purpose was).  I believe the provisionals came in the mid 90s at least that's when I first heard of them.  I always thought it was an idea ripped off from NASCAR.  In NASCAR they claimed it was for people who planned all year to go to one race and then their favorite driver didn't make it in and after spending all this time and money they didn't get to see their favorite driver race.  What I heard the real reason for these was it made it easier for teams to get sponsors if the sponsor knew they were going to be in every race.  So back to sprint car racing.  In the mid 90s there seemed to be a lot more corporate sponsors (Quaker State, Channellock, Penzoil, STP etc) coming in (and yes I know there were coorporate sponsors before then but I don't think as many) and the competition seemed to be tightening up.  I wonder if these were initially put in place for sponsors and their contracts?

I remember Andy Hillenburg in the mid 90s at the Nationals having his consecutive A main starts in Woo streak snapped when he turned down a provisional for the Nationals A main? Am I right about that?

Imagine this scenario.  Murph is at the Nationals and Larson's qualifying night and Friday redo ended up with a wadded up #57.  Now imagine the announcer referring to the new rule they call "Murphy's Law" preventing 20,000 from watching Sprint Csr Jesus in the A Main.  My question is do you want us to tell everyone what section you're sitting in?

But on a more serious note mark me down as a "I don't care either way".  Personally I never liked the idea but money and popularity make us do strange things sometimes.  

Stan Meissner

That doesn't sound right. I presume you're talking about The Knoxville Nationals, and not some *other* nationals. It has always been Knoxville's race, Knoxville's rules. I doubt that they would have let the WoO bend the rules to let in one of their guys who hadn't earned a spot in the race. (Weird concept-eh?)

There's probably some merit to that. What's the sprint car racing equivilent of Moneyball?

I think Knoxville already has the Murphy Rule in effect for the Nationals. You don't qualify for the Saturday feature, you don't get to race in the Saturday feature.

A couple years ago at a big Husets race, I saw Kyle Larson crash big time and be done for the night. You could hear a big sigh from the crowd.

I think I see an answer to the situation. For WoO races (and others who copy their format and rules), have 2 Non-qualifier races. The first race takes the top two finishers to the A-main and they get starting payout. The second race is made up of any WoO racers who are Platinum Members that didn't qualify. Top 6-8 finishers from that race go to the A-main and they might earn back enough money to pay for tires for the race.  Problem solved.

The way I remember it was THE Nationals and there was some controversy about it and that's why he turned it down. This was about thirty years or so ago and my memory does get sketchy.

I should do some research before I reply but everyone else could have too.  So this is when I first heard about the provisional.  And I thought he took it, and started 25th but my understanding was back then you got no money but only WOO points.  From my memory this was the mid 90s, I think 1995 (I say this because this was the days of there being only one live WOO race on, and it was on TNN and we recorded it and I probably watched fifty times how Mark Kinser started on the pole and finished third I think?  While Steve Kinser started 14th and won.  And how Jeff Swindell finished 2nd in the B-main (Blaney passed him for the win) and then finished 2nd in the A main and said "You can't be too pissed off about fifty grand".

Anyways I think this was the first time I heard about the WOO having a provisional.

I dont 'exactly' record in my database when a driver uses a provisional, but here is the numbers as of today for when drivers that start further back from 24th (that are more than likely a provisional)

2026 World of Outlaw Drivers count...

• 5 Chris Windom, Skylar Gee, Spencer Bayston
• 4 Cole Macedo, Conner Morrell, Ashton Torgerson, Bill Balog, Donny Schatz, Kasey Jedrzejek
• 3 Logan Schuchart, Michael Kofoid, Emerson Axsom, Garet Williamson
• 2 Sheldon Haudenschild
• 0 David Gravel, Carson Macedo

Of the 71 times someone started further than 24th in 2026 for World of Outlaws

• 4 finshed in Top 10
• 17 finished in Top 15
• 25->7 Logan Schuchart 4/11 I-55,MO
• 26->8 Garet Williamson 2/4 Volusia,FL
• 25->8 Logan Schuchart 7/17 Eldora,OH
• 25->10 Donny Schatz 4/25 Knoxville,IA

2026 High Limit Drivers count...

• 3 Brent Marks, Aaron Reutzel, Daison Pursley, Danny Sams III, Kerry Madsen, Sye Lynch, Tyler Courtney
• 2 Tanner Thorson, Chase Randall
• 1 Rico Abreu, Justin Peck, Tanner Holmes
• 0 Gio Scelzi

Of the 49 times someone started further than 24th in 2026 for High Limit

• 0 fiished in Top 10
• 10 finished in Top 15

Thanks Bill. I always find your work interesting and informative. This does reinforce your belief that provisionals don't really affect the outcome of the races. However, the stats do point out that consistently making the feature wins points championships, not provisional starts.