Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

From the race team's perspective:
-It allows a driver to earn some points in a race he didn't earn his way into. But, since his main competitors get the same amount of provisionals, it doesn't really give anyone an advantage
-It allows a driver who didn't earn his way into the feature a chance to go spend a lot more money than he will earn in the race.
-When's the last time anyone used a provisional and finished up front?
-Maybe some racers don't need provisionals? In that case, the guys who do get some extra points they didn't really earn.
-They allow a driver having a bad night to get his car in front of the paying fans and perhaps on TV for his sponsors.

From the fans' perspective:
-If I'm a big fan of Homer Skidmore in the #99 iq and he doesn't make the feature, is that going to stop me from buying a T-shirt? (Go Homer!)
-If Homer Skidmore is having an off night, am I really going to enjoy watching the 99iq getting lapped? Or getting caught up in someboay else's accident that he would have missed out on if he didn't start the feature?

Rather than give drivers a certain number of provisionals for a race they didn't earn their way into, why not give them a mulligan- a certain number of points or some extra show-up money? Since all the platinum drivers would be getting the same, it wouldn't really matter in the end.

What do you think?

From a fans point of view, example Donny Schatz's home tracks, West Fargo and River Cities. Locals attend to see their neighbour but the neighbour gets caught up in a wreck that isn't his fault after qualifying 1st and leading his heat, not having an off day to be lapped by fillers. Fans plan their weekend to see their Star compete but now he won't be in the main. They all go home frustrated and next year they go to their 3rd cousin's birthday party.

They have a purpose.

Well unfortunately Rod we live in a world of free passes and participation trophies where instead of just accepting yor neighbour just sucked that night and accepting the consequences of sucking they get to participate anyway.

Do the locals attend for only that reason? If Schatz doesn't make the feature, do they leave after the heat races?

In that scenario, it seems like Schatz would have also done poorly in the B-main. How well do you think he would do in the A-feature?

Would the average Schatz fan skip buying a T-shirt or going to Schatz's pit after the races if he took a provisional and finished 18th? What about if he earned his way into the feature, but finished 18th? 

Why aren't there provisionals for the World Series and the Super Bowl? I mean, what if my team just had a bad night, but deserved to be there?

*To be fair, I'm not arguing with you, I'm discussing some different angles that certainly muddy the situation.

They do have them in other sports. They are called Wild Card playoff spots. They keep having more of them for the money.

Here is my counter-point to people who complain about provisionals...

• Why do people care?  It's a reward for teams who support a series or track, why is that so bad?
• Very rarely do provisional starters make it to the front, so again, why does it matter?
• To me, sprint car racing is the best when the leaders get to lapped traffic.  The more cars on the track, the better chance of more laps in lapped traffic.
• Who does it hurt?  It doesn't take a spot from anyone.  It doesnt take any more money out of the promoters hands
• When and why did someone decide that only 24 cars start a feature, why not 20, 22, 26, 28?  There's no real reason to that, so what's the problem with more cars in the feature?
• A good analogy to 'other' sports would be individual sports like golf or tennis.  There are 'sponsor' exemptions added to tournaments all the time.

I would point out that last weekend Sheldon started 24th in a feature and went all the way to 4th.   It is possible to still have a decent point night, or in Sheldon's case a good point night under the right circumstances.   If Sheldon had not had a provisional available then he gets nothing.    

Thanks for pointing that out. The only sport I've ever followed is sprint car racing. Maybe some day I'll branch out and check out women's volleyball.

I'll correct one thing, Sheldon didn't actually use a provisional on that one.   He finished 4th in the B that night so he didn't need one.   

Thanks for the well thoughtout reply. I like sprint cars because it's all about excitement and competition. I can't watch a NASCAR race. In top level sprint car racing you have to earn your way into the feature. If you finish 5th in the B-main, you're done for the night. Unless, you have a provisional from the racing series. To me, that's like sitting on the bench because the coach put his kid in the game. 

I never thought about the number of cars to start in a race. Why have a last chance race? Why not put all the cars out there in the feature? Isn't there a big race somewhere that starts 33 sprint cars for the feature? Or, more to the pont, why not allow all the platinum members that didn't qualify for the A tag the tail of the feature?

So you're saying that provisionals mske your fan experience worse?  You would rather have that car in the trailer than on the track?  If Shatz, Kofoid, or Gravel have to tag the tail, you're not at all interested in how far forward they go?  I call BS on all that.

Couple things: I would submit that the drivers have pre-qualified for six features by signing their Platinum Member Agreement. Secondly, if it really bothers you, you could go to multiple races a weekend that there's not a provisional in sight. 

I don't know that it makes the fan experience worse, but it doesn't make it any better. Some cars end up in the trailer rather than in the feature. That's a reality unless we want to have 48 car feature races. What would be the best way to decide who's in the feature and who isn't? Maybe have time trials and qualifying heat races?

If Schatz, Kofoid or Gravel takes a provisional, are you watching them, or the guys racing for the lead? When those guys take a provisional, they aren't racing with Macedo, Schuchart, Haudenschild, etc. They are racing with the guys that barely earned their way into the feature. 

In this hypothetical race, is the guy who started on the pole out to a straightaway lead or are they duking it out at the front?

I'm a whole lot more interested in watching someone come through traffic than a guy lead every lap.  YRMV 

Thinking about the math here...

Each WoO driver gets 6 provisionals (?) I'd say that each time he uses one, he ends the night poorer than when he started. I've read where it costs about $5,0000 a night to run a WoO race. If my hero Home Skidmore takes a provisional, he gets $1,200 to start the feature. He also gets the same if he passes 10 cars and finished 14th. If he passes 8 more, he makes $1,400. If he has a stellar, Haudenschild run and passes 20 cars, he makes $3,400 for his efforts. Unless he finishes 3rd or better, he probably went backward on the checking account.

Beacause of the points awarded, Homer has to use his provisionals, as all the other drivers are using theirs and he'll lose ground. In the end-moneywise- does that benefit the team?

Fair point. If the race is a runaway- honestly, about half of the WoO races are- I'll watch a little farther back for some racing. But I'm probably not going to be watching to see if a superstar starting way back passes a lot of slower-usually local-cars. What, with all those guys taking provisionals, that's a lot of traffic to keep track of.

What if anything was different? It would be different. You can always find an exception. I don't watch baseballive but I do watch hockey and I have heard people say after they buy their tickets that they are disappointed that a certain player isn't playing that night 

You don't get last place money when you take a provisional. You only get money above the start amount. So if you move up to 10th and that pays 1600$ you only get $400 because you don't get the $1200 to start.

If fans only came to see their hero race, maybe the answer is to let all the Platinum -or what have you- drivers who didn't earn a spot in the feature just tag the tail?

That's interesting. I did not know that they didn't collect all the money when they used a provisional. That seems like more of a disincentive for the driver. The payout doesn't go too far in covering the cost of being in the race, but he feels compelled to be there, to try and pick up some point against all the others who are also compelled to. Seems like a win for the series franchise.