Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Gravel had a huge lead before the helmet was thrown resulting in yellow.  What if Gravel had got beat after the restart?  He would have been mad as hell. 

Quick glance around the track shows Haud's car was well outside where the rest of the crews, officials and other vehicles were. Officials absolutely blew that one.

It's clear to me that they didn't even see it happen. Sheldon is a platinum member, top 5 in points, and has the most wins on the season and Johnny doesn't even mention it when it happened.  They messed up, clear and simple.  Not to mention, how did they know that he didn't spin to the infield because the driveline had shredded his legs or that he didn't have a fuel fire?  

No doubt about it---------------------sprint car fans will always find a way to complain about the Outlaws.  First off, as someone pointed out earlier, the conspiracy garbage is getting dumb.  (see earlier thread "Hatred for the WoO" )   I just want to make sure I'm getting this clearly-------if the guy who is starting a rival sprint car series would have spun out, the WoO would have given him special treatment, but if the guy whose car is the series sponsor spins out.................they don't?  Are you all listening to yourselves type?

If they had thrown the yellow with Sheldon off the track, 50% of the fans on social media today would have been complaining that a phantom yellow was thrown (because of favoritism towards the series title sponsor) erasing Gravel's lead--------------how do we know this?  It's a broken record.  Whine.  Complain.  The Outlaws are ruining racing.  Rinse.  Repeat.  
 

Someone earlier asked if there had ever been a situation where a car had spun to the infield and no yellow was thrown.  Unless you are new to the sport, blind, or lying, you've all seen a car spin to a safe area with no yellow thrown.  Why do we act like this is a first?  
 

I also have always pulled for Sheldon.  However, there should be a penalty for throwing an object on the track, and his crew member should be suspended for "x" amount of races if his first offense.  The rest of the year if he has been a repeat offender.  Period.  

If you read the responses on several threads over a period of time on this message board you hear about favoritism and then I read the responses to this thread.  It does not matter if he spins out by himself or is spun by another driver, or if he is a platinum member or a local or he has a mom and pop sponsor or the series title sponsor, if you are involved in an incident and you are clear of everyone else....then I guess the procedure is to keep racing.  This works if everyone is held to the same standard.  I don't know that this occurs very often as pointed out in an earlier response, there are many tracks that have an inside wall as well as an outside wall.

One thing seems very clear and that is discipline is needed for the helmet being thrown.  If you do not agree, then please explain what situation makes it acceptable to create a deliberate safety issue.  Also, the allleged crew member needs disciplined as well for first getting involved in the moving of a participant after a spin and especially for instigating an altercation with a member of the safety crew.(not to mention showing the grandstands that he is number 1). Please also explain why it was appropriate for this knucklehead to be involved in the first place.  Neither the driver or the atv operator were getting there way and so they decided to pull shenanigans that were unsafe and beyond what is expected in their roles at a race.  

Well I am neither dumb or blind or new to the sport.  Unless you call owning and driving a 410 for 34 years new to the sport.  I have never seen or participated in a sprint car race where a car that has spun  a caution wasn't thrown.

We aren't  talking about some 4cyl race or enduros. 

Also.Mr.Genius when is a car spinning out a speed a safe situation?   So a car can spin to a safe area, what?

Gee do you think maybe there could be a reason they spun.  No according to you they want to play Joie Chitwood.

Wow I think you just might be blind and new to the sport!.  Thank God  you don't run race control.

So exactly how does the rule book read?  Until I know the rule, I can't determine for myself what should have been done on the yellow flag.  

Never said I didn't think a yellow shouldn't have been thrown.  I absolutely think one should have been thrown.  I said no one's ever happy.  People bitch about too many yellows.  Then they bitch about yellows not being thrown.  The main theme----people love to bitch about the WoO and point to conspiracy theories and complain that the organization is a pile of garbage----when it is CLEARLY the premier spint car series in the country.  Arrogant?  They'd better be.  If I was running this show, coming to your track, and filling the stands with fans paying $40+ per ticket, things are going to be run my way.   Period.   The business model works.  And yes, they are not going to be perfect nor are they going to make everyone happy on every single call.  

As far as seeing this type of situation-----with a car spinning to the infield----I've seen it multiple times.  I HAVE NOT seen it at a 410 show, but remember many times seeing cars at my (now defunct) local track spinning out, rolling into the infield, and the race continues----usually was towards the end of the race.  I have not seen this incident yet, but from what I've heard, it sounds like they are claiming they did not see him.  Not sure.  But to imply they intentionally ignored the driver of the series sponsor would be pure stupidity.  Should Sheldon be mad?  Sure.  However, he should accept the WoO explanation and move on.  It wasn't like they stole a win from him.  

Again, exactly how does the rule read regarding this situation?  Until we know, everything is just an comment with no merit. 

You know what, after thinking about my reply above, I'm going to change my thoughts.  If anyone who is a life long race fan claims they've never seen a car spin and a yellow NOT come out, they are a liar.  I can think of dozens of instances---maybe more.  Now, I don't know how this one went down, but it sounds like one should have been thrown.  To say it's unprecedented for a car to spin, and a yellow to not come out, is simply not true.  I've seen many cars spin on the track, the flagman looks on to see if they need to throw a yellow (or if the car is going to continue) and the car pull in or coasts to the infield or pit exit---- and the race continues.  MANY times.  I take back the 410 comment.  I've seen it in 410's as well.  

That said, I don't think those examples fit the context of this example.  But I can think of situations where it has happened.  

If Haudenschild spun off the track at speed and came to a stop in the infield, that means any of the other cars could have done the same thing, at ran into him. That's reason enough to throw a yellow. 

Right or wrong there nothing better than watching a good driver come from the back.People want to see the best drivers and when Sheldon is on the track he is one people pay to watch.Tonys episode of throwing his helmet has been replayed hundreds of times.

Reckon Paul was out of harm's way when all-stars threw a caution last year? 

https://www.floracing.com/collections/6768612-thrills-spills/video?playing=7171091

I have not yet seen video nor have I gotten a good description.  It sounds like a yellow should have been thrown and they missed it.  Someone asked if anyone had ever spun out and a yellow not come out.  The answer is yes.  It doesn't sound like that applies here, but I've seen it before.  So has everyone else. 

A few weeks ago, I believe in pa, a car flipped over the rail in turns 3 and 4. He was well off the track and out of harms way. Stawser would this be a case they shouldn't have thrown a red? 

Well said sir.

If one car spun out and was sitting there, either outside the track or in the infield, in a unprotected spot there is a chance another car could do the same.  In this age that is so safety focused why wouldnt they throw a caution? 

As others have said, he didn't spin out, he was turned.

I remember very clearly being upset with the Outlaws in the past about them throwing a yellow when someone spun well off of the track.   The response was that if the first car could get there it is reasonable to assume that another car can spin to the same spot.

So, if history states that you throw a yellow when a driver is turned, and you throw a yellow when a car is in danger, why are we surprised that Sheldon reacted the way he did?

Sheldon's car wasn't the only risk factor in the infield. I'm sure there were some people and other vehicles of various sorts as well. The infield isn't a barren desert.  More than likely he was stopped out of harms way to a degree no more or less than other people or misc objects around the area. 

I'll ask you the same question. If you were Haudenschild and felt you had been wonged. What should you have done? I  know that throwing the helmet is the wrong answer, but what about the time leading up to that?