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Topic: Top 10 sprint car drivers of all time
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September 26, 2019 at
05:35:52 PM
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A similar thread about the current top 5 spurred the idea behind this thread.
If I were to list my idea of the top 10, the top 4 would be:
1) Steve Kinser
2) Donny Schatz
3) Doug Wolfgang
4) Sammy Swindell
As I said in the other post, it gets a little hazier after that.In my mind, some of the possibles for the other 6 spots might be:
Jac Haudenschild
Rick Ferkel
Mark Kinser
Jan Opperman
Kenny Weld
Jack Hewitt
Bobby Allen
Steve Smith- I remember someone interviewing Fred Rahmer and he refered to him as "Mr. Smith" with some revernce in his voice. I think that says something about your abilities when your competitors recognize your competitiveness.
Fred Rahmer
Would you have the same top 4?
In the same order?
Who would be in your second heat?
Why?
What do you think?
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September 26, 2019 at
05:45:00 PM
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#1...Opp
#2 Steve Kinser
#3 Roger Rager
#4 Wolfie
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September 26, 2019 at
05:46:30 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on September 26 2019 at 05:35:52 PM
A similar thread about the current top 5 spurred the idea behind this thread.
If I were to list my idea of the top 10, the top 4 would be:
1) Steve Kinser
2) Donny Schatz
3) Doug Wolfgang
4) Sammy Swindell
As I said in the other post, it gets a little hazier after that.In my mind, some of the possibles for the other 6 spots might be:
Jac Haudenschild
Rick Ferkel
Mark Kinser
Jan Opperman
Kenny Weld
Jack Hewitt
Bobby Allen
Steve Smith- I remember someone interviewing Fred Rahmer and he refered to him as "Mr. Smith" with some revernce in his voice. I think that says something about your abilities when your competitors recognize your competitiveness.
Fred Rahmer
Would you have the same top 4?
In the same order?
Who would be in your second heat?
Why?
What do you think?
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I can't quite fill the top 10 properly, HOWEVER:
1. Same top 4 for me. (too difficult for me to order as good arguments can be made for any combination)
2. Have to include the following drivers in top 10:
Lasoski---won the biggest race on the planet 4 times, was an Outlaw champion, and all-time wins leader at Knoxville
Jac
Mark Kinser
3. The other 3 spots are really a toss up for me. I'm not old enough to have seen Weld or Opperman (at least not old enough to remember them) and I didn't get to see a lot of the PA guys.
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September 26, 2019 at
06:15:20 PM
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All time is hard, because I literally have no idea what happened prior to 1978 (beginning of WoO era) outside of who won Knoxville.
from 1978, here’s a list:
1 The King
2 Schatz
3 Sammy
4 Wolfgang
5 Mark kinser
6 Dave Blaney
7 Dude
8 Haud
9 Saldana
10 Meyers
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September 26, 2019 at
09:02:54 PM
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This message was edited on
September 26, 2019 at
09:19:39 PM by cubicdollars
- Steve Kinser 690 WoO / 20 Championships (12 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Donny Schatz 290+ WoO / 10 Championships (10 Knoxville Nationals)
- Sammy Swindell 394 WoO / 3 Championships (1 Knoxville / Own Crew Chief & Owner)
- Doug Wolfgang 481 (140 WoO) / (5 Knoxville Nationals)
- Dick Gaines 600-800 but many pre-dated sprint cars (1 Knoxville Nationals)
- Danny Lasoski 375 Total (122 WoO) / 1 WoO & NST, 9 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals)
- Fred Rahmer 415 (12 car inversion) / 25 Track Championships
- Bob Kinser 400 / 29 Championships
- Kenny Weld 225 / 8 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals) (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines)
- Mark Kinser 203 WoO/ 2 Championships (3 Knoxville Nationals)
- Lance Dewease 347 / 15 Track Championships
- Jan Opperman 225 (1 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Jack Hewitt 300 / (4 Crown Eldora) Made it to Indy
- Bobby Allen 267 (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines/Owner) (1 Knoxville National)
- Jack Haudenschild 300 / Mopar Million
- Keith Kauffman 309 / 18 Track Championships
- Greg Hodnett 252 / 8 Track Championships
- Bryan Clauson 170 wins / Chasing 200 Made it to Indy
- Tommy Hinnershitz 103 USAC AAA / 7 Championships (Own Crew Chief/Engines & Owner)
- Tony Stewart 1st USAC Triple Crown Made it to Indy
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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September 26, 2019 at
09:15:00 PM
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This message was edited on
September 26, 2019 at
09:17:37 PM by Murphy
Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on September 26 2019 at 09:02:54 PM
- Steve Kinser 690 WoO / 20 Championships (12 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Donny Schatz 290+ WoO / 10 Championships (10 Knoxville Nationals)
- Sammy Swindell 394 WoO / 3 Championships (1 Knoxville / Own Crew Chief & Owner)
- Doug Wolfgang 481 (140 WoO) / (5 Knoxville Nationals)
- Dick Gaines 600-800 but many pre-dated sprint cars (1 Knoxville Nationals)
- Danny Lasoski 375 Total (122 WoO) / 1 WoO & NST, 9 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals)
- Fred Rahmer 415 (12 car inversion) / 25 Track Championships
- Bob Kinser 400 / 29 Championships
- Kenny Weld 225 / 8 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals) (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines)
- Mark Kinser 203 WoO/ 2 Championships (3 Knoxville Nationals)
- Lance Dewease 347 / 15 Track Championships
- Jan Opperman 225 (1 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Jack Hewitt 300 / (4 Crown Eldora) Made it to Indy
- Bobby Allen 267 (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines/Owner) (1 Knoxville National)
- Jack Haudenschild 300 / Mopar Million
- Keith Kauffman 309 / 18 Track Championships
- Greg Hodnett 252 / 8 Track Championships
- Bryan Clauson 170 wins / Chasing 200 Made it to Indy
- Tommy Hinnershitz 103 USAC AAA / 7 Championships (Own Crew Chief/Engines & Owner)
- Tony Stewart 1st USAC Triple Crown Made it to Indy
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Wow, Bob Kinser and Dick Gaines numbers!
Tony Stewart- didn't he als drive one of those fender cars for a while too? 
Out of curiosity, what does Steve Smith's record look like?
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September 26, 2019 at
09:19:00 PM
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This message was edited on
September 26, 2019 at
09:34:49 PM by cubicdollars
Reply to:
Posted By: Murphy on September 26 2019 at 09:15:00 PM
Wow, Bob Kinser and Dick Gaines numbers!
Tony Stewart- didn't he als drive one of those fender cars for a while too?
Out of curiosity, what does Steve Smith's record look like?
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- Stevie Smith 200 (84 WoO) / 2 Track Championships
- Steve Smith 266 / 5 Track Championships (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines & Owner)
Hodnett, Clauson and Hinnershitz are sentimental favorites or the Black Bandits would have been mixed in.
They don't even know how to spell sprint car
much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com
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September 26, 2019 at
09:36:38 PM
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No stats here, just memories from some of my favorites. Rich"maddog" Vogler, Steve Kinser, Ron Shuman, Sammy, Wolfgang, Lealand Mcspadden, Robbie Stanley, Dave Steele, Fast Freddie, and Keith Kauffman, Jack Hewitt. I guess thats 11 forgive me.
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September 26, 2019 at
09:46:45 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on September 26 2019 at 09:02:54 PM
- Steve Kinser 690 WoO / 20 Championships (12 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Donny Schatz 290+ WoO / 10 Championships (10 Knoxville Nationals)
- Sammy Swindell 394 WoO / 3 Championships (1 Knoxville / Own Crew Chief & Owner)
- Doug Wolfgang 481 (140 WoO) / (5 Knoxville Nationals)
- Dick Gaines 600-800 but many pre-dated sprint cars (1 Knoxville Nationals)
- Danny Lasoski 375 Total (122 WoO) / 1 WoO & NST, 9 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals)
- Fred Rahmer 415 (12 car inversion) / 25 Track Championships
- Bob Kinser 400 / 29 Championships
- Kenny Weld 225 / 8 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals) (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines)
- Mark Kinser 203 WoO/ 2 Championships (3 Knoxville Nationals)
- Lance Dewease 347 / 15 Track Championships
- Jan Opperman 225 (1 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Jack Hewitt 300 / (4 Crown Eldora) Made it to Indy
- Bobby Allen 267 (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines/Owner) (1 Knoxville National)
- Jack Haudenschild 300 / Mopar Million
- Keith Kauffman 309 / 18 Track Championships
- Greg Hodnett 252 / 8 Track Championships
- Bryan Clauson 170 wins / Chasing 200 Made it to Indy
- Tommy Hinnershitz 103 USAC AAA / 7 Championships (Own Crew Chief/Engines & Owner)
- Tony Stewart 1st USAC Triple Crown Made it to Indy
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I'm not going to get started on a list of my own, but I thank you for the inclusion of Dick Gaines. I've always felt that he was under rated in polls of this nature.
Something else to consider in his favor is that he not only won Knoxville, but also won Little 500 - twice.
There will probably never be any other driver who will be able to make that claim to fame.
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September 27, 2019 at
03:51:58 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on September 26 2019 at 09:02:54 PM
- Steve Kinser 690 WoO / 20 Championships (12 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Donny Schatz 290+ WoO / 10 Championships (10 Knoxville Nationals)
- Sammy Swindell 394 WoO / 3 Championships (1 Knoxville / Own Crew Chief & Owner)
- Doug Wolfgang 481 (140 WoO) / (5 Knoxville Nationals)
- Dick Gaines 600-800 but many pre-dated sprint cars (1 Knoxville Nationals)
- Danny Lasoski 375 Total (122 WoO) / 1 WoO & NST, 9 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals)
- Fred Rahmer 415 (12 car inversion) / 25 Track Championships
- Bob Kinser 400 / 29 Championships
- Kenny Weld 225 / 8 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals) (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines)
- Mark Kinser 203 WoO/ 2 Championships (3 Knoxville Nationals)
- Lance Dewease 347 / 15 Track Championships
- Jan Opperman 225 (1 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Jack Hewitt 300 / (4 Crown Eldora) Made it to Indy
- Bobby Allen 267 (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines/Owner) (1 Knoxville National)
- Jack Haudenschild 300 / Mopar Million
- Keith Kauffman 309 / 18 Track Championships
- Greg Hodnett 252 / 8 Track Championships
- Bryan Clauson 170 wins / Chasing 200 Made it to Indy
- Tommy Hinnershitz 103 USAC AAA / 7 Championships (Own Crew Chief/Engines & Owner)
- Tony Stewart 1st USAC Triple Crown Made it to Indy
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I would go with that list except for switching Wolfgang and Swindell.
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September 27, 2019 at
03:52:14 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on September 26 2019 at 09:02:54 PM
- Steve Kinser 690 WoO / 20 Championships (12 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Donny Schatz 290+ WoO / 10 Championships (10 Knoxville Nationals)
- Sammy Swindell 394 WoO / 3 Championships (1 Knoxville / Own Crew Chief & Owner)
- Doug Wolfgang 481 (140 WoO) / (5 Knoxville Nationals)
- Dick Gaines 600-800 but many pre-dated sprint cars (1 Knoxville Nationals)
- Danny Lasoski 375 Total (122 WoO) / 1 WoO & NST, 9 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals)
- Fred Rahmer 415 (12 car inversion) / 25 Track Championships
- Bob Kinser 400 / 29 Championships
- Kenny Weld 225 / 8 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals) (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines)
- Mark Kinser 203 WoO/ 2 Championships (3 Knoxville Nationals)
- Lance Dewease 347 / 15 Track Championships
- Jan Opperman 225 (1 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Jack Hewitt 300 / (4 Crown Eldora) Made it to Indy
- Bobby Allen 267 (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines/Owner) (1 Knoxville National)
- Jack Haudenschild 300 / Mopar Million
- Keith Kauffman 309 / 18 Track Championships
- Greg Hodnett 252 / 8 Track Championships
- Bryan Clauson 170 wins / Chasing 200 Made it to Indy
- Tommy Hinnershitz 103 USAC AAA / 7 Championships (Own Crew Chief/Engines & Owner)
- Tony Stewart 1st USAC Triple Crown Made it to Indy
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I would go with that list except for switching Wolfgang and Swindell.
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September 27, 2019 at
05:34:22 AM
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I look at that list and chuckle. Steve Kinser 690, wow that is amazing, and people said Donnie would surpass that. I don't think so. As for the rest of it. A couple of West coast guys weren't all that bad in there day either.
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September 27, 2019 at
07:38:00 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on September 26 2019 at 09:02:54 PM
- Steve Kinser 690 WoO / 20 Championships (12 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Donny Schatz 290+ WoO / 10 Championships (10 Knoxville Nationals)
- Sammy Swindell 394 WoO / 3 Championships (1 Knoxville / Own Crew Chief & Owner)
- Doug Wolfgang 481 (140 WoO) / (5 Knoxville Nationals)
- Dick Gaines 600-800 but many pre-dated sprint cars (1 Knoxville Nationals)
- Danny Lasoski 375 Total (122 WoO) / 1 WoO & NST, 9 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals)
- Fred Rahmer 415 (12 car inversion) / 25 Track Championships
- Bob Kinser 400 / 29 Championships
- Kenny Weld 225 / 8 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals) (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines)
- Mark Kinser 203 WoO/ 2 Championships (3 Knoxville Nationals)
- Lance Dewease 347 / 15 Track Championships
- Jan Opperman 225 (1 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Jack Hewitt 300 / (4 Crown Eldora) Made it to Indy
- Bobby Allen 267 (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines/Owner) (1 Knoxville National)
- Jack Haudenschild 300 / Mopar Million
- Keith Kauffman 309 / 18 Track Championships
- Greg Hodnett 252 / 8 Track Championships
- Bryan Clauson 170 wins / Chasing 200 Made it to Indy
- Tommy Hinnershitz 103 USAC AAA / 7 Championships (Own Crew Chief/Engines & Owner)
- Tony Stewart 1st USAC Triple Crown Made it to Indy
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Super Chuck appreciates your list, but Lasoski has 451 career wins, 11 Knoxville Track Titles and both NSL titles.
Super Chuck
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September 27, 2019 at
07:47:23 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: Super Chuck on September 27 2019 at 07:38:00 AM
Super Chuck appreciates your list, but Lasoski has 451 career wins, 11 Knoxville Track Titles and both NSL titles.
Super Chuck
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And some Husets titles for what that's worth.
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September 27, 2019 at
07:48:57 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on September 26 2019 at 09:02:54 PM
- Steve Kinser 690 WoO / 20 Championships (12 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Donny Schatz 290+ WoO / 10 Championships (10 Knoxville Nationals)
- Sammy Swindell 394 WoO / 3 Championships (1 Knoxville / Own Crew Chief & Owner)
- Doug Wolfgang 481 (140 WoO) / (5 Knoxville Nationals)
- Dick Gaines 600-800 but many pre-dated sprint cars (1 Knoxville Nationals)
- Danny Lasoski 375 Total (122 WoO) / 1 WoO & NST, 9 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals)
- Fred Rahmer 415 (12 car inversion) / 25 Track Championships
- Bob Kinser 400 / 29 Championships
- Kenny Weld 225 / 8 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals) (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines)
- Mark Kinser 203 WoO/ 2 Championships (3 Knoxville Nationals)
- Lance Dewease 347 / 15 Track Championships
- Jan Opperman 225 (1 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Jack Hewitt 300 / (4 Crown Eldora) Made it to Indy
- Bobby Allen 267 (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines/Owner) (1 Knoxville National)
- Jack Haudenschild 300 / Mopar Million
- Keith Kauffman 309 / 18 Track Championships
- Greg Hodnett 252 / 8 Track Championships
- Bryan Clauson 170 wins / Chasing 200 Made it to Indy
- Tommy Hinnershitz 103 USAC AAA / 7 Championships (Own Crew Chief/Engines & Owner)
- Tony Stewart 1st USAC Triple Crown Made it to Indy
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Is there a reference source that you're pulling the numbers from? (Or is this all from memory? )
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September 27, 2019 at
08:48:51 AM
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A top five without Gus Schrader is not a top five...nor is a top ten without Emory Collins...and the original post without Jan Opperman? This must be a "last thirty years" list?
If this post isn't results, stories or something c
constructive, it isn't me!
@BillWMedia
www.OpenWheel101.com
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September 27, 2019 at
09:37:44 AM
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This message was edited on
September 27, 2019 at
09:38:45 AM by singlefile
Almost all these lists have way too much recency bias. When the NSCHoF did their ranking of the greatest Sprint Car drivers of the 20th century back in 1999, the top 10 was Steve Kinser, Tommy Hinnershitz, A.J. Foyt, Jan Opperman, Ted Horn, Parnelli Jones, Sammy Swindell, Doug Wolfgang, Rex Mays and Larry Dickson.
Obviously, guys like Schatz need to be included on a current list, but a list without Foyt, Opperman, Hinnershitz, etc.? Come on.
Sprint Car racing did exist before the 1980s.
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September 27, 2019 at
10:02:13 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: singlefile on September 27 2019 at 09:37:44 AM
Almost all these lists have way too much recency bias. When the NSCHoF did their ranking of the greatest Sprint Car drivers of the 20th century back in 1999, the top 10 was Steve Kinser, Tommy Hinnershitz, A.J. Foyt, Jan Opperman, Ted Horn, Parnelli Jones, Sammy Swindell, Doug Wolfgang, Rex Mays and Larry Dickson.
Obviously, guys like Schatz need to be included on a current list, but a list without Foyt, Opperman, Hinnershitz, etc.? Come on.
Sprint Car racing did exist before the 1980s.
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I didn't exist before 1973, so it's unfair for someone my age to comment on the early era. We know only numbers in a book and online. There is no gauge for us to compare these numbers to. I've been told by many ol' timers the cars became more and more equal as time has gone by----that it ain't what it used to be when a car could consistently come through the field and win. Did they have more superior cars? Bigger pocketbooks? It's tough for me to judge. I have heard as the years go by "it's harder to win every year." The only list I can put together is based on things I either saw, or was alive to read about as they happened.
Cy Young has the most wins of any pitcher in MLB history-----but I can't put him on my top 5---maybe even 10. I didn't see him pitch. I heard about this era. Lots of "fast" balls. I feel like there may be 200 guys out there today in the majors and minors that have more "stuff" and talent than Cy Young did. But it's only a guess because I didn't get to see him. I don't feel right putting him on a list because of his massive win total back when they pitched 4 or 5 times a week. Different era.
So, I don't think anyone means any disrespect, but you are talking about guys from 40-50 years ago---before a lot of us were born. Hard to judge greatest of all time off of stats alone.
On the other hand, I truly appreciate those who did see them and their ranking in the top 10.
JMO
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September 27, 2019 at
10:24:21 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: cubicdollars on September 26 2019 at 09:02:54 PM
- Steve Kinser 690 WoO / 20 Championships (12 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Donny Schatz 290+ WoO / 10 Championships (10 Knoxville Nationals)
- Sammy Swindell 394 WoO / 3 Championships (1 Knoxville / Own Crew Chief & Owner)
- Doug Wolfgang 481 (140 WoO) / (5 Knoxville Nationals)
- Dick Gaines 600-800 but many pre-dated sprint cars (1 Knoxville Nationals)
- Danny Lasoski 375 Total (122 WoO) / 1 WoO & NST, 9 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals)
- Fred Rahmer 415 (12 car inversion) / 25 Track Championships
- Bob Kinser 400 / 29 Championships
- Kenny Weld 225 / 8 Track Championships (4 Knoxville Nationals) (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines)
- Mark Kinser 203 WoO/ 2 Championships (3 Knoxville Nationals)
- Lance Dewease 347 / 15 Track Championships
- Jan Opperman 225 (1 Knoxville Nationals) Made it to Indy
- Jack Hewitt 300 / (4 Crown Eldora) Made it to Indy
- Bobby Allen 267 (Own Crew Chief/Chassis/Engines/Owner) (1 Knoxville National)
- Jack Haudenschild 300 / Mopar Million
- Keith Kauffman 309 / 18 Track Championships
- Greg Hodnett 252 / 8 Track Championships
- Bryan Clauson 170 wins / Chasing 200 Made it to Indy
- Tommy Hinnershitz 103 USAC AAA / 7 Championships (Own Crew Chief/Engines & Owner)
- Tony Stewart 1st USAC Triple Crown Made it to Indy
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You’re missing Dave Blaney: 94 WoO wins (8th all time), ‘95 WoO champ, 47 ASCoC wins (7th), ‘97 Knoxville Nats, ‘93 and ‘95 King’s Royal
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September 27, 2019 at
11:16:31 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: singlefile on September 27 2019 at 09:37:44 AM
Almost all these lists have way too much recency bias. When the NSCHoF did their ranking of the greatest Sprint Car drivers of the 20th century back in 1999, the top 10 was Steve Kinser, Tommy Hinnershitz, A.J. Foyt, Jan Opperman, Ted Horn, Parnelli Jones, Sammy Swindell, Doug Wolfgang, Rex Mays and Larry Dickson.
Obviously, guys like Schatz need to be included on a current list, but a list without Foyt, Opperman, Hinnershitz, etc.? Come on.
Sprint Car racing did exist before the 1980s.
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I enjoy questions like the one that the OP posted but I get locked up on who I have seen. singlefile hits it on the head when he brings up AJ, Parnelli and some of the other 'old-timers'. Others like Mario Andretti and Al Unser probably didn't race enough in sprint cars to be considered all-time greats before moving on to other forms of racing.
As several other posters noted, its always tough to compare eras due to changes in the sport. In no particular order:
Steve
Doug
Sammy
AJ
Opp
Rex Mays
Ted Horn
Dick Gaines
Donny
Shuman/Vogler/Hewitt - take your pick
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