Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I'll go back to BAPS for regular shows, and will support our other tracks when the ASCOC isn't there. Luckily we have dozens of tracks around here and the ASCOC can only be in one place so it won't be too difficult to avoid them/go to an actual race where the winner is decided on the track. 

No it won't, not without a very good explanation and correction by the All-Stars.  You obviously ween't there or didn't watch on Speed/Shift.  The fans were pissed and they had a good right to me, this was handled very poorly and needs to be corrected quickly and everyone needs to know this ASAP.  If I was Tony, I would pay each of the disqualified drivers at least last place money, heck make it $1,000 as most of them were going to be in the running anyway.  This would be a nice start and then a policy/rule  change as soon as possible, heck at least claify it a whole lot more.  You don't want to lose the Posse fan or Driver they to the All-Stars are more than important for the future success of their business.....

This message is in reference to Kingpin who thinks everything is going to be fine in a couple of weeks....

Well said Sir, maybe the best post on the whole subject, it is in my world.  Thanks for the input....

It's funny, reading alot of posts on here and other places folks are acting like the crews going out on the track was the reason for the DQ. It was not, they only left the "box" that they were apparently supposed to be in.  So really the drivers were DQ'ed for their crew guys doing absolutely nothing to their cars to gain an advantage.  Instead they were just strolling around, looking for better views. And since no officials saw it and the Rudeen team tattled, that makes it even more ridiculous. Bad call no matter what teams got screwed.

"If the rule you followed, led you to this, of what use was the rule?"

-Anton Chigurh

I can see where you are coming from, however everything you stated would be considered common anywhere in the country.  What I was saying is this rule is very specific to the All Stars, therefore it needs to be explained in much more detail.  By your logic, there is the reason why signs on the highway say Fines Are Double in work zones.  Everyone knows speeding is illegal, however there are special enforcement in work areas not common to normal spreeding, therefore the enforcement is stated in this particular situation.  If the All Stars want their own rules, go right ahead - it is their party and they can do what they want.  However they need to make sure that if they do make up their own rules, they really need to explain them for longer then 12 seconds in the driver meeting.

I know a lot of people on here may not have Facebook but there are several pages of people that are losing their minds over this and throwing temper tantrums over the ruling, and today within 24hrs this thread already has 70+ replies on it. Several people have posted something from a Krietz 69 page (not sure if it is actually from the team) of a 12 second clip where the offical at the drivers meeting basically states where the cones are for team members to stay during the night. In the post it states that they were not told that they would be disqualified for leaving the area. So basically they are acknowledging that they heard the offical state that but they just did not understand how bad the punishment would be and don't agree with it?? Well if you don't break the rule then you don't have to worry about the consequences. More teams followed the rule than broke it. Other tracks have had the same rule in the past and so far prior to last night only 1 team has not followed it (Larson's crew). So the enforcement of the rules has been consistent by the All Stars.

I think Dakota Dude stated the best question and I would say the following. If it were 5 All Star drivers that were DQ'd last night then this is not as big of an issue as it is now. Since it was PA or local drivers racing a sanction race by one of those "EVIL" sanctioning bodies that a lot of people hate on message boards because they somehow "have it out for the local guy" its now an issue when its not. Rules are rules and they can be changed which is what the All Stars will do. 2wks from now it will all have blown over, the 69K or another Posse car will probably win at Port Royal, they will probably say something about this in victory lane, the crowd will go wild, and the All Stars will be back in central PA next year.

Again, in two weeks it will not have blown over. At least not for me. I will not go to another ASCOC shit show. I walked out with about 50% of the fans at the track, do you honestly think having been robbed out of $22 that every one of them is going to line up to pay $35 in a few weeks at Port to potentially have the ASCOC officials determine the outcome again? 

I can guarantee you that I will not be at the 50, I will not be at the Dirt Classic, and I will not be at any other ASCOC show. I got screwed out of what I paid for last night, it was a disgrace to sprint car racing, and a disgrace to what should have been a fitting memorial race in honor of fallen veterans. 

Also, the video from the Kreitz page is official, and the explanation is anything but clear. Clearly, as several very experienced teams were caught by this BS. Everyone thought that they had to be in that area to work on the car as it is the work area. They all watch the races from the infield tower and other spots in the infield (where fans, and other people with pit passes were watching last night) every race at BAPS. There is no advantage gained, and there is no reason for this rule other than to overinflate the rule book and allow the officials to throw their weight around. 

It was bullshit. More so than any event I've ever attended in my life and I will absolutely NEVER forget it. 

It’s hilarious they think that 12 second video benefits their case, when 1- it explicitly mentions the cones and work area and 2- its literally a tiny snippet of the meeting.

Like I said above I agree with you, this will be blown over. I’m sure a few Posse fans will carry it on and continue to be mad, but 98% of everyone else will forget about it and the ASCoC races in September will have great crowds. I remember Larson getting DQ’d for this had an uproar that literally was gone within a few days. The only reason this will take a few weeks is the all-stars will be back in PA soon. 

The races at Port and Lincoln will have great crowds I'm sure, as even if you excluse everyone who was at BAPS last night the Tuscarora 50 crowd would still be good. It only takes a handfull of pissed of fans to cost the track thousands of dollars. If the event is less profitable then they may think twice about wasting their money on sanction fees with that joke of a series in the future. That is assuming that all of the drivers come back in two weeks because if DD or Lance were to skip any of the upcoming races that could really have an effect on the amount of fans. Lance/Kreitz already said they may not support BAPS in the future simply because they allowed the all stars to DQ them.

"Boycotting" the All Stars only hurts the local tracks and the local teams.  The Sanctioning fee have already or will be paid if you show up or not.  The All Stars do not get a piece of every ticket sold so basically the All Stars will not feel an affect and the track paying the purse will get the full impact.  Which mean they lose money and then next’s years race will probably pay less.  I understand people are upset about what happened, but I think there are a lot of people overreacting and I hope no one person or team skip the 2 highest un outlaw sanction events in our area.  It took years to build these races to get this big, let not ruin them over 1 race.  

Yeah, and it's too bad. But if everyone just goes to the race and it is a huge success then the ASCOC will likely be back next season. I sincerely hope that some drivers and fans skip to make the track think about making it unsanctioned next year. Or they could just say no to the ASCOC this year and run it unsanctioned which would probably make it a huge success because you wouldn't have anyone staying home because they are pissed plus the extra publicity for telling the ASCOC to f**k themselves would probably drive more people in as well. Either way, people going does support the ASCOC, not directly, but by making the track more willing to host them next year. 

Port royal and Lincoln shows will be fine...the drivers wont miss a shot at those paydays however bedford and hagerstown could suffer

The Woo and All Star sanctions actually help the tracks as far as national recognation.....it brings out of state fans. Lose the sanctions and you lose some of the luster. Although we would like to think the events would be the same without any sanction, they really would not......again you would be hurting the local promotors with a boycott.

The events would be just as good without a sanction, the dirt classic has always been unsanctioned and has usually brought in interesting fields and drivers even when they run against WoO and ASCOC in the past (WoO was usually at Lernerville, and ASCOC at Eldora the same weekend). The 50 would be just as good and interesting with invaders like Brian Brown, Kerry Madsen, Swindell, and others along with the locals, etc. The races would do very well. There are plenty of big races all over the country that are unsanctioned and do well (The $100k race at Mansfield, Trophy Cup, etc). The thing that hurts local racing is just acting like nothing happened and to keep going to the track, because each time something like this occurs you are going to permanently lose some fans.

Imagine if that were your first race and suddenly 5 of the best cars in the field including the leader get disqualified for nothing that had any type of effect on the race. I won't be a dirt track fan if this is how its going to be, I'll find something else to do without a second thought. That comes from me, a hardcore fan that goes 80 times a year. What if last night was your 4th or 5th race of the season, as a casual fan, it's a joke and there is a whole lot less keeping those types coming back. 

I don't agree with the way things were handled last night but I think what happens next is what's important now. Do the all-stars do anything to address the issue(make the rule and penalty clearer) and smooth things over with the teams affected? An apology and start money would go a long way. What happened sucked because it ruined last nights show for a lot of fans and teams. Me personally, I'm not going to let it stop me from enjoying more all-star shows in the future. I like the all-stars more so than the outlaws and I think it's a good thing having them in for big shows. That's 10 more cars, good cars that are on more even financial footing as the locals. That makes a great show. They've been part of the Tuscarora 50 quite a few years and it adds tremendously to the show IMO. I already have my reserved seats and look forward to it as always. 

A

Sometimes things carry ramifications will beyond the actual event.

A. When people, in mass, walk out at the beginning of the marque event on the program and displaying their anger on the way, you already lost the debate on the right and the wrong of it. They decided.

B. A speedway, that has at times struggled, just saw their fans leavel in anger. Past today, that is their fanbase, period.

C. Tony Stewart is building the All Stars and this could be a major hit to eastern expansion and the riches of Cen. Pa.

D. In this, no one is right, and everyone lost....

The rules state that a number must be a minimum of 18 inches and any letter be 12 inches. I can guarantee that rule isn’t being followed. For anybody that says a rule is a rule then why isn’t that one enforced?

Blake

You didn't get screwed out of $22. The races happened, heats were ran, feature went green, and there was a finish. Just because some of your locals DQ'd for not doing what they were told, doesn't mean you got screwed. Earlier this year Jac was DQ'd for not having a working raceceiver. I was slightly upset at the ruling but rules are rules & I watched and continue to go to All Star races. More teams followed the rules than didn't. Like I said, if it were 5 All Star teams that were DQ'd people would not be up in arms about this. It would be, geez don't the all Stars know how to follow their rules?

If you want to continue to stew over it & not go to perfectly good races that's on you go right on ahead but the rest of the world will move on. Tony has said they are going to review & take action to fix it so the punishment most likely will be changed. If you want to be so offended to not go thats your right, but to hope that others don't attend & boycott because it's the All Stars is anti productive. Tracks paid a lot of money for that race and no matter what people want to think, you need sanctioning bodies. They are not an evil empire as some make them out to be

I see your point as well microsprint6