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Topic: Knoxville Nationals early entries/q'fying nites Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 2 of 5   of  84 replies
turn4guy
July 24, 2018 at 07:54:00 PM
Joined: 04/23/2015
Posts: 882
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I've always had a crush on Kendra Jacobs..



egras
July 24, 2018 at 10:53:20 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 4390
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Posted By: on at


Correct.  There is no difference in the quality of racing between 90 and 110 cars.  



blazer00
July 25, 2018 at 02:35:19 AM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
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This message was edited on July 25, 2018 at 02:40:47 AM by blazer00
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Posted By: egras on July 24 2018 at 10:53:20 PM

Correct.  There is no difference in the quality of racing between 90 and 110 cars.  



You're right, but keep in mind the cars are split into two nights. The Nationals qualifying format is designed for 50 cars each Wednesday and Thursday nights......five heats, ten cars to a heat. With heats inverted four rows (used to be all five). So with 100 plus cars the split makes it easier to have at least 50 each night. 




Paintboss
MyWebsite
July 25, 2018 at 10:05:16 AM
Joined: 12/02/2004
Posts: 2246
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Posted By: turn4guy on July 24 2018 at 07:54:00 PM

I've always had a crush on Kendra Jacobs..



LMAO....



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
July 25, 2018 at 10:23:54 AM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5721
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This message was edited on July 28, 2018 at 07:36:55 AM by StanM
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Posted By: egras on July 24 2018 at 10:53:20 PM

Correct.  There is no difference in the quality of racing between 90 and 110 cars.  



When I was younger and hitting the photography hard I'd camp at the tracks for multi day events.  I never shot the Nationals but I didn't care for huge car counts at some of the shows.  It meant that I wouldn't crack open my first beer until midnight.  wink


Stan Meissner

dsc1600
July 25, 2018 at 11:13:24 AM
Joined: 05/31/2007
Posts: 4580
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Posted By: blazer00 on July 25 2018 at 02:35:19 AM

You're right, but keep in mind the cars are split into two nights. The Nationals qualifying format is designed for 50 cars each Wednesday and Thursday nights......five heats, ten cars to a heat. With heats inverted four rows (used to be all five). So with 100 plus cars the split makes it easier to have at least 50 each night. 



Agreed, the Nationals is an event built for 100 cars, although now that they invert 8 instead of 10 in the heats, I guess you can get away with 80.




egras
July 25, 2018 at 11:26:21 AM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 4390
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Posted By: blazer00 on July 25 2018 at 02:35:19 AM

You're right, but keep in mind the cars are split into two nights. The Nationals qualifying format is designed for 50 cars each Wednesday and Thursday nights......five heats, ten cars to a heat. With heats inverted four rows (used to be all five). So with 100 plus cars the split makes it easier to have at least 50 each night. 



That is correct.  But, with the final 2 rows not included in the invert, only 80 cars are truly needed to complete the show.  I may be mistaken, but I seem to remember at least 1 time where there was not a C-main on one of the qualifying nights due to low car count and attrition.  Anyone else confirm this?  And, if memory serves me, the racing that night was fantastic. 



YungWun24
July 25, 2018 at 11:26:43 AM
Joined: 01/19/2009
Posts: 1328
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If the track was a little drier during the heats would it still be feasible to invert 10? I understand why they did it but is it all b/c of horsepower? 

Would the track rubber by the end of the night with 50-70 cars if the track was wider earlier in the night? Maybe not with only one class. This would obviously mean slower time trials, which I'm fine with, but I'm guessing the times would drop off more dramatically if the track was wider.

This is in no way a knock on Knoxville or their track prep, which is amazing. They're so good at what they do, given all the variables;  rain, humidity, wind, sun, plus 8 nights of racing in 10 days


Keep It Real

ColtanW
July 25, 2018 at 11:54:52 AM
Joined: 07/03/2010
Posts: 908
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Posted By: YungWun24 on July 25 2018 at 11:26:43 AM

If the track was a little drier during the heats would it still be feasible to invert 10? I understand why they did it but is it all b/c of horsepower? 

Would the track rubber by the end of the night with 50-70 cars if the track was wider earlier in the night? Maybe not with only one class. This would obviously mean slower time trials, which I'm fine with, but I'm guessing the times would drop off more dramatically if the track was wider.

This is in no way a knock on Knoxville or their track prep, which is amazing. They're so good at what they do, given all the variables;  rain, humidity, wind, sun, plus 8 nights of racing in 10 days



If I recall correctly, the main reason for switching to an 8 car invert was for safety. They determined that the speed/skill difference between those bottom two cars in each heat was too great so they moved them to the back to prevent accidents early in the heat races. I believe it was stated or at least hypothesized that if they ever got to a bigger car count, the 10 car inverts could come back because there might be less of a speed/skill differential between your 1st to 50th fastest cars.


Ask Frank


blazer00
July 25, 2018 at 12:09:26 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
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Posted By: ColtanW on July 25 2018 at 11:54:52 AM

If I recall correctly, the main reason for switching to an 8 car invert was for safety. They determined that the speed/skill difference between those bottom two cars in each heat was too great so they moved them to the back to prevent accidents early in the heat races. I believe it was stated or at least hypothesized that if they ever got to a bigger car count, the 10 car inverts could come back because there might be less of a speed/skill differential between your 1st to 50th fastest cars.



Could be, but I thought it had more to do with the fact that it was getting tougher and tougher to transfer from the fifth row with the cars being more equal.



Johnny Utah
July 25, 2018 at 12:39:32 PM
Joined: 07/15/2014
Posts: 1258
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Posted By: blazer00 on July 25 2018 at 12:09:26 PM

Could be, but I thought it had more to do with the fact that it was getting tougher and tougher to transfer from the fifth row with the cars being more equal.



Read the fourth post, especially the end.



StanM
MyResults MyPressRelease
July 25, 2018 at 12:54:43 PM
Joined: 11/07/2006
Posts: 5721
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In the case of the Knoxville Nationals the question becomes how many qualifying races does a person want to sit through before the 15 pulls into victory lane?


Stan Meissner


blazer00
July 25, 2018 at 03:25:34 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
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Posted By: Johnny Utah on July 25 2018 at 12:39:32 PM

Read the fourth post, especially the end.



What does that have to do with my post? Mine was about why the invert changed from five rows to four rows. Nothing to do with car count.



IADIRT
July 25, 2018 at 03:46:16 PM
Joined: 04/29/2014
Posts: 1246
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Thanks for the share. That was interesting to watch. This is gonna happen once in a while with a 10 car invert where some guy looses it in front of the field but some though it actually may be easier for the back row of the invert to move up with a full field invert. Really interesting debate. I understand both opinions. 



Johnny Utah
July 25, 2018 at 05:33:04 PM
Joined: 07/15/2014
Posts: 1258
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This message was edited on July 25, 2018 at 05:35:32 PM by Johnny Utah
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Posted By: blazer00 on July 25 2018 at 03:25:34 PM

What does that have to do with my post? Mine was about why the invert changed from five rows to four rows. Nothing to do with car count.



My initial comment was a link.




blazer00
July 25, 2018 at 06:35:11 PM
Joined: 06/10/2015
Posts: 2420
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Posted By: Johnny Utah on July 25 2018 at 05:33:04 PM

My initial comment was a link.



That discussion was about cars being more equal on a dry slick track. And I do disagree with that. But all cars are faster than they were and if you look back the qualifying times are tighter throughout the fields today than they were years ago.  I think last year on one of the nights at the Nationals there was only about a one second gap from quick time to slowest time. Back in the '80's and '90's I think gaps were as much as 2.5 seconds a lot of years from top to bottom. It did get tougher to transfer from the fifth row. Split hairs if you like on my statements, but my thoughts are that just because all the cars are faster today, that doesn't make them equal. Money still seperates the top performers from the rest.



egras
July 25, 2018 at 06:55:54 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 4390
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Posted By: StanM on July 25 2018 at 12:54:43 PM

In the case of the Knoxville Nationals the question becomes how many qualifying races does a person want to sit through before the 15 pulls into victory lane?



I say as many as they can give us in 4 day's time!!!!  Then, the cherry on top is when something magical happens and the 15 DOESN'T pull into victory lane!  Smile

It does happen here and there you know

 



Johnny Utah
July 25, 2018 at 07:19:29 PM
Joined: 07/15/2014
Posts: 1258
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Posted By: blazer00 on July 25 2018 at 06:35:11 PM

That discussion was about cars being more equal on a dry slick track. And I do disagree with that. But all cars are faster than they were and if you look back the qualifying times are tighter throughout the fields today than they were years ago.  I think last year on one of the nights at the Nationals there was only about a one second gap from quick time to slowest time. Back in the '80's and '90's I think gaps were as much as 2.5 seconds a lot of years from top to bottom. It did get tougher to transfer from the fifth row. Split hairs if you like on my statements, but my thoughts are that just because all the cars are faster today, that doesn't make them equal. Money still seperates the top performers from the rest.



I agree the cars are closer today. I was just seeking clarification of your statement from the previous week.




tylerurban
July 25, 2018 at 07:23:08 PM
Joined: 02/05/2007
Posts: 37
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I fully agree. Carl Wilson is the reason of the 8 car invert. i remember telling two rookie race fans that would be the end of the car Best races. While I can see the reasoning I long for the 10 car invert again. I fully agree that the 8 car invert better be around for a long time! 



sprintfanatic
July 25, 2018 at 08:56:31 PM
Joined: 12/06/2004
Posts: 1108
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Posted By: turn4guy on July 24 2018 at 07:54:00 PM

I've always had a crush on Kendra Jacobs..



And, turn4guy and many others have likely forgotten, the Jacobs sisters were really good softball players too.





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