Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Looking for thoughts from the profesionals here on Hoseheads of the Outlaws new format.  Under the new format the heats are now started straight up from qualifying which puts the fast time on the pole of the first heat, 2nd quick on the pole of the 2nd heat and so on.  The dash then consists of the top 2 from the heat races with the remainder of the field starting straight up from how they finished in their heats.  My personal thought is that I don't like some of it.  I like the part of top 2 going to the dash and lining the feature straight up from the heat finishes but I don't care for the straight up deal for heat race line-ups.  Just my .02.  Anyone else?  All in all, the sprint-cars and the late-models now have the same format except that the sprint cars still run a dash.

This puts more pressure on the Heat races. Guys are actually racing now instead of trying to cruise for 5th or better. Each position matters. I like it. 

Doesn't make sense to me....won't this just create more follow the leader racing?

When I first started going to dirt tracks in the early 1960s, it was total inversion based on points. It was great

Does everybody make the A-Main? Obviously not for big fields, so where is the cutoff?

The only problem with the heats and having to pass is that the track is still so narrow and usually tackey that passing is impossible, so all the fast timers will start on the pole every night. That is not very exciting.Sunday night the heat race times were faster than time trial times. That does't seem right. Plus if you get a bad pill to time you are done.

What are the dash inversion rules? Also, how is the pre-inversion lineup set? 

I was unaware that this was happening.  I think it is a horrible idea.

That being said, lets see how it plays out.  If it ruins the racing, I don't think it will be around long.  Realistically though, heat racing has traditionally been pretty boring anyways on most nights.  I don't know what this will change but we will see. 

Good question though

It makes the heats more meaningful, but it also gives the top qualifier clean air in his heat.

It certainly hasn't ruined racing yet, 2 of the 3 A Mains at VSP were exceptional. Last night was affected not so much by the format as the track, which never did dry out.

There is no cure for boring heat races as long as the entire field draws a pill for one qualifying position. Last year over 75% of the heats were won from the front row. Yeh that stat will go up this year but at least qualifying 9th through 12th (3 heat nights) or 13th through 16th (4 heat nights) won't be rewarded with the pole of a heat and more often than not a spot in the Dash. Inverts don't work today with the WoO qualifying system. The heats suck no matter which format and so does the Dash (might as well throw away the pill draw in that). Maybe under the new format the A Features will be more entertaining. 

I don't care for the group hotlaps in which I seen with Late Models before the sprints. That Late Model show at Attica was enough for me not pay that kind of money to see that crap again & if the WOO & All Stars start doing it (looks like they are) I will get very selective on where & when I spend my money. They are doing this in time where gas is cheaper & I'm willing to do a little more travelling. I'll have Aaron thank them because BOSS will be getting most of my money along with local shows.

Been going long enough to see the guys in said group & can just about tell ya the outcome of the heat before it happens Keep it mixed & lets see who is in what heat after time trials.

No 0, 2 or 4 for invert either 6, 8 or 10 should be the only numbers used.

Maybe they should do Aussie style, run a 2nd heat totally inverted.

Face it with the competition even with the invert how many of the heat races were won from the front row last year. Very few times the fast qualifier come from 4th to win the heat. I like the fact that guys that finish 3-6 in the heat have to race hard to not start in the back of the feature. Saw a couple of heats where guys starting 3-4 in a heat made it into the dash and took one of the fast quailfiers back to starting behind them. Also puts the pressure on the guys to transfer through their heat or if they go in the B they start on the tail.

It was tought to tell how it will play out based on last weekend but should be interesting when they get on some different tracks. With a 4 invert in the past everyone was a fast guy up front.

I've never been a fan of rewarding mediocrity. This format rewards those who time well and I like that. There's no sense in running time trials if timing well will get you stuck mid pack of a heat and timing somewhat shitty will get you on the front row. I think we'll see better heat races although heat races have always been about 75% boring since I've been going to the races so I don't think anything will ever completely change that. It should make it a little better now that each position means something. 

I still think the old format where the 4 heat winners and the top 4 qualifiers run the dash was the best. The only improvment they could do over that is start the feature heads up from the heats behind the dash cars. I think that would create good racing , plus take a bit of emphasis away from drawing a bad TT pill.

They are doing exactly that. 3rd place in heat 1 starts first car behind dash finishers

 Professional racers don't care how good the show is. At all.

JMO but scrap qualifying and dash...too many variables to be fair to competitors and both suck for most fans. 2 heats with the second being complete invert. Passing and Finish Points earned.Top 16 lock into A. 2 b mains taking top 4 from each for remaining spots. Still some variables but more fair for drivers and more entertaining to fans.

That would be the best format ever. It's still entertaining for the fans but there's no bullshit gimmicks that reward mediocrity and penalize drivers for being good just to artificially create entertainment and at the same time, its fair for the drivers because for the most part, their fate (void of the obvious variables that you mentioned that we'll never completely get rid of) is in their hands and they get what they earn. I absolutely love this. I wish we'd at least do this in Central PA.

I like that idea too

I feel the new format, though better than the old format, is too heavily weighted in favour of time trialists. Do a fast lap and all you have to do is maintain position in your heat to be guaranteed of a front 6-8 starting spot in the feature.

In New Zealand we use the same system as Australia, that is a dual heat system with marble draw and reverse grid starting spots.

A question for those of you who know your history. Have the Outlaws always used time trials as part of their format? Though Johnny Gibson does a great job of making time trials exciting (and they are run very efficiently), I struggle to get excited when watching one car on the track at any given time. I feel a dual heat format would provide more value for fans and a better challenge for drivers who would have to pass cars to start up front in the feature.

What are the arguments against? Are the tracks too good at heat time to allow for much passing given the quality of the fields? Tradition?

Will be interesting to see if Donny wins the same number of races this year. If Donny has a weakness it appears time trials are it and with this format an average time trial leaves drivers/teams with an uphill task.

I would guess Donny cranks it up a notch for his qualifying efforts this year. Many have said he was sandbagging in TTs, and this format will prove or disprove that theory.