Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

What if your race car shop was based out of Des Moines, IA. in 2016...

* You could run a schedule with a minimum of (50) 410 sprint car races from April thru October and not have to travel more than (400) miles from your shop. Nothing could be better than sleeping in your own bed just about every night, not to mention the money you would save on your hotel budget.

* The total round trip mileage for these (50) races would be about 12,000 miles. That means you could win (1) feature event for $5,000 and use that (1) check to cover your total fuel bill for your race car hauler for all (50) events, and still have enough left over to buy a hot dog and a beer.

* The winner's share of nightly purse money totals over $530,000 plus your team could be eligible for a share of over $400,000 in end of year point fund cash and contingencies.

* Looking at these (50) races, the Grand Daddy of them all, the Knoxville Nationals will pay $150,000 to win. Almost (2) dozen of these races will pay $10,000 or more to win, and at least (2) dozen races will be paying $5,000 to win.

* These races are an assortment of NSL sanctioned, WoO sanctioned and a few non-sanctioned events.

The future of 410 sprint car racing is alive and well in the Upper Midwest and the best is yet to come. The times...they are a changin'!

Stop by and say "Hey" at the NSL vendor booth at the PRI Show in Indianapolis. For those that won't be making the trip to Indy, we hope you all have a safe and happy holiday season...z

Fifty 410 races and two dozen races within 400 miles of home that pay $5,000 to win? That is a strong selling point? Yikes. Wonder how many 410 races there are  within 100 miles of Harrisburg, Pa., and how many of those pay more than $5,000 to win?

Yes, times are a changing and both good points made here about both circuits to save money . More teams will eventually run NSL in Midwest or run a outlaw type of schedule . And more teams come do well if they were based out of Pa area as well . Years ago look at the drivers who moved here to race and to improve there skills .

I thought that Bill W. was the media rep for the NSL?  Did he resign or am I confused and he never was the P.R. guy for this series?  Is this Chuck Z. the new person filling this role?

Bill is still the PR guy. I don't understand the boundaries either.

He stated "no further than 400 miles"........that's not the average distance....he states approx 12,000 miles total travel to make the 50 races, so the average round trip is 240 miles, or 120 one way as an average. So yeh, with the money that's up that's a great opportunity.

I'm going to use this past year's PA Speedweek, Path Valley Rahmer Shows, New Egypt shows and All-Star and World of Outlaws Schedules and tell you there are close to 50 races within 125 miles of Harrisburg that pay $5,000.00 to win(or more).  If you were willing to travel about 100 more miles, you'd be able to add Lernerville and possibly the NY All Star and WoO Swing(minus Leb Valley).  However, the mid-west point fund monies cannot be matched....either way, two great places to live in as a sprint car fan or a driver/owner.  Interesting subject!  Made me do a little research.

Instead of doing races as wins. Do it from 5th place pays, that is more like most teams would get night in and night out.

So a $10,000 to win race is $2000 for fifth.  $2,000 X 50 races is $100,000. 

Two Motors at $55,000 is $110,000.

Well yeah.  Almost no one actually wins enough to cover what it cost.  I doubt even the 15 car won enough money to pay for their costs for the year.  But with NSL in the area now a car does have the opportunity to make more.  Of course you have to ask, how big a part of the equation is travel expense versus equipment and crew?  Obviously the driver would make more the more he races.  But from an owners perspective, does more races just mean more loss?  Lol.  

With the end of the year point funds at Knoxville, Jackson, NSL, and team sponsorships, teams would be even closer to breaking even. A goal for many 410 teams in the area I am sure. This is for sure a step in the right direction for 410 racing in the midwest.

I like your idea of thinking about the average finish in relationship to the purse for a competitive team rather than just 1st place prize money when it comes to budgeting.    I also understand what you are pointing out with the motor cost, however, the costs you need to cover, as in any business are first, the maintenance and depreciation, not the initial capital cost.  As an example, no McDonalds pays for their building, equipment, land, etc. in their first year of opening.   We own a construction company.  We plan on paying off large equipment costs like excavators over five to seven  years.  On our 410 team, we hope to make motors last 5 years (with regular rebuilds) before replacing them. A year or two more for the 360s. 

50 races equates to 4 rebuilds on the 410s in a year.  2 rebuilds on each motor.  12 races between rebuilds per motor if all goes well.  Providing there is no part failure damage it will cost 14,000 per rebuild, The depreciation of both motors is roughly 8-10,000 per year.  So actual yearly 410 motor cost for 50 races would be roughly 75,000 per year. 4x14,000 plus 2x8,000 depreciation.   that is depreciatiing the initial cost over five years, allowing for a 15,000 resale value at five years.   If the owner isn't the driver, the driver gets paid 40 percent of the purse, or 50 percent if he wins.  That's for a driver that can run in the top five with Blaney, Lasoski, Kaeding, Smith, etc.  Tires, fuel, damage, pit passes, tow fuel adds another 2,000 per race minimum. 50 races at 2,000 is 100,000, plus motor cost iadds up to 175,000 minimum total operating with depreciation cost per year.  Pay the driver 40-50k for the 50 races, net loss is a minimum of 125,000 end of year.  That is after the initial investment of well over 250,000 for a decent truck, trailer(not even close to a WoO quality rig), two 410 motors, two complete cars, spares, etc.     That's the reality of competitive 410 racing.  

The post above was not to discredit or discount the NSL payout post, only to point out our experience and one teams example of the real operating costs we experienced running a competitive sprint team.   I like  where the NSL is going,  it actually sounds like a very good schedule and payout.  We always expect to supplement our operating expenses with advertising write offs for the construction company and with the generous help of a couple small sponsors, and the NSL payout over all of the races would make the year much more affordable and easier to race that many races.   

Baylands, I am curious who rebuilds your engines for $14,000 per rebuild?

So whats your point, are you trying to make people feel bad cause they don't live in Pa.? Things are much more spread out in the Midwest, NSL is just trying to make racing more practical for the teams in that area

Your right , about NSL and more teams in that area or even WoO teams may take advantage of that practical aspect and race NSL to save money and make money.

Everyone forgot the real player here is Knoxville. Its no secert that they lose  well into the high six figures on their weekly progam. If it wasnt for the NATIONALS they would have been out of business year's ago, or their progam would have been scaled way back. So lets see come next Oct  where they stand. Remenber there are no FREE LUNCHES!

Shaver.  

Thanks for the cost breakdown.  It's probably the best description of what it really costs to put a team on the track that I have read.  Don't know who you are or what car you run, but this squares pretty well with what I have been able to observe with the two Knoxville regulars I follow closely.   One of them regularly runs in the top five, and the other generally in the last half of the A.  I don't know too many individuals or organizations that can throw that kind of money away and from what I can see, most sponsors don't pay any where near enough to finance it.  My hat's off to all of the owners out there who make this sport possible!  

Thanks.

I have two dumb questions; and let me first state I'm just a guy that goes to the stands (buys a ticket, buys a couple beers, buys a burger, buys a tshirt, etc).  Is $14k for a 410 rebuild a deal or not, (I wasn't sure by the way FRC asked)?  Do they really need to be rebuilt every 12.5 shows or approx. $900 a night avg?