Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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I dont want to start another Nascar hate thread or sound like Mr R Altman but with so many people being turned off by the current Nascar format and racing, 1.5 mile single file snoozefests, the Chase, the questionable officiating etc etc dirt racing should see this as an opportunity to pick up a lot of new fans that are sick of the Nascar B.S.

Most people who hate the chase are the real race fans, the hardcore ones, they know their stuff and know the current format is cheap, fake WWE wrestling styled and the racing has become dull for the majority of races.

These people still want and need their racing fix so we need to get dirt track racing out there in front of them. The time to get promoting for next season is now while the fans are pissed off at Nascar and looking for something else.

Eldora has the truck race but there needs to be more done, every dirt track series needs to be getting their racing out there for people to see and see what they have been missing.

Its hard to do but I think series need to be spending $$$ on Facebook sponsored ads, Newspaper, Radio etc etc to get events out to more people. Sometimes its the gimicks that get people into the stands like Fireworks displays or Demolition derbies but if you can run a slick racing show as well as the gimick event with a top series like WoO, Lucas Oil Late Models those people who might only show up for the fireworks might suddenly become race fans like the rest of us and spend more $$$ at future events. For example a local track where I live bought radio ad time and the radio DJ mentioned their fireworks race night at least 3 times a day in the week leading up to the event and you know what, the track had 8000 people there on race night and had to turn people away they couldnt fit any more people through the gates.

The article with "50 ideas every dirt track promotor should try" is an excellent place to get more ideas and some of them wont cost a promotor anything other than some time and effort. I think a key part is when running a promotion or gimick night make sure you have a really good field of exciting cars, bombers and hobby classes just dont hold peoples attention like Sprintcars or Late Models.  

My point is now is the time to get advertising/ promoting/ do car displays in public places and take advantage of the Nascar mess while fans are looking at other options for spending their time and money.

I'm not a fan of gimmicks at a race track. Not one bit. But that said, we do have to maybe put up with a little bit of the bullshit to get new people interested. I think just promoting the racing itself a little better than what 90% of promoters do would improve attendance greatly. There isn't much true promoting going on in our sport anymore. Hell something as simple as putting out flyers at local businesses is something you rarely see in Central Pa anymore. I see flyers for all kinds of stuff like caves and other tourist traps but rarely ever for a dirt track. Throwing in a few gimmicks can work but there is a real fine line there. If you go overboard with it, you then piss off the hardcore fans and no track can afford to do that because its the people like us who show up at Lincoln in February to freeze our asses off with snow still on the ground who are the true backbone of the fan base but like you said, if its only once in awhile and its done efficiently, I don't see a problem with it. By the way, you don't at all sound like Altman. You actually made a good post with valid points and actually laid out your ideas using details and not just generalized bullshit. Good post.

+1

This is a hard thing to accomplish since most can't even keep there intermission under 15 min....... That should be the first thing metioned in every little seminar at RPM/PRI 

I can see what the writer is saying but I'm skeptical about transferring NASCAR fans to Dirt Track fans.

There is a lot of emotion at the moment and a lot of people saying a lot of things. Reality is come February a lot of it will be forgotten and those people will be tuning into the Daytona 500 and subsequently every other NASCAR race. NASCAR has been steadily dropping fans for years, have we seen crowds correspondingly increase at dit tracks? If not then why would this latest development result in increased dirt attendances?

The likes of Fireworks, Demolition Derbies, Monster Trucks etc are great for attracting the once a year fans but you wouldn't use them to try and convert NASCAR fans. Fans who go to the races to watch the races couldn't care less about that sort of stuff.

As I see it the biggest problem is the lack of a nationwide televised dirt track series. Following the NASCAR is so easy, turn on the television and find the right channel. Even here in New Zealand it's easier to follow NASCAR than it is to follow any of our dirt series. By comparison following the Outlaws (or any other dirt series for that matter) is hard work unless you want to fork out for the livestream coverage race after race.

I agree with percynz.  Imagine you area fan looking to get into sprint car racing. You hear how great the world of outlaws are. You see they are coming to town.  You decide to take in the race. you get there and you know nothing about the drivers. You might spend the entire time at the track and not even know half the guys in the race. How much fun is that going to be?

We all love dirt track racing so we spend hours, probably too much time researching and or watching it. We look up results, listen or watch on the Internet when we can't attend, we go when we can. We know each and every driver, their accomplishments, etc. Someone getting into the sport for the first time isn't going to do that.

I haven't watched a nascar race in a long time. I can still tell you who the drivers are and who wins every week. It is all over TV and the Internet. Media and television deals are what make nascar what it is.  I'm not sure dirt track racing will ever get enough coverage to replace nascar. There are way too many variables. 

Dirt track racing is the best. It will gain fans who go and get hooked as we all did. However I just don't think it is ever going to gain main stream success. Maybe that's ok. 

Hopefully that doesn't come off as a bunch of rambling. It sounded better in my head.

Good points made here , now is the time to promote dirt track racing , and promoters need to work together here in Pa and they are to some extent . But now is the time to improve what we have real excitement not boredom out there. Please sirs don't compare me to anyone or not making points or boring you , if you don't like my opinions don't read them , or maybe I am too honest for some of you . But the bottom line is we have a great product and we need to do more with it . NASCAR NEEDS TO  CHANGE THERE FORMAT AND MORE .

could it be that comparing sprint car racing to Nascar racing is not apples to apples. Completely opposite in the format of qualifying & distance of main events. U r either a race fan or not. How hard core of a fan is a matter of being able to see through the Barnum & Bailey effect of promotion. Nascar has lived by that code for years & will only alienate true hard core fans by doing so. Stick to your local bull rings & be thankful that most are still able to operate & provide us with the real true racing that some of the clowns in Nascar will never understand..

That's exactly what I do. In fact, I'm a bit shocked that NASCAR gets talked about so much on a sprint car forum. All of us here know what real racing is so why even give the NASCAR bullshit the time of day? If you like it, that's fine but usually when a NASCAR topic comes up on this board, its all negative. I know I don't have one good thing to say about it and neither does most anyone else in this forum because we've all been exposed to real racing with real race cars so naturally, since we all know better, NASCAR is literally a pathetic joke to us and not even a funny one. I concur with what many others have said, stop paying attention to this stupid shit that NASCAR calls "racing" and continue to support your local dirt track.

One problem is no TV coverage at all.  People flick thru channels and it would be nice if they landed on A SPRINT CAR RACE.  iT IS ODD THAT MY CABLE tv HAS HAD LAWN MOWER RACES ON.  tHEY HAD 20 LAP FEATURES WITH JUST 4 CARS IN THE CLASS.  The big feature had 6 lawn mowers in it.  And we can not get anything on TV.  Also lets face the facts,  most people only think of an auto as a way to get to work or grocery store.  The age of people in the grandstands is getting older and older.  I am 76 and started going to races when I was 7.  Go to a hot rod show, most of the owners are 60-70-80 yrs old.  TNN was great, they would have maybe 20 sprint and midgets on a year live.  They got an offers to sell TNN and it was sold for more money than they could ever make in racing shows.  Look at NHRA team owners in top classes, most are old and who will fill thier place when they retire?  I hope someone has a solution, but how do you get young adults to go to a sprint car race when they do not give a hoot for the automobile other than driving to grocery store.

Lots of good points and discussion. Fixxxer this isnt a thread about how Nascar sucks, its about how Dirt track racing should be taking advantage of Nascar sucking to gain new fans and expose them to real racing, then turning that once a year fan into a 3 - 5 race night a year fan and beyond.

Definetely Nascar and Sprintcar racing are not comparable apples to apples but that isnt the point right now, just like Nascar at the very beginning, it takes years and years to build up a bigger fan base and its 100 times more difficult to do now than it was in the 40s, 50s & 60s because there is so much more competition for a persons limited entertainment dollars. Series need to recognise that it takes a long term view to build a large and loyal fanbase. Its far easier to say Dirt track racing will always be outside the mainstream and carry on with the same old same old but we need to challenge that thinking to compete with all the other entertainment options out there.

Percy makes good points and yes most people will jump back on the Nascar wagon next season. Im saying that there is a large amount of people who are pissed off at Nascar and if dirt tracks/series can put their product in front of those people right now and start building up to February events in Florida they may think "you know what, that looks a hell of a lot better than 4 hours of follow the leader racing and fake debris cautions".

Part of that is having those Series put their racing out there for people to follow the whole season. Webiste Race reports/race previews/news stories etc are ok for the hardcore fan but no casual fan is going to read a 1000 - 2000 word essay about an event or even search online for the series name. There should be reasonably short video highlights for every event, quick-time lap, heat race highlights, main event highlights and short driver interviews at the end with a quick promo for the next event on the schedule. How to get the videos out there is below.

If you cant cover every event then a weekly summary of the weeks racing would still work well. It wasnt long ago that the world racing group used to do a weekly highlights video that combined Sprints, Late models and Big Block Mod events around the country which I thought was excellent.

Eldora and other big tracks post short 30sec ads on their Facebook for upcoming big events, thats great but only reaches people who already 'like' or subscribe to their pages, these should be on local TV stations and radio, flyers were mentioned above as well, thatll work too, its all exposure and getting dirt track racing out there. TV and radio may be too expensive for most series, thats ok, flyers, Facebook sponsored ads, Facebook events, race car displays in nearby cities are all affordable for the average series/promotor. Schools are a great place to have car displays for obvious reasons but a display should also have handouts and schedules for when the big races series are close to that area so a kid can take the flyer home and say "mum and dad this race is only an hour away! Can we go?"

Once at the track people need to see how to follow a series for the whole season. Banners and informed commentators all help with this by giving the Facebook page details, website, series schedule, current points standings, who the hot drivers are, any girl racers in the field to cheer for. Intermission should be filled with driver interviews, fan give aways, auto graph signing sessions etc, all taking place on the front straight. All of that info and promotion helps build and engage a fan while they sit in the stands to turn them from a once a season attendee to a 3 - 5 attendee and maybe more often.

Bingo!

Let me see if I understand this.  Twelve or maybe 15 years ago (memory fades) all we read and heard about was how NASCAR was getting involved in dirt track racing and was going to take it to the next level.  We were encouraged by the little bit of TV coverage we had at the time and thought we had a bright future.  Now flip the clock ahead, NASCAR for various reasons is losing long time fans and that is a great opportunity for dirt track racing?  Kind of seems odd that when NASCAR was on the way up we were told we had an opportunity and now that it's popularity has declined we'd think the same thing.

I've been going to these races since 1960 and outside of the Knoxville Nationals and a couple big Eldora races I have never seen the kinds of crowds I saw at the State Fair in the early 60's.  It was walk in Fairgoer traffic to watch IMCA Sprints on a daytime track back then and the grandstand was packed.  If memory serves me the capacity was around 17,000 so that is a big crowd that any dirt track promoter would love to have today.  17,000 is getting up there where it's comparable to the capacity of an NHL arena so that's a lot of people.  Today a lot of races I go to have maybe a couple thousand people max.  There are bigger crowds for the Outlaws and some of the big Late Model races but for the most part crowds are soft for weekly racing.

I like dirt track racing, mostly Sprints but Late Models too and to some extend USMTS type Modifieds can be good.  Nevertheless, in the past 15 years I've seen a decline in the number of race cars and the size of the crowds.  During that time I didn't just sit there and do nothing, I wrote for a racing paper for sixteen years and did some magazine articles so I can't be accused of sitting back and doing nothing.  Nevertheless, I think the old saying "it is what it is" can be applied to dirt racing.  Ask my wife about the facilities, she won't go within 50 miles of a dirt track because in her words "everything is icky".  I have tried and tried to coax friends and relatives to races with limited success, young people just aren't into cars like they used to be. 

There are some good things happening with racing and I'm not saying to quit trying but I have put everything I have into coaxing people to the tracks for years and I think it made me kind of jaded.  Hell, I even helped out with a local television show one year on a broadcast channel (not cable but over the air) that played out in a Metro area of three million.  One promoter confided in me after helping to sponsor the dirt track segment for the season that they kept close track of the numbers and it didn't result in an increase in attendance. 

LIke I said, I'm not suggesting that if anyone is young and all full of excitement about it that they should give up.  I'm just saying that I swam an uphill battle for years in an effort to help promote the sport and at the local level it pretty much amounted to volunteer work.  I was disappointed in the lack of results based on my experience and have since backed off from all the work as age and circumstances have changed. 

Stan Meissner

" you get there and you know nothing about the drivers. You might spend the entire time at the track and not even know half the guys in the race. How much fun is that going to be?"

Well I went thru that about 5 years ago, but already liked dirt track from my teens, 1960s. Used to go see the jalopies & modified (coupes) at Eastside Speedway in Waynesboro, Virginia. It was great. We moved up North in 1966, I went to 2 races on pavement, totally lost interest. Fast forward 40+ years... heard about sprint cars in Central Pa. was driving thru there, went to a race (small time, Clinton County, Pa.) & as soon as those 24 900 HP beasts accelerated out of Turn 1, I was hooked again. Didn't know any of the drivers, format, anything. It was the spectacle, energy rush, etc. (smell of methanol?) From that point it was easy to learn what was going on, now I travel for several big races every year.

I actually used to like NASCAR too, in the Fireball Roberrts era, when cars were actually based on vehicles you could buy & drive, therefore Ford fans, Chevy fans, etc. Who drives a "NASCAR"???? No interest whatsoever any more, except.... (see next post...)

I have no interest in NASCAR either, but always try to see how Kyle Larson is doing. Why? Cause I've seen him kick ass in sprint cars, want him to do well, plus the $$$ he invests in his sprint team. Which brings up the scary question, can Smoke afford to sponsor a team after he retires from NASCAR? Can WoO survive without NASCAR cash?

oops, I meant "Turn 4"

This thread got me thinking about the gimmicks in NASCAR and made me think of the Nationals a few years back.  Anybody remember "Porkchop" from the Nationals about 5 or 6 years ago?  Is that dirt track racing's version of DW? 

 If enough NASCAR fans go to dirt races then we won't need seats anymore as everyone will be standing the whole time.

As usual Stan, you say it better than anyone else possibly could. I wish you'd make a trip to Central Pa someday. You're the kinda guy I like to shoot the shit with and do a little bench racing. I'm a little more than half your age but I remember when I was a kid, crowds were far better for weekly programs. 17,000 at a fair race back in the 60's is pretty incredible. I've noticed from videos and old pics that all the races back then seemed to draw bigger crowds. I think you're right about young people not being as interested in cars and I'll elaborate even further upon your observation. Young people today just aren't as interested in general. Not in cars, not fishing, not sports, not anything. He's young people may attend baseball games but how often do you actually see them sitting there watching the game? It's pretty rare. It's more of a social gathering than anything else. I think that has a lot to do with why races such as the National Open are still heavily attended. It's all about the party. They really don't give 2 shits about the racing itself. Yeah they hoot and holler for the Posse guys but the number 1 reason they're there, is the party. That seems to be all young people these days care to actually go and DO. Any other time, they're glued to their smartphone sifting through everyone else's business on Facebook and posting their own senseless business. If anyone is looking for me on Facebook, keep looking. You won't find me. I don't give dead moose's last shit what you had for lunch or who you're hanging out with tonite nor do I wanna see your stupid duck lipped selfies. But back on point, young people just don't care to do things of actual substance like they used to and I think we're seeing that reflected heavily by the crowds (or lack thereof) at our local tracks. I wish I had the answer but I think you nailed it when you said "it is what it is." 

Myself being relatively new to the sport of dirt racing, 12 years or so, I have seen fans come and go. In my part of the country (Texas) it's not very easy to be a dedicated supporter of multiple tracks, the closest track to me is well over 75 miles away and the next after that would be another 40 or so miles. For you guys up North, how many different tracks can you hit up in a 75 mile radius? And of those tracks what's the level of competition on any given race night? The closest track to me, its main attraction would be the ASCS National tour and then the ASCS Gulf South series. But you can bet your wife's sweet &#% when the WoO come to Texas we make the 5 hour drive to see those guys! I would do the same for the NSL and the All Star's, but how do we get those guys to come down South? There's money here, because there are fans here. I saw license plates in the parking fields, not lots, fields, from not just Texas but, Oklahoma, Arkansas and Louisiana.

We don't need more gimmicks to promote the sport to build fan base, we need these tours to hit more states! Exposure is the key. The last WoO race at the Devils Bowl was packed! Grand stands and pits!! Not because it was the WoO, it was because of the level of talent making up the field and most of all the love for the sport! I would be willing to bet my last dollar 85% of the fans there were NASCAR fans, just getting their fix of high speed action and the roar of the motors. We have NASCAR fans, a lot of them, not all of them and nor do we want them. Because then our sport would end up just like NASCAR. Them we would be writing about remembering the good ole days of dirt racing before it became a commercialized black hole.

 I'm all for more fans to support the sport we love and pump money into it Nationwide! That's what it takes to keep the gates open. The promoters have an uphill battle to fill the stands and without true talent coming through the pit gates it's next to impossible. For you guys up North, you don't know how good you have it ....! lol