Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

The Grove still hasn't made the list yet... 10 Worst Sports Riots in History

To my knowledge Schatz has never had his rental car touched by a single roll of toilet paper or grease marker much less flipped over. To me we are pretty tame in the big scheme of things.

I am by no means an elegant writer, or much of a story teller. But, I wanted to share my experience going to both nights of the Summer Nationals at Williams Grove this past weekend.

            I think a little bit of background information will help explain why I wanted to write this story. Like everyone else on this forum, I love sprint car racing. I have been going to races as long as I can remember. The biggest reason I wanted to visit Williams Grove is that my family and I have a personal connection to the track. My grandfather, Gays Biro, raced there during his career. Midgets, Sprint cars, even the occasional Dirt Champ car ride. He never won a race there, as far as I know. (cue Posse superiority, more on that later). What makes the connection personal is that he died there. 1982 he was a participant in the Williams Grove Old Timers. My grandfather was there with my grandmother and his two antique cars, a 1930’s homemade sprint car, and a 1947 Kurtis Offy midget. Long story short, a radius rod bolt broke on the midget, resulting in the now free rod impaling into the track in front of the left rear wheel, and flipping the car over. As most of you know, those cars lack roll cages, 5 point seat belts and other “modern” safety features. He insisted on driving a car like he raced, no “sissy” roll cage or hoops. He passed away at Holy Spirit Hospital shortly after arrival.

            With that being said, I don’t view myself as an “outlaw” fan, or a “posse” fan. I just love sprint cars. My friend Dan has never been to a race at the Grove, so I invited him to go, and share in the costs from traveling from the Akron Ohio area. The drive across the turnpike was uneventful, arriving at our hotel and relaxing for a little while before going to the track. Upon arriving to the Grove, I think what my buddy said was “this place is hillbilly as Fu&%”. I kind of bit my tongue. I knew than to judge the place based on what kind of walls are used to keep people from sneaking in. (but, seriously, those plain steel walls make it look like a combination junkyard/football stadium). We parked, paid for our pit passes outside of turn one, and walked inside. First looking at the track, well, it looks like a dirt track. It seemed like the straights went on forever and the turns seemed way too tight and short. In all, my first impression was one of both sadness and joy. I was happy that I was able to see a race here, and sad that both my grandfather and father were not here to enjoy it with me.

            We walked around, took pictures, and climbed the bridge up and down a few times, pretty much taking the place in. We sat in the bleachers closest to turn 4, as high up as we could. Now, for the racing. I’ve been to enough sprint car races to know that heat races seldom involve a great deal of passing or action. Much less on a bigger track. So, with that being said the heat races were pretty boring. It was after the heat races were over I began to notice something. I said I’m from the Akron Ohio area. I did not, prior to Friday’s races, own any posse racing shirts. So, I wore a Paul McMahan shirt. I didn’t think much of this, racing is racing right? Surely no one will care I don’t have a Stevie Smith, Fred Rahmer, Lynn Paxton, Smokey Snellbaker shirt on right? I was wrong. Oh so Wrong. It started after the dash was over. We were walking in the infield, looking at stuff to buy. Some kids were throwing a football, it landed near me. I threw it to the one young lady brave enough to play with a group of little boys. The closest little boy, MAYBE age 10, said “hey! You’re a god damn outlaw fan”. I think I laughed. I’m not sure; I was kind of blown away by the fact that a kid said that. Well, anyway, we moved on walking back to our seats. It was at this point that about every 5^th person I walked by made some kind of comment to me. Some were just the simple “POSSE RULES!”. Some I probably shouldn’t type on here. I’m guessing it was the never ending supply of booze that fueled this “us against the world” mindset. I guess you can say I was shocked. I have never once seen even the most diehard fans at Attica or Fremont or Eldora or Sharon or MERCER say these things. But hey, I guess they just love their locals. Anyway, Greg Hodnett flips, they blame….yup….Paul McMahan. I might as well have been wearing an Obama shirt in the stands. Danny Dietrich wins in an honestly good entertaining race. I do enjoy seeing locals win big races, especially if they pass, and run away from,. Donny Schatz. After the races, we go into the pits. I have an idea, I need some Camo, a posse shirt. What better than the guy who just won? Besides, I didn’t like the Stevie Smith shirts that were for sale. We went to Danny’s trailer, and bought a shift. After which, I said congrats to Danny and his crew. No one thanked me. No one thanked me for buying a shirt. Walking back to the car, I was taunted by at least a dozen people, the highlight of which was a woman screaming in my face “ITS ALL ABOUT THE POSSE!!!!”. I didn’t know if she was referring to the group of central PA sprint car drivers, or in her PBR fuel rage, telling me how I should be all about her mispronounced girl parts. Either way I was uncomfortable.

            Anyway, Saturday we went to the Eastern Museum of Motor Racing, one of the main reasons for this trip. Long story short, my grandfather has a few pictures and his helmet that he was wearing the day he died on display. The staff at the Museum was by far the kindest and most helpful people I encountered this entire weekend. They even allowed me to take a picture holding the helmet. Stopping there truly made the trip worth it. Saturday I was ready, Danny Dietrich shirt on, I was a local now. No one knew that it a posse driver didn’t win I wasn’t going to go burn down a barn or whatever. In my opinion, the racing Saturday was not that entertaining. I never made it to beer hill. If the “regular” fans were that obnoxious I think watching from that part of the track would have been a mistake. To be honest, I left a little disappointed. The racing wasn’t anything to write about (see what I did there?). The crowd detracted from having a good time. The bathrooms were old and outdated. The food is massively overpriced. The grandstands need updated, and frankly having almost half of the seating reserved, is ridiculous. I will say unlike some Ohio tracks it wasn’t so dusty that you can’t see the race. I guess what I asking for here, is what do the so called die hard posse fans bragging about? Yes, you have a deep, talented well funded group of drivers and teams that can beat the best of the best in your own back yard. But, you are far from having the best track, or tracks (Lincoln and Port Royal are next on the list to visit) in the country. I hate to break it to you; Eldora is much, much, much nicer track. It was nicer long before Tony Stewart owned it. In closing, I just wanted to write this story on my experience at the grove. Will I go back? Hell yes. I did have fun. But, it seems that half of the comments on here are debates on what makes central PA the center of our sprint car universe. I wanted to give a look through SOBER, unbiased eyes and ears. Any comments are welcome. Just keep it clean, I heard enough foul language this past weekend. Thanks for reading.  

As you know, I live in Pa. I attend 50+ races here a year and I have to say, you nailed it. Obviously, not all of us are that way (hopefully I'm a good example of that) but there are a lot of them. The thing about Rahmer is something that has bugged the hell out of me since I was kid. They'd boo him a lot like they do Schatz now yet when he'd beat the Outlaws, you heard nothing but cheers. Some of you guys can defend the Posse attitude all you want but the fact is, we have the reputation that we have for good reason. People didn't just wake up one day and decide and flip a coin to decide which region they were going to bash, they do it because of what they see and what they hear. One thing I learned in life is that the loudest person in the room is ALWAYS going to be the dumbest and the most arrogant and unfortunately, that's what has happened in this case. The loudest, most obnoxious people are also the most visible and the ones most likely to make an impression on outsiders. No one remembers the guy sitting 3 rows back wearing a Don Kreitz Jr. shirt who just kept to himself and didn't act like an asshole but people will remember the drunk wearing a Don Kreitz Jr. shirt yelling “Schatz is an asshole" at the top of his lungs. As far as telling people to stay home, that's just stupid. How big would Knoxville be if the nationals were only attended by locals? We do need people from other areas here if we want events such as the National Open to grow and instead of treating them like shit and telling them to stay home if they don't like it, welcome them with open arms and show them the side of central Pa that they don't see because they're distracted by the screaming drunk fools. There are a lot of good people here, unfortunately, they're just a silent majority and the vocal minority is what our reputation has been based off of.

lol....thats the best you can say? "hey, we  aren't that bad, no one was murdered!" Is there something in the water supply in that area that kills brain cells?

Or you are simply a poster child for the pussification of America

The Top Five Fights in NASCAR History

Ive seen races all over the country and what goes on at WG is mild compared to some of the stuff that ive seen at the Nationals or world finals or at Eldora.

Also , the story reads like pure science fiction. This guy is either the most self conscious person in the world with hyper sensitive hearing or the majority of this shit is made up in his head. Never seen any type of behavior like this after attending WG for decades.

Think of me what you want. Like I said, I don't care. I will be back to the grove for a race. I won't let some idiots ruin a good time. I'm not self conscious or timid, I just wanted to have a fun, personal experience at a race track where a family member died. Instead the place that I built up in my head as almost a mystical perfection of racing turned out to be a place where I really felt unwelcome. My grandfather raced and died there. DIED!!! How dare some of you retards think I would make this up. It's amazing really. A dozen or so people ruined a place that in my mind I had built into a shrine. Say whatever you want now about me. I said what I wanted too. To the people who apologized for the bad experience, thank you.

Think of me what you want. Like I said, I don't care. I will be back to the grove for a race. I won't let some idiots ruin a good time. I'm not self conscious or timid, I just wanted to have a fun, personal experience at a race track where a family member died. Instead the place that I built up in my head as almost a mystical perfection of racing turned out to be a place where I really felt unwelcome. My grandfather raced and died there. DIED!!! How dare some of you retards think I would make this up. It's amazing really. A dozen or so people ruined a place that in my mind I had built into a shrine. Say whatever you want now about me. I said what I wanted too. To the people who apologized for the bad experience, thank you.

My post wasn't directed at you.  It was directed at those that already have a negative opinion of PA fans and used your story to justify labeling most everyone from PA as rednecks, inbred, or any other "positive" terms, without first acknowledging that this type of behavior, while rare, goes on at all tracks.  I think you've seen both sides of the PA fan coin in this thread alone.  Rational and..... well not so much.  Like I said before, have fun when you return, and hopefully its a better trip then this last one was. 

This is what the thread has become.