Forum: Oklahomatidbits.com General Forum (go)
Moderators:  /  David Smith Jr

the rumor in the grape vine i keep hearing is they're gonna send us back about 15 years on the rules and from the sources i hear it from they seem to be very adamant about it. i know somethings gotta be done cause i only counted i believe 14 factories last night i also heard the restrictor plate talk come up again. In my own personal opinion I dont believe anything will change regardless of what rule changes are made unless they police the rules and do it on a consitant basis. I'd like to hear some former FS drivers opinions on this if they're out there in cyber space maybe why they dont race anymore cause I know all those cars we had 7-10 years ago which was around 40+ a night just didnt disappear into thin air!!

Everyone's main gripe is "we have spent all of this money buyin this stuff it wouldnt be right to not let us use it " well somethin has to be done!! One of my ideas is the rules say scuff tires lets run scuff tires Lets get Lanny to buy 400 tires or so stamp em keep them under the stage and make everyone run his tires . U dont have that stamp your dq'ed no questions asked . I can hook him up with a guy who will sell him all the tires he can handle for 5-7 bucks a piece and the goin price is 20-25 so he can even make a good profit at it for his time and trouble.

#2 Put us back on stock rocker arms that does away with all the monster camshafts and high dollar valve springs .

#3 Crate engines u can buy a limited mod engine intake to oilpan for under 2,000 bucks everyone out there has that in their engines . Work a deal out with an engine supplier who can meet our demands and seal the engines ...

Thats just a couple of the ideas I have heard or thought of . there will be a rules meeting soon after the winternationals so we need input !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

your factory stock represenative Shawn Jorski

winners dont cry when they lose , they go back to the 
drawing board and come back for round 2 !

i think everyone needs to read the newest circle track magazine there's a article in it about building a imca late model motor for X amount of dollars i think but the first sentence of the article made a lot of sense to me. it said the reason IMCA has been so succesful is not because of all the rules thats say you can or can not do this it is succesful based on its motor claim rule and it says ya you can spend a bunch of money on a motor but on any given night you might have that motor bought from ya. if i remember right our car count has gradually dwindled down every year since the motor claim went out the window and i know there is people opposed to the motor claim and i think it was like 250 bucks and swap ya thats a bit cheap so i say bring back the claim perhaps with a larger $ amount involved. i know it probably wont happen and i think im doing more than just beatin a dead horse more like a decomposed horse by saying we need the claim back!

"I'd like to hear some former FS drivers opinions on this if they're out there in cyber space maybe why they dont race anymore"

This is something that has happened many times before. One example is the 6 cylinder modifieds. They started out affordable and ended with $12,000 V6 engines and cars that were exactly like the supers. It happened every year. The top guys always want to go faster and the guys who can't afford the more expensive stuff don't complain loud enough.

In 78 Street Stocks were stock. Hydraulic cams that had to have factory lift, 7 inch tires, etc. By 85 or so they were Super Stocks. You were able to shorten a long chassis and hang Metric tin on it. In 89 They were moved to the half and called Pro Stocks. Factory Stocks were brought in with a $400 claim on the whole car. Gradually the rules were relaxed every year and now we have real race cars again. The rules changes that hurt the most are

1. Removing the $400 engine claim. I lost an engine to claim and it hurt but without the claim the engines I was running wouldn't have been competitive. If you lose a $1500 engine for $400, isn't that better than having to run $4000 engines to be competitive? Besides, that's kinda the ultimate compliment. If you aren't running fast, they won't buy your motor.

2. Allowing aftermarket bodies.

3. Lowering the weight limit. I think this hurt beginners the most. At 3500 lbs with a GM intermediate, there is very little you need to do to the car to make it handle.

4. Other things like dual master cylinders, 9 inch Ford rear ends, etc.

You now have a "Skin" car, not a Factory Stock. That doesn't mean they are bad race cars. It just means that not only are they more expensive, they take more knowledge to build and run, hurting newbies.

In any "affordable" class, you have guys starting out, guys quitting, and guys moving on every year. When you have more of the last two and less of the first, car counts dwindle (duh). When noobs can't be even a little competitive, they go away.

My advice? First off, I don't have a dog in this hunt so take it for what it's worth. But it looks to me like Factory and Pro should be combined for the guys who want to go fast. Then bring in a Pure Stock class. In 10 years you will have the same problem, but..............

You know I have read these concerns before on here. (Check the Achieves) Dirtrack 29 (crewed for mdspivey in those days) brought the claimer rule up before. Alot of people pounded him for that. I see he doesn't race much anymore. I have talk to him (Dirtrack 29) rescently. He said he remembers many of the rule meetings, when he tried to stop the rules from being changed. Gee may be we should have. The researched says the SFS should go to the IMCA rules for the factory stock. Doesn't have to be a sanctioning racing just apply the rules. MDSPIVEY is correct. The big money has dictated in the past. Maybe it's our (the little people with a job(just over broke) turn to dictate what needs to happen. Jorski73 when's that rule meeting? I'll be there. I suggest all you other's who want race be there.

one thing about nine inch fords look no broken axles in a long time, i can see them griping about the mini cltches,bushings ,and the motors especially the motors. My opinion their problem is in the heads u have to spend a ton on heads to run i hav run three different intakes this year and i cant tell any different when i won in 2005 i had a 4 cut valvepiston speed pros L2256 a set that is only 250 dollars not 500 now on the rods i will say it right

now ilike scat rods a set of them r only 200 try gettin a set x rods have them resized and new rod bolts ur at 200 any way plus a new rod is insurance 4 longevity as for 57 and 6 inch they say on the side 57 and 60 that right there spells it out for the tech man we need a tech man that knows what he is lookin at stock bone engines is what we need then it depends on set up the vacuum thing there is ways around it a lift rule well that is the tech guy thing and i think shawn idea about stock rockers is a good start but as always the speedway will do what they want

Rule changes. What drivers spoke so loud in the past about "opening" the rules up to what they are today? Hopefully they will quite down so those particular drivers can show their skill in driving not how deep their pockets are. I'm glad to hear that there is gonna be some discusion about it soon. I applaud that decision for sure. Are there any F/S drivers that want to see the rules changed?

I see that Jorski is for it. Good for you man.

How much would could a wouldchuck chuck if a 
wouldchuck could chuck would

Mike Spivey is a HERO of mine.

Mike, please tell these kids where they are going.

As a long time racer, I have seen rules come and I have seen rules go. Racing was fun back in the 80's, when we did not have to spend a lot of money. As far as the motor claim there is a bunch of people that won't claim motors out of a few certain cars, because they are afraid of getting their ass whupped. The only way around the motor claim is win 2 features, pull that car on the stage, put the rest of the field in a hat and draw out the number. Ask that person does he want to swap motors, if not draw another number. If a person takes the deal and gets their ass whupped, then kick the driver, & pit crew out for the season, (the one getting his motor claimed.) Make all rules apply to everyone, even if you have an official in your pocket. When they have the rules meeting, stay all night if you have to so the rules will get changed. Make racing fun and affordable again. Remember racing in OKC is not NASCAR, it is just a hobby.

Joe Buntin

314-4295

I thought this was a pretty good way of keeping the motor cost down, but there is one thing, all the ones with high dollar motors, would start running 3 through 5 every week.  So to keep this from happening, here is another way----put top 5 in the hat every other week, and draw out who loses his motor. Then have a fan draw a number out of the pot, so that the officials won't be tempted to take a pay off and keep their friends from losing their motor. This keeps everybody honest. The class would be more competitive, the same cars would not be up front every week.  The fans would get more enjoyment and the car count would go up.  We don't blame the ones wanting to go fast, just move up to pro stock.

Joe Buntin

Now this engine and claimer rule would be best at SFS.

ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS: Any American make engine allowed. Steel heads, block and oil pan only. OEM passenger vehicle production block only. No GM Bowtie, Ford SVO or Chrysler W blocks. GM approved block numbers are: 3892657, 3914678, 3932388, 3932386, 3956618, 3970000, 3970006, 3970010, 3970014, 10066033, 10066036, 14010207, 14010209, 14010287, 14016376, 14016379, 10054727, 14088528, 14088548, 14088552, 14093638, 14101148. Stroke must match block. No 400 or larger cubic inch parts allowed. Maximum 361 cubic inches (GM); 363 cubic inches (Ford); 370 cubic inches (Chrysler). Maximum compression ratio is 9.0 to 1, no tolerance. Compression ratio checked using Whistler and cubic inches checked using pump, ¬OR by visual inspection, such as part/casting numbers and flat top or dish pistons (track option which method is used). Flat top or dish pistons only, no gas ported pistons. Cylinder heads must be unaltered approved OEM and minimum 76 cc combustion chamber. GM approved head numbers are: 14079267, 3986336, 3986339, 3986339X, 3986388, 3932441, 376445, 3928454, 3932454, 3876487, 3973487, 3973487X, 3973493, 3951598, 468642, 330862, 333882, 3998920, 3998991, 3998993, 3998997, 3970126; Ford - no after market or SVO heads; Chrysler - no after market or W-2 heads, 360 cubic inch heads only. No porting, polishing or alterations of any kind to heads or intake, disqualification and $250 fine if illegal. Must use unaltered OEM cast iron two barrel intake. No hi-rise or marine intake manifolds. Flat tappet cam/lifters only. No mushroom lifters. Cannot alter lifter bores. OEM non-roller rocker arms only. Studs may be pinned or use non-shouldered screw-in type. No stud girdles. Poly locks allowed. Unaltered OEM type harmonic balancer only. OEM type steel or aluminum water pumps only. ‘Wet’ sump oiling system only. Accumulator allowed, must be mounted under hood.

ENGINE CLAIM: Refer to SFS 2008 Official Rule Book for claim eligibility requirements.
(A) $325 cash claim on engine, $25 of this goes to wrecker for pulling engine.
(B) Claim does not include - 1. flywheel, 2. clutch, 3. pressure plate, 4. bellhousing, 5. breathers, 6. carburetor, 7. starter, 8. motor mounts, 9. oil/temp. sending units, 10. fan and pulleys, 11. clutch ball, 12. clutch arm, 13. throw out bearing, 14. dip stick, 15. water pump, 16. fuel pump, rod and plate, 17. distributor, 18. plug wires, 19. water outlet and restrictor. 20. exhaust manifold and pipes.
NOTE: During engine claim, exhaust manifold must be pulled to inspect heads, and one spark plug must be removed to check flat top or dish pistons prior to transfer of engine to claiming driver. If, at this time, engine is found illegal, claimed driver is disqualified and suspended from all SFS events until such time as a $250 fine is paid, for first offense, second offense penalties will be $500 fine and/or suspension. Claimer then has option to accept or decline engine. If declined, claim is not charged against him/her.

Hello, Joe. Yes, racing was fun in the 80s. You, Beane, and South (among others) were the toughest competition. Too bad time marches on.

I agree the motor cost needs to be looked at. But I think the main problem that affects the car count is the car itself. The cars now are real race cars and they take some real knowledge to make run fast. That's great for guys who have raced for years or their families have run for years. But it isn't good for the class.

One of the problems with Factory Stock is that it is designed as an entry level class but many drivers (including me) never move up. For many of us, it is a competitive class that you don't have to mortgage everything you own to compete in. But the class has progressed to the point where it is really hard for noobs to come in and compete if they don't come from a family that has been racing forever. There really needs to be a lesser class that people can get into and be competitive without a ton of knowledge.

Of course the problem with that is that there are already too many classes. And I think Factory has gotten too close to Pro. There really isn't an answer that can make everyone happy but the car count needs to be more then 14.

And thanks, Uncle A

And congrats to Becker. What took you so long?

The whole deal is getten somebody that knows what they r lookin at and isnt parcial. When i tore down there was an official that was told to stand by me and not let me carry anything to my trailer. plus u will never get past money , money hides all, cast iron heads .com can make u anything u want, make it look how u want, to get past anything . okc12 i dont beleive i was one hollerin for all this stuff , iwas defending the rearend thing for the broken axles and for the fact try to find a stock rearend. i think the big big change is in the engine compartment.