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Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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Topic: FROM A FANS POINT OF VIEW - TIRES Email this topic to a friend | Subscribe to this TopicReport this Topic to Moderator
Page 1 of 1   of  13 replies
Mr Happy
MyWebsite
March 25, 2015 at 03:33:59 PM
Joined: 10/17/2007
Posts: 23
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Do we as fans have anything to worry about??
A few years ago, Hoosier had a really soft tire that seemingly destroyed racing because if you started outside the top 2 rows a driver had a very small chance to win. The tracks developed what appeared to be rubber down racing with no passing. As a fan, racing was REALLY bad!! In comes Goodyear! Goodyear developed a harder, more complex tire, and seemingly better racing followed. The last 2 years have been excellent!! Now I'm worried as a fan. This year. The SOFTER Hoosier was introduced, and from what I've seen, has produced follow the leader racing again. My question is......From a fans point of view..IS THE RACING GOING TO SUCK THIS YEAR! ????? We pay the bills!! Let me know what you think!! Please give me some positive news.

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buzz rightrear
March 25, 2015 at 04:43:57 PM
Joined: 09/12/2008
Posts: 2511
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Reply to:
Posted By: Mr Happy on March 25 2015 at 03:33:59 PM

 

Do we as fans have anything to worry about??
A few years ago, Hoosier had a really soft tire that seemingly destroyed racing because if you started outside the top 2 rows a driver had a very small chance to win. The tracks developed what appeared to be rubber down racing with no passing. As a fan, racing was REALLY bad!! In comes Goodyear! Goodyear developed a harder, more complex tire, and seemingly better racing followed. The last 2 years have been excellent!! Now I'm worried as a fan. This year. The SOFTER Hoosier was introduced, and from what I've seen, has produced follow the leader racing again. My question is......From a fans point of view..IS THE RACING GOING TO SUCK THIS YEAR! ????? We pay the bills!! Let me know what you think!! Please give me some positive news.

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From what i understand the soft hoosier is now harder than the soft goodyear was. It is harfer than the previous soft hoosier. The soft hoosier is now a 15 instead of a 12. There is really no medium as the hr15 is about the same in hardness but a little different compound dustier track conditions. The hard tire is the hoosier medium. The same tire ascs uses. Also from what i know the woo was involved in setting tire design requirements to some extent.

 

My opinion is you should be able to run any tire any time you want any brand any compound.

 


to indy and beyond!!

Peahead
March 25, 2015 at 04:47:45 PM
Joined: 02/02/2015
Posts: 31
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Mr Happy on March 25 2015 at 03:33:59 PM

 

Do we as fans have anything to worry about??
A few years ago, Hoosier had a really soft tire that seemingly destroyed racing because if you started outside the top 2 rows a driver had a very small chance to win. The tracks developed what appeared to be rubber down racing with no passing. As a fan, racing was REALLY bad!! In comes Goodyear! Goodyear developed a harder, more complex tire, and seemingly better racing followed. The last 2 years have been excellent!! Now I'm worried as a fan. This year. The SOFTER Hoosier was introduced, and from what I've seen, has produced follow the leader racing again. My question is......From a fans point of view..IS THE RACING GOING TO SUCK THIS YEAR! ????? We pay the bills!! Let me know what you think!! Please give me some positive news.

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I don't think it's right that so many tracks narrowed the tire choose to just one brand. I believe the racing community should be able to run whatever brand they wish unless of course all that is left is Hoosier.




jdfast
March 25, 2015 at 06:19:10 PM
Joined: 12/16/2004
Posts: 956
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From the racing on I saw on you tube, the woo races this year on the west coast have been really racy, with some still discussing who won Stockton, SHatz or Stewart.   Not sure it could be much better.

 

But yeah, soft tires with rubber down racing often sucks.  Hopefully this does not occur.



egras
March 25, 2015 at 06:58:09 PM
Joined: 08/16/2009
Posts: 3903
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: buzz rightrear on March 25 2015 at 04:43:57 PM

From what i understand the soft hoosier is now harder than the soft goodyear was. It is harfer than the previous soft hoosier. The soft hoosier is now a 15 instead of a 12. There is really no medium as the hr15 is about the same in hardness but a little different compound dustier track conditions. The hard tire is the hoosier medium. The same tire ascs uses. Also from what i know the woo was involved in setting tire design requirements to some extent.

 

My opinion is you should be able to run any tire any time you want any brand any compound.

 



I Agree-it would be better if they ran any tire, any brand, any compound.  

And, to keep the big teams from getting a tire advantage over the little guys?  Teams must run the same tires for the entire show.  If you change any tire, for any reason, you go to the back of the field.   I think this would create incredible racing throughout the night when teams are playing the traction vs. wear game all night long!  May see fast cars back up during the feature and cars from the back come forward. 



oswald
March 25, 2015 at 09:17:11 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1980
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A lot of rubber down racetracks are a result of track prep more than tires. We saw 1 rubber down track out west this spring and some great racing at another with the same tires. When I go anywhere but Knoxville I worry a lot more about track prep than I do about how soft a tire is allowed by that track/sanction.




raeccrash778
March 25, 2015 at 09:48:21 PM
Joined: 03/04/2007
Posts: 149
Reply

FACT: Hard Tires = More Rubber Down Tracks . Tire spins more and guess where it ends up ?

They brought hard tires and flat wings in to do 2 things (really 3 things)

1. Free the cars up and make them harder to drive. 

2. And the hopeless excuse they told everyone is that it would diminish the need for big money motors.

They failed badly on both counts. 

If I have a softer tire my car is hooked up and driving forward and so it doesn't spin, so less rubber being laid.

The real reason they changed the rules was to slow Schatz up after 4 WOO titles in a row.

There was a lot of very good WOO drivers begging for something to be done to slow him up. 

Last year he put some different shocks on and won a few races and they had them banned as well. Apparantly you can spend an infinate amount of money on your motors and multiple race teams but a few hundred dollars on a better shock isn't OK.



oswald
March 25, 2015 at 11:10:21 PM
Joined: 11/30/2004
Posts: 1980
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: raeccrash778 on March 25 2015 at 09:48:21 PM

FACT: Hard Tires = More Rubber Down Tracks . Tire spins more and guess where it ends up ?

They brought hard tires and flat wings in to do 2 things (really 3 things)

1. Free the cars up and make them harder to drive. 

2. And the hopeless excuse they told everyone is that it would diminish the need for big money motors.

They failed badly on both counts. 

If I have a softer tire my car is hooked up and driving forward and so it doesn't spin, so less rubber being laid.

The real reason they changed the rules was to slow Schatz up after 4 WOO titles in a row.

There was a lot of very good WOO drivers begging for something to be done to slow him up. 

Last year he put some different shocks on and won a few races and they had them banned as well. Apparantly you can spend an infinate amount of money on your motors and multiple race teams but a few hundred dollars on a better shock isn't OK.



The rubber does not come off a hard tire as easy as a soft tire. So it puts less rubber on the track. Look at the tires after a race. The harder compounds have more tread left than the softer ones. Why do drivers choose a harder tire on an abrasive track? Because the rubber will not wear off as fast. Less chance off blowing a tire or finishing the race on the chords.



dirtdevil
March 26, 2015 at 12:18:21 AM
Joined: 09/30/2005
Posts: 1387
Reply
Reply to:
Posted By: Mr Happy on March 25 2015 at 03:33:59 PM

 

Do we as fans have anything to worry about??
A few years ago, Hoosier had a really soft tire that seemingly destroyed racing because if you started outside the top 2 rows a driver had a very small chance to win. The tracks developed what appeared to be rubber down racing with no passing. As a fan, racing was REALLY bad!! In comes Goodyear! Goodyear developed a harder, more complex tire, and seemingly better racing followed. The last 2 years have been excellent!! Now I'm worried as a fan. This year. The SOFTER Hoosier was introduced, and from what I've seen, has produced follow the leader racing again. My question is......From a fans point of view..IS THE RACING GOING TO SUCK THIS YEAR! ????? We pay the bills!! Let me know what you think!! Please give me some positive news.

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Im not sure why some fans think they pay the bills? truth be known if the fans directly funded the additions of tethers,tires,fuel, ect they would quit buying tickets, as a casual fan I understand thier dissapointment a race gets locked down and uneventfull, long gone are the days of one team having something better than the others, it is so competitive nowdays,  the competition buys and utilizes the same pieces as the #1 qualifier to the 24th starting position, as a fan I see it this way, just attend and hopefully a great race breaks out, maybe your chances are greater different areas you attend? (track size level of competition ect)  as a part time driver i attend the same amount of races I may fall short of perfoming well in, but heck I still keep going, its the one night that everything falls in place you keep digging for more, SO thus my observation of tires, sure lockdown shows become less than desireable to fans, as a driver finding the traction before your competitors and conserving your tires becomes part of the stradegy, most fans dont understand just how short a lap the winning car was from going from 1st to 15th with a flat, its a stradegy inside of a race, maybe not the passing show you feel your deservant of, to sum it up, ther eis too many vunerables to colaberate a show that satisfies everyone, the past few years i have seen some awesome races on hoosiers and goodyears, im a bit Bias to one of those tire companies simply because I can read and pedict one better than the other. from a fans perspective im not 100% convinced they can attest to one race on goodyears vs hoosiers being a better program than the other, they both work, and they both fail, the competition is on the same dirt,same track condition, with the same tire,  as team x,y,z...




dirtdevil
March 26, 2015 at 12:39:28 AM
Joined: 09/30/2005
Posts: 1387
Reply


also noted, tire companies will not stock a truckload of tires at any givin race if X brand becomes more desireable, racers will choose which tire is leaning towards a favorite and most perdictable, thus tire companies will open marketing agreements to teams to utilize thier rubber,  they manufacture tires to sell , not sit on, i dont belive many would be attracted to a "open" tire rule to which they need to do extensive product testing in with no large margin of profit,  dont get me wrong, i would love to see open manufactures on tires, but no one company is willing to take the hit on thier product being the stepchild, its the simple "all or nothing" mentality in the marketing world we live in several durometer values could be added for compatabilities to which tires are deemed legal, its not my time or place to select a tire rule nor am i of professionalizm to fill that position, I do understand the "whole picture" is much larger than we would wish to understand, maybe the day will come for a variety of manufactures to show up with a truckload of tires on one givin night, I trouble is  wouldnt expect to see all of them the next race if thier effort wasnt productive the first time. 



sc lm race fan
March 26, 2015 at 12:42:02 AM
Joined: 01/27/2005
Posts: 411
Reply

People are on the wrong tire that causes rubber up tracks. It's the left rear that causes it. I have been to a lot of races rubber starts at the top or one or 2 lanes off bottom then moves down. Have been to race couple years go, top rubbered up drivers found it moved right rear onto it each lap with 24 cars running it moved down one car width each lap till it was all the way from top to bottom.



cubicdollars
March 26, 2015 at 03:28:41 AM
Joined: 02/27/2005
Posts: 4443
Reply
This message was edited on March 26, 2015 at 08:50:24 AM by cubicdollars

Oldies but Goodies...

 

"I didn't see a big problem when we had to put on the 16" (wide right rear tire) for the ASCS show. I think 16" is a move in the right direction, but it plain and simply is not enough. The tire companies will probably freak out on this, but I believe we need to cut the left rear width back to around 12" to help take some of the drive out of the car. Less tire, less power needed." - Jeff Swindell

 

Dewease thinks the problem is easily solved. "The late models went through this years ago," Dewease said. "They had a big right rear and had all these wedges to put in the car, and it was too easy to go fast. We have the same problem. They went to a narrow tire and unhooked the cars and now, they have to race." 

"That's what we need to do. The tires have gotten so good, that we need to go to a smaller tire." - Lance Dewease

 

It was an eye-opener to some when they compared the right rear tire of a late model to that of a sprint car (at the World Finals).

The right rear tire of the late model is considerably smaller in circumference and width. The late model also weighs twice as much as a sprint car, but yet, uses half the tire.

At one time the late models had wedge bodies and plexiglas wings and sideboards all over them and they also used a big soft floppy right rear tire. When they finally outlawed the wedge bodies and went to the harder and smaller tire, the racing arguably got a whole lot better. Those who have been advocating for smaller and harder tires for sprint cars say that something could be learned from the late models.

I've had an ongoing argument/debate with a couple of drivers who want to solely blame the racetrack when, on occasion, the racing isn't what we hope it would be. If it weren't for the late model race, where they were passing, I'm sure those guys would still say it was the fault of the racetrack and that it "was too fast" and not slick enough for the sprint cars. But the argument goes right out the window when the late models were able to pass and put on a good race on the same racetrack. - Brad Doty

 

Or else you get #5... http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/03/2015_sprint_car_season_preview.html#incart_river

 

Charlie Swartz at the 1982 Dirt Track World Championship @ Pennsboro, West Virgina.


 

 

 

They don't even know how to spell sprint car much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com



cubicdollars
March 26, 2015 at 03:45:22 AM
Joined: 02/27/2005
Posts: 4443
Reply
This message was edited on March 26, 2015 at 08:56:11 AM by cubicdollars

The only other easy alternative to unhook them besides the tires is to make a wing angle rule, plus they wouldn't make so much dirty air.

They start messing with the motors it is either going to cost a lot of money or hp will go down which no one really wants to see. Hp is not the problem, it is why people love race cars. Late models run 430s.

Winged sprint cars are just too hooked up. That is why they are so expensive. And just simply going to a little smaller wing is also too expensive short term. Smaller harder tires or a wing angle rule or both are the only answers.

They should also make it illegal to cut up a brand new tire and force it to only last one night. It's a waste of time and money and it goes against the whole point of a tire rule in the first place.


 

 

 

They don't even know how to spell sprint car much less chromoly...http://www.ycmco.com


sc lm race fan
March 26, 2015 at 05:11:01 AM
Joined: 01/27/2005
Posts: 411
Reply

As cubicdollars has said late models run D420 or D55 witch are around a 25 compound. But they also only run 2 to 4 inches of stagger.

The tires are not the problem on a sprint car. Take the same car take the wings off it runs about 2 to 4 seconds a lap slower.

The problem with a wing car is the wing and how it is made. Flat is fine just get rid of the wickerbill that dirtys up the air coming off the back of the wing.

Also as I keep putting on here it's the side boards that are the problem they act like rudders of a boat. With the car winged over they loosen up the car on entry and tighten it up on exit. The wing main body or center just acts as drag down the straights so you need more horse power to move it faster through the air.

So as we know, a loose car on entry is faster than a tight car. A tight car on exit is faster than loose car on exit.





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