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Topic: Port Royal Speedway group Time Trials.
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March 04, 2015 at
04:45:48 PM
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I see Port Royal will be having several races this season using group time trial for the 410's. I don't know how other tracks do this , but Port splits the field, and then times the cars grouped by what heat race they will run. For example , say there are 24 cars in the pits. They will divide them into three heats with 8 cars each . Then they will divide them in half and run time trials with 4 cars in each session . I have no problem with this system. What I don't like is then they invert the top 4 fastest cars in each group for the heat lineups. This will put the fastest car in each group starting fourth in each heat race. Then they take the top two from each heat into the inversion for the feature. This is where I have a problem. With only eight cars in your time trial group , there is no incentive at all to get the fastest time. Drivers are better off just sandbagging a bit to get a front row spot. Running time trials against a full field would make it almost impossible to sandbag , but against 8 cars it can be done . How do other tracks / sanctioning bodies do their group time trrials?
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March 04, 2015 at
06:40:25 PM
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I am not a big fan of group time trials but I will bet the top four or five in each heat will separated by a couple of tenth of a second. you would have to be real good at judging your speed and knowing what the others are doing to be third or fouth fastest to get the front row and not be fifth and end up in the third row. If you are fastest you get the second row.
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March 04, 2015 at
07:09:38 PM
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1980
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Yup, how do you sandbag without knowing for sure what the other 7 guys in your heat are doing? Are they sandbagging too? If so, how much. Doubt you have anything to wotty about. Drivers are going to time their best rather than risk sandbaging thier way into a 3rd or 4th row starting spot.
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March 04, 2015 at
07:23:56 PM
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02/02/2015
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31
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Reply to:
Posted By: tenter on March 04 2015 at 04:45:48 PM
I see Port Royal will be having several races this season using group time trial for the 410's. I don't know how other tracks do this , but Port splits the field, and then times the cars grouped by what heat race they will run. For example , say there are 24 cars in the pits. They will divide them into three heats with 8 cars each . Then they will divide them in half and run time trials with 4 cars in each session . I have no problem with this system. What I don't like is then they invert the top 4 fastest cars in each group for the heat lineups. This will put the fastest car in each group starting fourth in each heat race. Then they take the top two from each heat into the inversion for the feature. This is where I have a problem. With only eight cars in your time trial group , there is no incentive at all to get the fastest time. Drivers are better off just sandbagging a bit to get a front row spot. Running time trials against a full field would make it almost impossible to sandbag , but against 8 cars it can be done . How do other tracks / sanctioning bodies do their group time trrials?
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Knoxville group times their weekly races and I think it's great for the fans-single time trials are as borrowing as watching paint dry. Their 360s and 305s time in groups of six and the 410s time in groups of three. Whether how they line up to has to do with heat race lineups I don't know. The 410s are really fun this way if two or three fast cars time together-they don't hold back anything.
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March 04, 2015 at
07:29:13 PM
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What is the reward for being fast time? Nothing that I can figure?????
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March 04, 2015 at
08:30:39 PM
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1980
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Reward for QT is starting no worse than 4th in a heat. Knoxville awards points for time trials so QT helps win a track championship. As for sandbagging, i picked a random night at Knoxville. They invert 8 in the A. QT was 15.406. 8th quick was 15.603. Think anyon
e is good enough to shave 2 tenths of a second off thier time trial lap so they can start on the front row?
Bottom line, if you don't like that format that much, stay home
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March 04, 2015 at
11:59:18 PM
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There is no way that 8 drivers in a group time that close on a regular night. There is always a car or two , maybe 3 off the pace more than that.
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March 05, 2015 at
12:02:56 AM
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By the way , I'm not really complaining . I'm just putting an observation out there and it is backed up by more drivers than what people would think. I just don't like going to the races and the fast cars are always penalized.
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March 05, 2015 at
09:13:39 AM
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Yo' tent, that's 1st and 8th in the whole field, you probably caught that by now. When does it look like things will start happening at Lincoln and the Grove? Has your weather been as bad as some of the States around you? Take It Easy....
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March 05, 2015 at
10:43:04 AM
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on March 04 2015 at 08:30:39 PM
Reward for QT is starting no worse than 4th in a heat. Knoxville awards points for time trials so QT helps win a track championship. As for sandbagging, i picked a random night at Knoxville. They invert 8 in the A. QT was 15.406. 8th quick was 15.603. Think anyon
e is good enough to shave 2 tenths of a second off thier time trial lap so they can start on the front row?
Bottom line, if you don't like that format that much, stay home
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I believe this year they are drawing for invert with a chance of 0, 4, 6 or 8. Puts more incentive to TT fast, worst you could start (if you transfer through your heat) will be 8th, but you could start on the pole by being Quicktime now.
I think this eliminates any need to sandbag, and you get qualifying points toward the season title as well (and we've seen how important qualifying points are in the WoO the past few years).
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March 05, 2015 at
01:47:18 PM
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1980
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Reply to:
Posted By: vande77 on March 05 2015 at 10:43:04 AM
I believe this year they are drawing for invert with a chance of 0, 4, 6 or 8. Puts more incentive to TT fast, worst you could start (if you transfer through your heat) will be 8th, but you could start on the pole by being Quicktime now.
I think this eliminates any need to sandbag, and you get qualifying points toward the season title as well (and we've seen how important qualifying points are in the WoO the past few years).
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Last year they inverted 8 every week. You really think they changed that to eliminate sandbagging? Tell me who "sandbagged" their way to a front row start at knoxville by shaving 2 or 3 tenths of a second off their time trial.
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March 05, 2015 at
01:48:43 PM
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1980
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Reply to:
Posted By: tenter on March 05 2015 at 12:02:56 AM
By the way , I'm not really complaining . I'm just putting an observation out there and it is backed up by more drivers than what people would think. I just don't like going to the races and the fast cars are always penalized.
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So you prefer the fast cars start up front so there is no passing. Wow!
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March 05, 2015 at
02:14:28 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on March 05 2015 at 01:47:18 PM
Last year they inverted 8 every week. You really think they changed that to eliminate sandbagging? Tell me who "sandbagged" their way to a front row start at knoxville by shaving 2 or 3 tenths of a second off their time trial.
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I don't believe people sandbag (but I do know quite a few people who think that it's possible). If it was possible, I think you'd see the best cars starting on the front row every week (you don't).
Personally, I'm not a fan of the chance of a 0 invert, but it is what it is. If it were up to me, the invert would be 6 (take 4) in the heats and an invert of 6 in the feature and make them all 25 laps.
But, I get my $$$'s worth when I go to Knoxville every time (maybe not the Outlaw Shows), so I'll watch no matter what the format is.
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March 05, 2015 at
05:46:47 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on March 05 2015 at 01:48:43 PM
So you prefer the fast cars start up front so there is no passing. Wow!
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I guess I'm sort of old school in my thinking when I think the fastest cars have earned the right to start up front. Make your car faster if you want to win. Don't be a welfare dependant and hope for handout wins. LOL.
MSPN....yes , the weather is bad in central PA. Snowing right now. Port has about 6" on the track yet and I think lincoln and the Grove are as bad or worse. Then the frost is deep too since Feb was the 4th coldest month of all time as recorded at Harrisburg .
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March 05, 2015 at
05:48:38 PM
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PS. Vande ... Port doesn't line up the features by time trials after the heats. They do a re-draw of the inversion cars . Thats why I'm not liking the system they are using.
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March 05, 2015 at
05:50:10 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: MSPN on March 05 2015 at 09:13:39 AM
Yo' tent, that's 1st and 8th in the whole field, you probably caught that by now. When does it look like things will start happening at Lincoln and the Grove? Has your weather been as bad as some of the States around you? Take It Easy....
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I knew what he was talking about, but at Port you are only timing against the cars in your heat , and yes , you can sandbag then.
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March 05, 2015 at
07:13:04 PM
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1980
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Reply to:
Posted By: tenter on March 05 2015 at 05:46:47 PM
I guess I'm sort of old school in my thinking when I think the fastest cars have earned the right to start up front. Make your car faster if you want to win. Don't be a welfare dependant and hope for handout wins. LOL.
MSPN....yes , the weather is bad in central PA. Snowing right now. Port has about 6" on the track yet and I think lincoln and the Grove are as bad or worse. Then the frost is deep too since Feb was the 4th coldest month of all time as recorded at Harrisburg .
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Old school? It was in the 50's when promoters started using inverts to make racing better and draw more fans. Starting the fast cars in front had led to follow the leader events and fan interest was falling off. How old are you if you remember the days when straight up starts with QT pole front row was the standard format?
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March 05, 2015 at
08:17:26 PM
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I have only noticed one thing i do not like about group time trials, is sometimes the faster guys get put with the slower guys and can sometimes really mess up times. I have seen a few times where a much obviously faster guy caught up to the guy in front of him in no time, and was forced to either back off the throttle or have to switch lines through the turn and cause himself problems. Other than that, i think it will be interesting, at least Port Royal is trying different things and getting opinions from fans, as well as turning their facility around. Unfortunately cannot say the same about the Friday night track.
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March 06, 2015 at
12:28:25 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: oswald on March 05 2015 at 07:13:04 PM
Old school? It was in the 50's when promoters started using inverts to make racing better and draw more fans. Starting the fast cars in front had led to follow the leader events and fan interest was falling off. How old are you if you remember the days when straight up starts with QT pole front row was the standard format?
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I've been to many , many , many races since the 50's that were started heads up by time trials. Your response holds no water.
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March 06, 2015 at
01:24:38 PM
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Reply to:
Posted By: tenter on March 06 2015 at 12:28:25 PM
I've been to many , many , many races since the 50's that were started heads up by time trials. Your response holds no water.
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Totally agree, I've been to them in the past year that start heads up by time trials.
The races they nights they invert the field is usually a little bit better racing, but not always (sometimes that quick-time car isn't as fast at the end of the night and some guy that timed in 7th or 8th is the fastest by the end of the night).
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