Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Been looking for a sprint car.  I've driven/worked on about everything else that goes in circles on dirt but never worked on a sprint.

What do I need to be looking at when checking out used cars as far as maintanence intervals?  Like say rearend, steering, fuel system?  For instance when a seller says the rearend has X number of nights on it, should be good to go.   What he means is, if you don't freshen it this winter you'll be into it the second week of the season.

I'm wanting to buy a turnkey car with the idea of running it 15-25 nights next year.  On a budget, but would rather buy good stuff up front than be replacing components once we get going.

TIA

the things Ive most importantly noticed with used parts is, the longivity of parts matters most on how much HP you have and what size tracks you will be running, good maininance can spread out the life of your parts if they survive the fight night in and night out . im not 100% positive your level of competition ,but, alot of top teams go for lightweight stuff that is cool, and most performance enhancing, but not nesessarly the right choice for a rookie? frequently they fail, and thier life is much much less, look for a car from a team that has lots of help and lots of time, typically they have cars that get maintained nicely and they sell for dimes on the dollar,  alot of good deals out there as compaired to if one was going to buy and build piece by piece, if your not super picky of items buying a roller or turn key is the way to go.  get a good understanding with the eller, more often if they are serious about selling they may give you a hand getting pointed in the right direction your first night out.  goodluck

dirtdevil hit a lot of good points.  If this is your maiden year, I don't recommend buying a roller with ultra lightweight components bolted on unless its titanium.  Titanium isn't allowed in a lot of 360 and 305 classes, but if you're running a class that allows it, titanium is a good investment.  Most sprint car folks are going to be honest and tell you if the car was involved in a crash, obviously stay away from that scenario.  Steering gear and rear-end are your 2 most expensive parts on the roller.  Without taking them apart, you just don't know.  However, if you have a dial indicator, put one on the LR & RR and spin the axle.  This will tell you quickly if the axle is bent.  Take the bird cages off, remove the bearings and spin them in your hand checking if they have any rough spots.  This is a quick easy way to tell if the owner does minimal maintenance or pays attention to details.  Jack up the front, put on a front wheel and have someone put pressure on it while you slowly turn the steering wheel back and forth.  Sometimes you can feel if the gears have a defect.  Buying used wheels can be tricky, especially the centers of the LR and RR.  If you have the capability, unbolt each, throw them on a lathe and spin to see if they are bent.  Do the same with the front hubs and drive shaft.  Fuel bladders are virtually impossible to tell if it's good or bad, so you have to ask if the owner drains the fuel each winter.  I'd suggest staying away from a bladder more than 5 years old though.  As far as the frame goes, it depends whether the owner was using it for 410, 360 or 305.  Here's my suggestion for the maximum number of races; 410=15-20; 360=25-30; 305=???.  Again, this greatly depends whether the chassis was involved in any crashes, which an honest seller will divulge to you.  And plan on throwing away the torsion bars and buying new.

Happy hunting and good luck!

Thanks for the responses.

So a 410 will fatique the chassis in 15 nights?  It won't hold a setup or what?  I'll be running a 305 but I see a lot of what's to me low-night rollers that have been ran 360/410 for sale.

What's a car going to weigh with a iron-head, wet-sump 305 without a lot of titanium?  Minimum where I'd run most is 1550.  I weight 200ish right now, super lean I'd still be 185.  Can't think you'd want to run heavy as underpowered as they are.

What's the life expectancy of torsion bars barring a rough track or wrecking?  The car'll just lose ride height then you know they're sacked?

I think he was referring more to the bolt on parts as opposed to the chassis.  410 rear ends/ ring and pinion will wear out much faster than one that is used with a 360/305

You will have no trouble weighing 200 lbs as your car will be about 50 lbs heavy .  Titanium only saves about 5 lbs in a car.  You can do much better watching feul load as alcohal weighs almost 7 lbs a gal., and if you come in after race with 5 extra gal. of fuel you can see my point.  Some 305 groups do not allow titanium.  A top running car at Knoxville 360 had about 45 nights on his chassis so I would not be scared if a car had 20 nights on it.  Do not get a car that has been up side down.  Get a standard  car like a 87-40.  A 86-40 or 88-40 would be ok.  Do not get anything like reverse bars or coil over unless you are an expert chassis man.  Torsion bars now days are very good and last longer than they did years ago.  You can have them checked for about $10,00 each.  If a car does not look maintaned do not buy it.  Top teams buy new cars every year, check with them and when you buy get recomended set up sheets.  Good luck.

How much fuel is a 305 going to use, 3/8ths track, 20 lap feature?

As was mentioned above...a 200# driver in a car with no titanium and a steel head motor should cross the scales around 1600...give or take...

For a 305 don't worry about the chassis being flexed out.... as long as its straight/square you will be fine chassis wise...

And for a steel headed motor do not buy a 41" setback car....40 inch is great, and many times a 39" car is even better for a car with an all steel motor, especially if you are on tracks that slick off most of the time.

And for sure try to buy a complete roller. If you don't already have an inventory of sprintcar stuff you will nickel and dime yourself to death if you buy just a chassis and start putting parts on it. Regardless of how good a deal you find on each item, you will still end up buying new this and that out of a catalog, and spending money to have the used parts you found shipped to you. And every rookie always ends up buying something that looks like a good deal and then finds out it doesn't fit what they are trying to build. YOu can piss away a lot of money if you buy the wrong torsion arms, wrong length driveshaft, etc.

Please plan on spending a few bucks to have your steering gear inspected/freshened. A freshened used gear is as good as new. A steering gear failure is about the worst thing that can happen to you from a cost and safety perspective. KSE and the other companies advise that any time you wreck hard enough to knock the front end out of a car the steering gear should be inspected. Most people don't. There is a 90% chance that any used gear you buy has been involved in some sort of minor wreck that damages front end components.

As for a rear end.... when buying used, if you are going to put it in a 305 car.... check the axle for straighness. Check to see if it shows any evidence of a fluid leak around the snout bearing or the Q/C cover. Pull the inspection plug off the side bell and shine a flashlight in it. If you don't see any pitting, scarring, or severly worn teeth on the R&P and cant see any wobble in the coupler area or the shafts that the Q/C gears ride on that rearend should be just fine for putting in a 305 car. Use good rear end lube and you should get plenty of life out of it. I have raced 4 different 305 cars for other people, both winged and nonwing. Each of those cars had rearends that were purchased used from a 410 or 360 team and had well over 100-150 nights worth of 305 use on them and I have never had a rearend failure. The 305s just don't put near as much strain on the driveline as the components were designed for.

You can build a really good 305 car without buying anything new, but other than safety equipment the first new parts you should buy are torsion bars. Used bars may be just fine, but you never know if they have been bounced hard or if they were twisted the wrong direction any. New bars are cheap and for someone starting out eliminating the variable of possibly having a bad bar will go a long way towards having a car that drives consistently.

And regarding fuel consumption... I don't think I ever burned more that 15 gallons per night in a 305....counting heating the motor, hotlaps, and 8 lap heat and a 15-20 lap main...always on quarter or small 3/8 mile tracks. Budget for 20 gallons per night and you should be fine.

Loose is when you hit the wall with the rear of the
car, tight is when you hit the wall with the front of
the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and
torque is how far you move the wall.

As stated earier one thing that comes to mind is the front hubs and wheel centers of wheels, if they are billit they are a little trickey to to pinpoint issues with while standing  and inspecting with the naked eye a quick spin is required sometimes to definetly tell you if the hub or wheel center has been crashed, the cast wheel centers and hubs i have found to be much easier to locate cracks/blems ect in . now granted this is proubly going to require some mild dissassembly of the axle,(removeal of tire or spindle /hub assembly ) to closely inspect, I cant even count the amount of hubs and wheel centers i have laying around because they were questionable to use.. a wheel center or hub will destroy your new car quicker than you would like to find out besides hurting yourself , I purchased a panhard bar once many years ago, it looked like a great deal, it would work great on my car measurement wise and heck it was there on the table in front of me i needed one, i was ignorant to the fact some assclown welded it up humself in his shop with seamed mild tubing, it worked for about six laps, long enuff for me to get aggressive in a top three position in a heat race, the car grew tighter and tighter in the corners, hell i just drove it in harder and harder , eventually the bar was bending enuff to allow the driveshaft to hit the chassis right next to my ass, the shaft kinked and started flayling around like there was ten sticks of dynamite going off next to me it slapped around long enuff to strike a portion of the chassis that entered thro the tin and into the cockpit, .030 sheeted aluminum is no protection for a 3/4" grade 8 bolt the pullbar arm and braket deflected into the cockpit and struck my elbow, i spent the next two months in a cast and to this day i cant fully extend my elbow, a real pain in the ass when I reach for the salt at the table... i spent a month and a half out of work.. basically pieced my car back together with one arm. and went racing i couldnt start my car or finish buckeling my helmet myself, it proubly wasnt a good idea to get back on the track but i found myself with lots of time because my employers insurance wouldnt allow me on job sites with a injury. i won one race as a one armed bandit, but the money and trophy made would never come close to the pain, medical bills and lost wage from that one "DAM" part I should have never picked up .    dont be afraid to ask someone who has raced sprintcars for several years to inspect pieces with you, his encounters over the years are worth the weight in gold , like I said earlier there is some awesome deals out there, just pay close attention to what you are buying , One piece of advice I was givin was sprintcars are intresting, many pieces on them are held together by one bolt , your one bolt away from disaster, for many of us thats what makes them so appealing and seperates the men from the boys..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bazJSO_cNps

have you seen this one? wow ,   looks like the axle went

 It's not a wall,grow some balls boy,its a cement 
cushion!!