Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

Lawsuit against Williams Grove Speedway has some in racing industry on edge

Can someone answer me this question, how many times did Westbrook race at the Grove before this accident happened? 

do it in the dirt

WELL.. I AM NOT ON EDGE...THE GUY IS A QUAD..AND DESERVES EVERY DOLLAR HE CAN GET FROM THE INSURANCE COMPANYS..AND MEATBAG WHY WOULD YOU TAKE THE SIDE OF INSURANCE FILTH ?..ALL THEY EVER DO IS BLEED  EVERY CENT THEY CAN FROM THE PEOPLE.

I certainly do not agree with the lawyer's argument that a higher catch fence would have prevented injury.   A higher fence could have just as easily thrown the racecar back into traffic with a much worse outcome. 

Ambulance chasers at it again

That post makes no sense?  Yes, he is paralyzed, but he wasnt a victim sitting at home when that happened.  He knew the track, signed a waiver, and went racing.  One year before this Billy Kimmel was killed when his car didnt leave the track and was struck by another as a result.  Westbrook had been running 358s for a couple years, 410s for a season At Williams Grove when this happened.  He was fast, but I watched the 1/3w go on a couple wild rides before that too, more than some for sure.  I hope he gets the help he deserves and the racing community has definitely tried to help in multiple ways...  I don't agree with the suit though.  

What improvements have been made to Bridgeport and Lincoln since last year?  That's a financial thing, I'd be fine giving the tracks an extra $5 a race to improve purse AND safety, but you should know the fan base well enough to know they'll lose their shit over that.  These improvements cost Money.  

In a court of law, that waver he signed means nothing...

Opinions may vary...

Actually, I lied...Williams Grove has made an enormous improvement to safety by hiring a security team that doesn't require security for their security...   :/

Opinions may vary...

Then why have a waiver?  I'm not a lawyer, I'm genuinely curious.  I have to sign one for every SCCA event I participate in.  It's definitely benefitted the club in the past.  

Stan,

Just a hunch, but me thinks you are not a fan of the Williams Grove Speedway - but it's just a hunch....not sure why I think that.

It's done to appease the insurance carrier...In this particular case, the plaintiff is sueing the business, not the insurance company... 

Opinions may vary...

And you think maybe the business has insurance ?   no one sues the insurance,  but I might be misstaken given that you know everything

I'm not a lawyer but here is the jist of what I get from it.

A release of liability waiver releases an entity from responsibility due to circumstances which they have no control over or are a reasonably assumed risk due to the activity.

The release does not release an entity from responsibility of events which they have control over.  Example....  

Granted each state is different in 2006 a group of skydivers when their plane crashed during takeoff due to a lack of proper maintaince failed on take off

http://www.sullivanjournal.com/news/local_news/article_d0d1c3f6-b829-11e2-ad94-0019bb30f31a.html

If the entity is found neglegent then the release isn't worth the paper it's written on.  That's basically the jist behind all this.  If the plantiff can prove the Grove was negligent they will win.  The burdon of proof though is on the plantiff.   Being there are other cases similar to the one above where the entity was found not a fault.  

When something like this happens long term care can wipe out a family.  I don't know any drivers back east and have never been to the track but when things like this happen the wishes of the families come into play as well.  I don't know what his marital status was or if there are children involved but I would suspect there could be a lot of regret sitting in that chair seeing the position his loved ones are now in.  There might be some concern for this not happening to other drivers as well.  It's pretty easy to bash someone for daring to do anything that could be detrimental to the sport when we're not in that position.  It would tear me up when I was younger to have to put family in that positon and watch them suffer financially because of my choices.  I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is always two and sometimes more sides to every story.  It's sad and unfortunate this had to happen.  Most of these guys running weekly shows are working people doing it on weekends.  I think drivers need to consider the unthinkable and carry some kind of supplemental insurace to protect their families.

Darn it, there I go making sense and having empathy again on a Sprint Car board. 

Stan Meissner

I personally think he shouldn't be allowed in the out area anymore if any of this has any case in court.  He's in a wheelchair in a busy pit area, if something were to happen and he can't get out of the way because he's not as mobile as everyone else, will he sue again?? 

For my last post on the topic, the lack of an Industry Standard regarding safety in dirt track racing is what would have me on edge and this, in my opinion, will pave the way for Mr. Westbrook to be successfull in this endevor...  

Opinions may vary...

Well said Kossuth. Proving negligence is the name of the game. No matter what occurs people can always find an attorney that will take their case cause if they win it means $$$$$. 

As far as the guy making the uneducated comment about nasty insurance companies and this being all their fault in an earlier post, I would say explain your basis for that further other than I'm guessing you dislike paying your premium. No Insurance Company is suing Williams Grove, In fact the only insurance company thats involved in this suit is likely the one that is paying the cost to defend Williams Grove and themselves. I'm going to guess that your next thought is that the big bad insurance company is just trying to not pay anything. I would bet you money that he has been made offers in mediation, for all you know they offered $2 million but it was rejected. All I'm saying is you can complain about your insurance but the day something happens to you you might not be complaining any more, remember, your insurance not only pays for physical damages but they will also pay for a defense for you and that can often be more expensive than anything.

I honestly can't believe that he still fields a car and goes to Williams Grove. My guess is WG is allowing this for now while the trial is still ongoing because it plays in their favor IMO at trial. I'm going to take a guess that once this is over win or lose he will no longer be coming threw the gate.

http://gph.is/XMLGff

Where did I take "insurance filth's" side?  I asked a simple question that nobody answered!

do it in the dirt

That doesn't matter in the slightest how many times he did or didn't race.  Go back to the skydiving example I listed.  The entity hosting the activity is liable to ensure that items within reasonable control are dealt with.  IE if you don't perform the proper maintance on the aircraft and the aircraft crashes the entity could be held liable.

In summary it wouldn't matter in the example above if it was the skydivers' first or 100th jump, the entity would still be responsible to deal with things which are in their immediate control, liability waiver or not.

The burden of proof is on the plantiff, and even if he wins this iteration of the lawsuit he will not see a single dime of the money for 5 years or more given it would be tied up in appeals and such.  

Nobody wins here regardless of the result of the trial/appeal.  The fans, the track, and John all lose.  If John would win that money will most likely never get John out of that chair.  I don't know John at all, but I suspect he has some outragous medical bills and will continue to have some outragous medical bills.  No health insurance company will insure him for any reasonable rate.  What about his future health care?  His parents won't be able to take care of him forever, so at some point he will end up at a home of some sort.  How would that be paid for?  I'm sure John would give every penny of it to be able to walk again, but it's not likely and that in itself is unfortunate.  

If you sit back and look at this for what it is, it's just ugly.  We all lose.

My opinion or any of our opinions on this matter really don't matter at all being this case is now in the hands of the court system.  

At this point we might as well strap in for the ride.  Whether John wins or loses the lawsuit this isn't going to just affect us Posse guys, the stink from this is going to affect all local motorsports.