Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I can see both sides of the arguement on this lawsuit. I ride dirt bikes in several OHV parks in Iowa and if I ever got hurt I would never sue. I assume the responsablity that what I am doing could be dangerous and there is potential I could get injured. It is up to me to ride within my abilities and limit that possiblity.

I would put race car drivers in that same catagory that they know the dangers involved and accept that risk.

On the flip side the tracks should be safe to race on. I have been to several tracks that have potential safety issues and they have been that way for years. Unless there is a bad crash or somebody gets hurt nothing is going to change, most tracks are reactive rather than proactive.

Racing will probably never be 100% safe, you can't account for every scenario and the speeds involved to make it that way. You can limit the possibility by making the cars and tracks safer but there will always be injuries. In the end thats the accepted risk the drivers take.

agree.

When Wolfgang was burned, it was the other competitors, track workers, and bystanders that said to him that what happened shouldn't have happened (ie: they saw the incompetence of the track and WoO in regards to fire safety).

I was not there, haven't ever seen the video (if there is one), and don't know any particulars about this case.  But if anyone (fans, track personnel, or other teams/drivers told him that what happened to him was because of negligence on the track's part, he's doing the right thing for all of them (as it's just a matter of time before it happens again)).

None of know what the lawyers were doing trying to settle before this went to court (did Westbrook just ask that they change the fence and update safety at the track in exchange for dropping the lawsuit?, did they ask for considerably less $$$ to pay off existing medical bills?). 

I'd guess not, but even if so if it's anything like when Wolfgang sued, odds are that WG buried their head in the sand and said, nope, we're not changing the fence, nothing wrong with it.  He won't win this case anyway....

If people could ever get over the bitterness of this and realize an outcome of this could be some needed safety improvements will be made at Williams Grove.  That is good thing for all the drivers who will race there in the future.

Nothing will change until something forces change. Safer barriers are everywhere in NASCAR now, unfortunately it took tragedy to force that change.

What is so bad if WG ends up making saftey improvements after all this is said and done?

I didn't mean to imply it was bad, my implication was:  maybe they don't want to change, so instead of taking a deal where they had to make certain improvements and pay out less cash, they chose the route of "he's not going to win, so we don't have to do anything..."

It sounds like they may need to make some safety improvements to the track and not just the drop off Ill give you that. However I think Steve O'Neal said it best on Elliott's last article "I just hope it doesn't get to the point where someone comes in and tells you what you need to do. That will shut places down." They know the budget and what is feasible. Hopefully they make improvements and still stay within their means. More improvements may save them money in the future if these situation can be avoided. I just want the tracks to stay open so I dont have to go to some terrible chick flick movie with my wife on the weekends. It irritating when we sign these waviers and when something goes wrong and all of a sudden that paper means nothing. If this is the case then dont make me sign a wavier everytime I go into the pits. Why stop here when you can sue the frame manufacturer as well? or the seat? or the helmet? Have they made direct changes after this crash?

That's basically what you said and where did I call anyone any names? You're just a sad little PA and Williams Grove hater. If you're hometrack was getting sued in a similiar fashion YOU would be the one singing a different tune. There are thousands of tracks around the country that don't have catch fences and surely all of them have something that can cause injury. Every single driver that gets injured can find a reason to sue because "it's their right". What a great reason! Racers know the risk and accept it. I guess Shepard should have sued Knoxville for ending his career. Tony Stewart should have sued the track where he broke his leg; that cost him millions. The list can go on...

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I guess I'd be a fool not too. After all it's 2014 , not 1970(as larsonfan pointed out), and that's American way now. I can do something risky and unsafe and just downright stupid because if I get hurt it's someone elses fault and I can sue their asses off! 

I honestly don't blame John. Anyone, including myself, would be tempted to sue when there's a chance you can get millions of dollars. Even though everyone with a conscience knows it's wrong, I'm no saint either.  I blame the system. The fact that this hasn't been thrown out yet is just ludicrous.

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Shortening the straights and widening the surface would undoubtedly make the racing a whole lot better but IDK about safer. LOL 

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You and your buds absolute amaze me. Your callousness is incredible. This guy is paralyzed,  and all you guys can think of is damn, I hope this doesn't affect me. Compassion and selflessness stops at the state line I guess. Karma is a bitch.

Do you actually get off at ripping on Posse fans on this sensitive of a topic? We understand you hate the Posse. We get it. Take your haterade to another thread.  Start 50 threads for all I care about how much the Posse and their fans are terrible, but not this one. 

Where will the 1W tow on a Friday if the Grove closes down? 

Callous question...maybe...but if he loves racing, he certainly knows that all loves come to an end sometime...and the suit may require him to come up with an answer.

How's that for karma?

Susky is the fall back...and that catch fence can't catch a butterfly.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

No actually I feel sorry for everyone involved, John, you fans....not the insurance companies who take as much of my money as they do yours. It is sensitive. Just no class to call someone who is paralyzed assclown, bozo. 

I'm actually a quite compassionate person and I feel bad that John is paralyzed, saw him race many, many times and I respect them all. I even said above that I don't hold anything against him for trying to capitalize, but I hope in the name of common sense and the future of our sport that he loses. I don't feel Williams Grove is at all liable for his injuries. He could have sufferd the same injuries at any track, catch fence or not. That's the risk you take anywhere. The last 3 drivers I know of that were killed racing sprint cars in PA(Kimmell, Williamson and Whitcomb) sufferd injuries after being hit by another car after flipping and staying on the track; so would a catch fence have saved him? Who knows? It could have been worse. Have you ever seen the outside of turns 1-2 at Williams Grove? It's a steep drop off after the bank but filling it in would require a major earth moving task that would be highly impractical.  Catch fences and higher guardrails pose other risks. They say it's usually better to flip end over end many times than to hit something that stops you abruptly or to get hit by another car.

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how many (sprint car) drivers have sued tracks, sanctions etc.? guys like Leffler, Steve King, the kid that got killed in Cali when his tire blew up. there is alot of drivers and drivers families out there that could have sued companies, tracks, etc. for saftey issues. becasuse when it comes down to it every driver that has been killed, paralyzed or hurt in a accident has been do to some form of saftey malfunction. It boils down to a lawyer or a greedy family member telling the driver "hey we can get rich quick here" and these drivers listen and dont realize that a lawsuit of this magnituede will negativly affect every track in america. Westbrook isnt going to get better or be able to walk if he whens this lawsuit. Go to the lawyers for Williams Grove say this is whats going to happen if you dont make the changes. give them the oppurtunity to fix it and if they don't then go after them.

I'm trying to keep an optomistic outlook on this trial.  Hopefully we end up with a new speedway owner.  

Guys, you can yell "He knew the risks," until you are blue in the face.  It doesn't change the fact that people have won lawsuits even after filling out waivers and other such papers.  Im not saying its right I'm just saying there's a chance, a pretty good one, that he wins this case.  Whenever it gets tossed to a jury, all bets are off, and anything can happen.  By the way, in this article is part of his testimony and its pretty much what I thought he'd say.  

He doesn't fund his team, his sponsors do.

He brought up  the idea of filling in around Turn 1 and never heard back.

He doesnt tell his drivers to race at the Grove.

This was all under questioning from his attorney, so we'll have to see what happens on cross examination.

http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ssf/2014/07/john_westbrook_testifies_in_la.html