Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

I know this has been discussed before, but I could not find the most recent discussion.  We are going to purchase new head/neck restraints for both of our sons racing sprint cars this year and would like to know what seems to be the safest one to buy.  Both boys have full containment seats.

Also, we have a new sponsor that wants to buy 2 new uniforms, and he would like his name on them.  We had recently heard that it was not safe to have anything embroidered on the uniform, if that is true, what is the best/safest way to have sponsor names put on a uniform.

Thanks in advance for any constructive input, any help is appreciated, as there are so many new products on the market it is sometimes difficult to keep up.

For custom uniforms embroidered checkout Design 500.  They have been in the business a long time.  I have a suit from them with embroidered sponsors on it and it withstands the demands of sprint car racing.  I have seen their suits make it through fires also.

I currently use a HANS as that is what was available when I sought out a head and neck restraint.  I am happy with it, but each person seems to have different comfort levels with the way each of the devices out there work.

I still use the DeFender previously endorsed by Butlerbuilt, i beleve it is now called the Nexgen? maybe different hands own it now? im a pretty common build  it took some customizing to make it function perfectly and for comfort, nothing major, i liked the price,comfort, as well as the design better than the Hans, I do wish to change my shoulder belts to the 2" width type as that would allow for better fit-release from the device, I too have wondered if the typical embrodiery was with treated thread, i suspect if you have the embrodiery done by the suit manufacture it would, i would still recomend use of Nomex-flame proof underware regardless,  the materials avalible today seem to be leaps and bounds over the old materials of yesteryear, i belive some are using digitizing rather than embrodiery, proubly a good queston to ask the leaders in the firesuit industry rather than on here ,  here youll find personal testimony or just a bunch of B.S. sometimes manufactures will strong arm you into purchase without hesitation,  visit many many manufactures step back and consider your highlights and options prior to purchase , try not to reflect on price unless one is way off  from the other. you can pay for a name sometimes as well as the other way around, if one it too high or low its proubly a product you shouldnt be intrested in.   Me personally I use Awesome, Simpson gloves and shoes, Impact belts,Butler seat,Bell helmet,Bell underware,Simpson headsock, i could go on and on why i use each individual piece as to why , and why i determine a exact fit, and function, All of which i have purchased with my own dollar, no corporate aid, purely by specifics, I do wish to change to a Hooker Harness type belt system, again maybe a combination of two products will get me what I want, were racers, we do that kinda thing, im looking for the Ez of buckeling in myself as my crew perfoms last minute duties, right now only one specific crew man can get me belted in correctly where im comfortable, and snug- really really snug- my frame is a medium build and the belts have to run thro the seat perfectly not to loosen, and to get in they have to be backed off quite a ways to get buckled up, its tricky, the ratchet will eliminate the problem we hope. and release worthy hands to tending to the corners of the car.    consider everything, visit with drivers like you are, serious topic worth your questions, and product selection.   goodluck this season.

i am not an expert but i believe the concern on embroidery has to do with people taking uniforms to regular embroidery places and them not using fire proof thread. if you get the uniform from a reputable fire suit manufacturer and have them do the embroidering when the suit is made then it is my understanding that is ok. you should check with the supplier or manufacturer to be certain, and that they are using fire proof thread.

some people take suits to have embroidery done at after market places as an after thought after they have purchased them and those places don't use fire proof thread as a rule. from what i understand that is the concern. if you need embroidery done on a suit you already own, be darn sure whoever is doing it uses fire proof thread. your best bet would be to send it to the manufaturer.

again this is just what i remember hearing in the past. double check my info with the supplier or manufacturer to make certain you are doing the correct thing.

there are several well respected manufacturers out there.

to indy and beyond!!

buzz your exactly right, I too have pondered having more lettering/updates ect to my suit, and its too easy to take the garment to the local shop and have them customize it a bit more, ,with that in mind, our local work load has become typical to have FR type cloathing, big, small,awkword type bodies fill the cloathing required on some job sites, Im assuming there is specific thread one could purchase for tayloring and maybe purchase and bring with to your shop, if they are hesitant to use your specific product move on to someone that will work with you on your specifics, its just too dam easy to kick product out the door and collect on the job these days, Or for best piece of mind send it to the manufacture and they will proubly set you up with the correct action.

http://www.cansewspecialops.com/  I just googled FR thread.. found almost anything one would want when shopping for this type item, I believe it could be nomex,kevlar, treated cotton(probane) ect,  just dont take anyones word for it, or you may be wearing your sponsors name for a lifetime if you dont suffer life threatning type ordeal, Ironically LV just had a wingless driver suffer from a cockpit ignition, the responce time was a lifetime , Wolfgangs incident he stated the fuel was dumping on the floor pan, just thinking about the 3/4" -12an line in the cockpit and a full load of methanol is creepy,it could have been the -6 3/8" also,  either way,   its a recipe for disaster, we all face it as sprinters, something stock cars dont deal with much, just be prepared for the worst..

Hinchman Uniforms / Hans, make sure you get the correct sizing/angle if you do go with the hans, as there are different angles for different body builds and what type of car you race.

As far as uniforms, get ahold of Nancy at Hinchman, her personality alone will make you feel like she has been a friend of yours for over 30 years.  Also it doesn't hurt that they have been in business for getting close to a century. 

When it comes to the head and neck systems out there, so many factors need to be realized.  The main one, which I feel gets overlooked time and time again is driver comfort.  If the driver is not comfortable with what they are wearing then it increases the chances of fatigue, which in turn increases the risk of crashing.  I have worn both the HANS and the Hybrid system and with the way I sit in my seat, angle of my head, and my overall stature, I feel more comfortable using the Hybrid system.  

The one thing I felt with the HANS was it pushed my head too far forward, which then put strain on my neck and as I stated earlier, caused me to fatigue quicker.  With the way you wear the Hybrid, I was able to keep my head more upright and straight with my spine and also be in a more relaxed position. 

Another thing with the HANS was, since I am not a larger built guy, my collar bones are a bit more exposed than others, so with the rigiity of the hans and it riding right on my shoulders and down to my collar bones, when I would tighten my belts the device would dig into those bones.  While I didn't notice it when I was actually racing, it still was a nuicance and made me focus more on that than anything else. 

I am not saying that neither device is better than the other one, I am just giving you the information from my personal experience with both.  Both will do a great job, in reducing the risk of injuries.  Ultimately it depends what works best for your kids. 

I don't what brand seats you purchased, but please look into the customizable seat foam insert kits.  It gives them just alot more added protection especially on crashes where the spine can be compressed.

For crew shirts, pants ect go to Vicci great stuff and all dye infused.  If your looking for professional stuff its the gear to get.  Vicci  707 971 0352 .

CAJ

sounds like you may have been sold the wrong degree hans for you, sounds like the hans you had was for a person with a larger chest! but if your comfortable in the Hybrid now i would stick with that!

there is alot of products avalible , unfortunatly some hidden problems will arise a couple nights after use, such as , the seat i was using was the best built at the time(so i thought) I was comfortable in it but on weekends we had two -three nights of racing my nubs on my sinal cord were almost painfully raw, once i believe they were black and blue and bruised very hard, it was uncomfortable to even lay in bed on my back, after sitting in my first Butlerbuilt the frequent next day pain was eliminated, i thought the construction of the seat was good it turned out the areas of contact were inproper and my spinal cord was resting on the center of the seat , it was confusing because it had a slight concave in center, but not enuff, with my current seat i can race three nights with no spine pain from rubbing, and if your a driver in pain a tender spot will almost make you choose to withdraw for the night, with that being said, I friend of mine cannot use the same neck restaint as me, his neck is so tall the system virtually tucks behind his helmet too low, the Hans has a better desighn option for those with tall necks, take the time in the shop to check and recheck your drivers comfort, your not going to solve everything immediatly, like I said it took a few nights to realize the real problem with my seat, try not to get hung up on one drivers testimony on a product, were all different shapes and sizes, most reputable manufactures will accomidate your specific needs, keeping in contact with drivers undergoing the same dillema's is key, you may find yourself with a product that doesnt quite work for you after purchase, another driver might jump on the chance to try what you have second hand, alot of this stuff is pricey, and like stated earlier the market is getting larger and larger of products avalible.

If you already have a uniform and want to add embroidery you have 3 options... option 1 is to take it to a local embroidery shop and let them use regular thread...absolutely don't do this.

Option 2 is to send it back to the manufacturer... they will do it right but it may take a very long time to get it back.

Option 3 is to find a successful local place and go talk to them. Explain what could happen if they do the job with the wrong materials. Explain to them how important it is not to interfere with the seams or zipper areas. And make them sign an agreement that they will order and only use nomex thread on your job. Tell them you want to watch them open the package the thread arrives in. They can purchase smaller quantities of rarely used materials and I have spoken to a few different shops that are willing to. One was actually very interested in doing firesuits because he was somewhat a racefan and had noticed how many local drivers had stock suits with no embroidery on them and he thought there was a chance to drum up some business if he had the correct materials and somebody in the pits showing off his work every week.

Loose is when you hit the wall with the rear of the
car, tight is when you hit the wall with the front of
the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and
torque is how far you move the wall.

I attended PRI this past year and went to a conferance that had Dr. Terry Trammel speaking about this very thing. The problem is not so much that there is or is not flammble thread, though it does make a differance, as much as the holes that are poked through the unifom, thus exposing the a "hole" for fire to get through. He showed a slide deck presentation that had people who have been in fires and has their sponsor logo, permamently "tattooed" to their bodies in the form of a scar. The uniform people that do quality uniforms, I am sure only "logo" the first layer, and the other layers are not perferated. I use a Velocita uniform, and a HANS device, with a Bell GTX2 Helmet. Dr. Trammel stated what most here have, Quality =$$$$, but the price of a quality suit, Helmet, Head and Neck device, seat, and insert, are much cheaper than a Emergency room visit with a hospital stay. Just my 2 cents....I hope this helps. If not, I would seek the information the Dr. Trammel has on safety equipment as he seems to be a good authority on this, and he is also a racer. www.motorsportsmd.com

Great post.   One of the ways that a firesuit is measured is the number of layers.   having embrodied logos sewn into your firesuit destroys the level of layers.   It would make sense that the professional crafted firesuits would only be embrodied on the first level leaving the other lower levels unaltered.

From Mastercraft / Impact Race products web site

Embroidery and Decorative Patch Instructions

The construction of the driving or crew suit, such as the sewing and seaming methods, are just as important to the integrity of the garment as the fire retardant materials used to manufacture the suit. Quilting of the inner liner to the outer layer is standard on all two-layer (and higher) MasterCraft Safety and Impact driving suits. The purpose of the quilting is to improve air circulation and to transfer heat at a slower rate and with less force and energy. The air pockets formed between each quilted stitch pattern delays the heat from being transferred to the body as quickly therefore it is important to preserve this protective air-layer by not penetrating the inner layer of the suit with embroidery or decorative additions. For this reason, MasterCraft Safety and Impact embroidery only the outer layer of the suit using Nomex® (aramadic) thread prior to final assembly of your driving or crew suit.

MasterCraft Safety / Impact is one of the few manufacturers worldwide that can customer embroider only the outer layer of a suit prior to it being constructed together in final assembly. Only the original suit manufacturers have access to the outer most layer of the suit during its garment manufacturing process. To maintain the integrity of your suit, aftermarket embroidery and adornments should never penetrate the inner protective layer(s) and any additions to the garment should not interfere with its intended use and/or the thermal protection properties.

Should you require specific sponsor branding and similar adornments added to your suit after purchase, patches conforming to the ISO 15025:2000 standard for protective clothing are highly recommended. To maintain the thermal protection rating and overall integrity of the suit, MasterCraft Safety and Impact recommend that patches and badges should be manufactured from fire retardant thread and material (such as Nomex® and should comply with the ISO standard 15025:2000. The patches and badges should also be affixed to the driving or crew suit using a fire retardant thread (such as Nomex® and the thread should only penetrate the outer most layer of the driving suit. Glues and other adhesives (including iron-on methods) are highly flammable and should not be used to affix the patches or badges. The backing material of badges and patches should be flame-retardant and in conformance with the original intended purpose of the suit. When affixing adornments, heat-bonding should not be use and the garment should not be cut or otherwise altered.

https://www.impactraceproducts.com/Articles.asp?ID=246

I have a new style 3 layer Hinchman suit. I would HIGHLY reccomend them! Very light and very comfortable! 

As far as the head and neck restraint is concerned, I have been seriously considering getting one for this season. I've been trying to find the one that is best situated for multiple and inverted impacts. I too have a lighter build and don't want something that puts alot of pressure on my collar bone. I am also quite tall with a longer neck. I see many of the WoO drivers and bigger names in this sport in the HYBRID system, the one that straps on around your body like a back-pack. HANS units are still very popular, but in my opinion, just don't look like they secure the shoulder belts well enough. I was highly interested in the old deFender and the later style NexGen units, but I don't think they are manufactured anymore. Has anyone seen or herd anything first hand on the newest style of the NexGen??

I would also benefit greatly from as much input on this subject as I can get!

http://www.racedaysafety.com/whhenere.html   here is a little reads on maybe trying to narrow down your selections, I strongly believe the Nexgen and DeFender are almost the same type desighn, im not 100% if it was a spinoff of the DeFender after production ceased, there is a few areas of differeance and maybe improvement,  the troubles i had with getting comfortable with mine was the sternum type area spreads your belts wide on your chest, it takes alittle while to get use to this, when wearing belts across your collar for years the belts feel like they arnt close enuff on your sternum, BUT, you arnt going anywhere, im a medium to small build in the shoulders-chest area, someone smaller than me might not like this at all, the shoulder belts slide mechanisum has to be alighned perfectly (while tight) it will take a few stabs at it to get them set in your sweet spot, if they are too high the metal slip lock mechanisum will ride up on the collar portion of the restraint, this is kinda bulky and uncomfortable like this, you will definely remidee the problem when you notice you dont like it,  the last thing I had trouble with was the "wings" of the device hold your shoulder straps in place the "wings" almost are too agressive for 3" belts a little finessing with a air file tamed them down a bit, the trouble was , when in panic and trying to get the hell outa the car a driver will toss his belts to one side and the other, the wings would not allow the belts to simply slide off the shoulder area,you would find yourself sitting back down in the seat almost like someone grabbed you by the shoulders and sat you back down, a distinct forward and twist motion has to be perfomed to get out with the device in place,  Im hoping the 2" belt will remidee this trouble a little more, otherwise im happy with it, it is quite comfortable on my collar bone area, the recent vid of Madsen in LV you can see his Hans is off scew with his shoulder harness, proubly one highlight  Nexgen and Defender have over the Hans, the Hybrid might solve this squareing ordeal with thier concept of harnessing around the chest also.. 91 I have a friend with similar build to yours he had to go with the tall Hans I belive,  due to the hieght of his neck ect, im not 100% certain the Hybrid doesnt have a taller version or options for tall build. I strongly believe the neck restraits have become just as important as your helmet,gloves,shoes,firesuit ect, you wouldnt even think of turning a lap without them, Old school drivers struggle to adapt to new things, that is quite common and expected i would proubly do the same,, If you make it part of your routine you will accept it easily. even the lightest helmet today can put a srain on your neck-spine, and upon impact  your vertibre can suffer harmfull, not reversable, life altering damage, your neck is the pathway to everything in your body, do yourself and your loved ones a favor and purchase one, there has been far too many Injury-fatalities lately , maybe it wont answer all the problems, but increasing your odds to walk away is the objective..

After researching over the weekend, I have narrowed my desicion down to either the Leatt MRX or Simposon Hybrid Pro Rage in composite. Unfortunately the Leatt MRX is on backorder till the end of April. Only concern with the Hybrid unit is, I have a slight hunch in my shoulders, and am wondering if that with cause any abnormal discomfort with the Hybrid. I have to get new saftey belts for this year as well, so my decision on the head and neck device will translate to which belts I get.

another item to keep in mind is where you commonly (comfortably ) wear your raceciever, I see alot of guys wear it tucked into thier suit, I havent sucessfully pulled this location off, I like the idea, just cant seem to find a good location for it, i attach mine to the headrest of my seat, still not convinced that is the best spot for it, the idea of the wires and reciever being with the driver is more accomidating, again ive ruined a couple ear sets just by jerking on them when I needed to exit the car. (i didnt care) check the avalibility or bulkyness of the unit to accomidate your reciever where you are in habit of wearing it.  just keep it in mind..

April isnt that far away, if that is the correct fit for you.  unfortunately you might be happier waiting for it if it is a little more taylord for your use.