Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

First off, allow me to say, I understand that these kids have talent and are good.  There are no doubts about that.

My issue comes from when there is a decision to be made between an 18-20 year old versus a 30-32 year old driving your car.  Everyone wants to choose the 18-20 year old and follow the youth movement.  Again, I know that these kids have talent and push the gas but hell, so does a seasoned 30, 35, 40 year old vet.  But the kids always seem to get the nod over the older guys - hell now 30 is old in racing.  Back in the day, 30 was the youth movement...ha

As someone who has worked my butt off and paid for my own equipment my entire life, it gets frustrating.  You get these kids who have never had to go through the things we have in order to make it to the next race, they haven't earned their stripes per se, but get treated as kings.  Why?  Someone please explain this to me in a way that I will understand because I haven't understood it yet.

It's similar to the female movement.  I'm not trying to bash women racers, they have the same rights to compete as we do but unfortunately, the majority (not all) of them get shoved straight to the top without earning their stripes either - while us "normal" guys put our blood, sweat, and tears into making it from week to week.

Again, I'm not bashing the kids, nor am I bashing female racers, I'm bashing those who ignore the rest of us that have "earned" our shot at the glory.  For any of you car owners that read this, please keep us in mind the next time you're looking for a driver.  We have several qualities 1. we do know how to go fast - in a smart way 2. we know what the expense of these machines are, we have to pay for them too 3. we've been around a while, we understand that winning today and then wadding up cars 2 weeks in a row will not achieve team goals and 4. see number 1.

That's all my griping for today, try not to bash me too hard for my opinion of the situation!

$$$$ - some of those "young drivers" have family $$$ or corporate $$ tehy can bring to a ride.

in today's world, car owners have no choice but to take the $$$ over the experience.

Heck,  if I owned a team and I had to choose between a guy that has won a few races, but can bring my team $30,000 in cash to start the season or a guy that is a multi-time track champion but has $0 to bring, hate to say it, I'm taking the $$$ becuase like it or not, there is a chance that they both could destroy a car the opening night.  That $30,000 means a lot more in the event of a crash than having a "track champion" behind the wheel of my car.

Every level of racing has this issue currently which is why you tend to see "dominance" by one team or driver at virtually all levels of motorsport.  That one guy that has talent and $$$ runs circles around everyone else that just has one or the other...

I think some of the push towards the younger drivers has to do with the attractiveness to sponsors/potential sponsors.

And trust me, it's not just that way in racing, it's the same bias we face in the business world!!

I think it has a lot to do with the quick meteoric rise of so many young stars. EVERYBODY wants that lottery chance that they had the next Jeff Gordon or Kyle Larson to drive for them .  Things arent like they were 30 yrs ago ,these nascar teams are looking hard for that next developement driver.  30 yrs ago the track champion got the ride cause he was a safe stable shoe. 

 There were exceptions back in the day and not only was Troy young, he was also a champ...Ruttman entered his family car in a roadster race at San Bernardino, California in 1945 at age 15, and won the race.^[2] We won 19 of the 21 events staged there that season.^[2] By 1947 he was the California Roadster Association (CRA) roadster champion.^[2] He also won his first five midget car races that season. In 1948 he repeated as the CRA roadster champion, United Racing Association Blue Circuit (Offy) championship, and 23 midget car events.^{[2]....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Ruttman}

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

In far too many cases, as far as I am concerned, it is marketing over talent.

Case in point...Danica.

I'm afraid Kyle Petty was right when he said she is a "marketing tool."

GODADDY has capitalized on her and it is paying handsomely for them!

Yes, she had limited succes in open wheel but she has not been able to experience that in the Cup series and I doubt she ever will.

I do believe we see some "young guns" getting a ride simply because of their last name.

It remains to be seen if they are capable of holding the ride all the way to the top series in which they are competing!

Long gone are the days where a guy could build him a car in his garage, go to the local track and be somewhat competitive.  It is all big dollars these days.....be you owner, driver or sponsor.

 
I LEARNED ESP FROM MY MOM

"PUT YOUR SWEATER ON: DON'T YOU THINK I KNOW WHEN 
YOU'RE COLD?"

"I do believe we see some "young guns" getting a ride simply because of their last name.'

Come on Leon that's nothing new and the list is long for second generation driver's who were not only good but exceptional racers. I'm thinking that with one of your hero's it was three!

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

You know, I too thought money had a lot to do with it until I witnessed a former track champion with sponsorship to back him still not chosen over the rookie with raw talent.  I agree, I think everyone is hoping they'll be the lottery winner and find the next Gordon or Larson and capitalize off his achievements.  I think the youth movement has more to do with what they can gain down the road if they were a stepping stone versus the accomplishments now.  Maybe I'm wrong....I don't know.

One other  thing that is different today than 30 plus year's ago is, kids start racing at age 4-5 years old. most of them understand what it takes to compete and have alot of wins under their belt at a young age, and they have hundred's' of races in the books by the time they are 17-18 years old. So they get sponsor's that stay with them hope that they will take them "to the next level"  JMO

My problem is parents putting 12-14 year old kids in full sized race cars like sprint cars, late models and midgets.   I do not understand how or why an insurance company would allow  it.  There are alot of classes of cars they could be racing like mini sprints, legend cars, go karts and so on.  We all know about Jeff Gordon, but he is one in 10 million.  In big time racing they want a cute young driver that can bring in sponsor dollars.  Please do not bring up Danica, if she finished 20-25 th she still was ahead of 18-23  other cars.  What happens when a young driver s parents lie about kids age and he gets hurt bad at a track.  I saw this when a driver was 16 yrs old in Iowa, but when he raced in Calif. they said he was 15 yrs old later in year.

Bigfish, it is true I have a couple of hero types in my life but I can assure you they are not racers!

 
I LEARNED ESP FROM MY MOM

"PUT YOUR SWEATER ON: DON'T YOU THINK I KNOW WHEN 
YOU'RE COLD?"

The Cedar Lake WISSOTA 360 drivers used to get kind of testy when a kid from Fargo used to come down and run his black #15.  There were a few snide remarks about not wrecking too many cars or daddy might run out of money.  I think you can guess who I'm talking about.  He just won another Knoxville Nationals title. 

Stan Meissner

You choose: a) Hair on fire 18 yr old, running the highside, win it or wear it attitude, crazy fans pulling for him, will win many races or tear it up. b) Old fart 30 something, happy to run second, only the "real" racers pulling for him to get it done one more time, willing to bring it home in once piece and finish second or third on a regular basis.

( money is no object, we'll just bolt one back together ). 

I have been talking about the new, young drivers and their "win it or wear it attitude" for a year now.  And it bothers me.  How many of these hot young drivers have worked to pay for the cars they are driving or had to bust their tails to fix and/or maintain them, or even put them together before the season in the first place.  About zero.  Hop on a plane, fly somewhere on someone else's dime, drive the car that someone else paid for, built, maintained, prepped, etc.  If it breaks, motor blows, car gets destroyed, etc, they don't care.  They just hop on a plane and fly home and leave the mess to someone else to take care of.  If that ride isn't ready for them to fly someplace to drive next weekend, they just get on the internet and ask for another ride.  I've only been racing 2 years now, but my pet peeve has been just this.  Drivers driving other people's stuff all the time that they have no vested interest in and treat it as such.  They are going to win more, because the driver who spent his own hard earned time and money to build, maintain, prep, etc his car and will have to spend more of his hard earned time and money to fix whatever gets broken is going to drve his car more conservatively and take less chances.  I think most people (that drive their own stuff) would rather finish, but not win, and get to race again the next night all season long than destroy their car and be done for the year trying to win one race. 

.  

I am in my 30's and I promise you, I could run with the best of them if given the opportunity. Put me in a car and tell me to win it or wear it, there are 5 more sitting back at the shop, and I will have the same results as the kids. Unfortunately, because I am in my 30's, I probably wont ever get that chance. As long as I am paying for my own equipment, I am happy running second. There are several of us "older/experienced" racers who could do as much (if not more) if someone would give us a shot and stop discriminating against our age. I guess thats the point I am trying to make.

Well shit!  When u put it like that!  I'll take my t-shirt of the kid with his hair on fire in a large please. 

Mmmm, thought you would say Vukovich.

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

Mmmm, thought you would say Vukovich.

As a young kid in Fresno during the 50's I do have some good memories of him that's for sure!

 
I LEARNED ESP FROM MY MOM

"PUT YOUR SWEATER ON: DON'T YOU THINK I KNOW WHEN 
YOU'RE COLD?"

 Two last names, Marlin and Waltrip could be added to that list. One a son and the other a brother. Michael ran 462 Winston Cup races without a win until he won at Daytona.... Sterling was a little better with 279 starts before a win and like Waltrip, it was at Daytona.

Half the lies they tell about me aren't true. 

that 15 wasnt from Fargo but he raced there weekly, and as far as snide remarks they were proubly fairly truthfull, the 15 wrecking was almost a sure bet and competitors being concerned is hard to keep humble ,  his daddy did the same in his career, in both thier defence these cars are like that, no accident is a small one, alot of stuff gets tore up, Dannys persistance to make his kid better was honed, "the Kid" eventually caught on, and he caught on big, he didnt have other resposibilities we all do , his job was to become a racer, he stuck with it, 99% of us on here will never have that oppertunity, it takes big money,big people , and big sacrafices ,BUT you have to have the golden oppertunity of $Money$ ..   this sport can be zero to hero or hero to zero. its sad but true, dont dawg on the competitors in that specific time,  they were just calling it as they see it . quite honestly,   alot of them proubly could have done the same.  I think if you ever talk to Danny and Donny about what it takes to get to the top  you would be surprized what they know ..   I respect that .