Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
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My son had the opportunity to be part of the color guard during the MonsterJam event this past weekend @ Knoxville. 

After attending it got me to thinking about how Sprint Car Racing (and all short track racing for that matter) can attract all these families that showed up in DROVES to attend this (the line to GET INTO THE STANDS stretched from the main gate to the highway and from the main gate to around turns 3 and 4 at one point in the evening) and there were still people buying tickets at the ticket office @ 7:50 (the show started at 7:30 and only lasts 2 hours)).

Friday was estimated at 4500 and Saturday as estimated to be over 10,000 (I heard numerous reports that Saturday outsold ALL events for the season with the exception of the 4 days of Nationals including the 360 Nationals Finale and next weeks Late Model Nationals).

Is it the advertising? 

Is the fact that the show starts @ 7:30 and ENDS at 9:30 (on the dot I might add, not one minute earlier or later) - they have a schedule and that's exactly when things happen.

Is it the family friendly atmosphere that they promote (all kids tickets were $7) but their souvenirs were $15 for a snow cone in a Grave Digger cup and $15 for cotton candy with a styrofoam Grave Digger hat, other souvenirs costs between $5 and $30 and I think EVERY KID had something in their hand by the end of the night.

Is it the atmosphere (with that many people there, you felt like you were at a rock concert as the stands were abuzz (although a majority of that buzz was from ages 12 and under).

Whatever "it" is, short track racing needs to learn from it and PACK the stands as my own observation was that there was "maybe" 25-30 minutes of actual action during that entire 2 hours, yet some people paid $27 (reserved seating) to get in while the cheapest adult tickets were $10 - if you bought in advance and had a $5 discount coupon otherwise they were $15 in Advance and $17 at the gate (a Family of 4 spent a MINIMUM of $34 to get in as EVERYONE required a ticket unless they were under 2 years old).  A family of 4 to get into the races costs $38 (using 12 and under as kids which is how MonsterJam priced their tickets as well. 

It doesn't appear that cost to get in is the issue (like many believe), maybe it's the entertainment value - maybe short track racing doesn't provide enough "entertainment" for these families (and by that I mean, the formats are too confusing, the racing takes too long to line up (kids have a short attention span - most events the Monster Trucks ran lasted 90 seconds or less), or the announcing doesn't get people excited even when nothing is going on (MonsterJam did a GREAT JOB of keeping kids engaged even when nothing was going on).  The drivers of the trucks came up INTO the stands after each "event" was completed and gave out a T-shirt and even gave a trophy to a kid.

While my son wasn't overly impressed (he still likes the races better), it was obvious that he was outnumbered by a long shot....

I'm not saying weekly dirt track racing doesn't need to make some changes.  We all know it does.  But you can't really compare weekly racing with a once a year event.  I highly doubt the same 10,000+ people would show up every week to watch monster trucks run for few seconds at a time.  You might compare this event to the Nationals and you've said it didn't sell that many tickets.  The WoO doesn't have much trouble drawing a big crowd most places they go.  But I doubt a lot of people would pay that much to see them every week.  Drawing lots of people to the same weekly event consistently is much tougher than a once in a while big event.  jmo..

I sat by a group (Family of 7-- 2 adults and 5 kids) that told me they travel 100's of miles to attend EVERY MonsterJam they can get to (said they can hit around 20+ per year since they hit arenas and stadiums during the winter).  Said they've tried other things but nothing else ENGANGES their kids like the group that puts the MonsterJam shows on does --drivers are accessible DURING the event as they come into the stands.

It was pretty obvious from the people wearing T-shirts that this is not a "once a year" activity for a majority of them. 

I'm just saying that short track racing could learn a few things from how they "market" their event to kids and families (because like it or not, the % of kids in the stands at racetracks is diminishing and without kids, there aren't new fans to replace those that are no longer phsically able to attend, or die off, or get all pi$$ed about some new rule and don't come back).

i think monster jam attendance can be related to most current peoples brain function.

it is easy to watch, easy to understand and over quick

crash crap. appears only rule is time, no thought process, lots of noise and hype, they think they seeing a superstar (most do not realize how many bigfoots and grave diggers there are) , simalar to WWE.

Theres more than one grave digger?

exactly my point, easy to watch, easy to understand....

I won't debate the brain function either, although the entire show had a target age of 8-12 years old (and anyone with kids knows that you do what your kids like - if they like soccer, you put them in soccer and go to their games (even if you can't stand watching soccer and don't understand it).

I still think it comes back to using some of the things that MonsterJam is doing to lure those same families to the races (any races) and cultivating a new crop of race fans for the future.

Can anybody tell me what a monster truck show pays?? or how they decide who wins? is it a fan vote?

i agree it's better comparing it to a WoO show at most tracks and the nationals at knoxville. like the family you sat next to i travel to as many WoO shows as possible around my area and even a couple big late model shows, instead of attending a track weekly. More and more people are waiting for the big shows like ASCS, WoO, All-Stars, IRA etc. to spend thier money vs. going to weekly shows and i dont think there is anything tracks can do to change that.

If you have a three or four year old, Monster Jam is “the sh*t”.  TV plays a big part in it.  Our son got hooked when we stumbled upon a Monster Jam episode on Speed last year.  We DVR’ed each new show and he watches them over and over.  Loves it.  Within weeks he knew every truck and driver’s name.  Before we know it we’re searching Wal-Mart for the toy versions of his favorites.  Next thing you know, I’m buying to tickets to a live event.  I took my family to two Monster Jam shows this past January.  We had to travel two hours to each show.  And we'd definitely go to more if we could.  Mom even got hooked.  Hook the kids and the parents follow.   And yes, I’ve also taken my son to the sprint car races.  It just doesn’t keep his attention like a Monster Jam show does.  The last time we went to the sprint car races he told me he’d “rather go bowling”.

Most of the trucks that are at a monster jam show are owned by the company that owns Monster Jam including Grave Digger, and Max D. I don't think they get paid per finish as much as the promoters hire them to put on a show. The better a driver or truck does, the more likely they will get booked to go to another show.

As it relates to short track racing, I think a comparison of this to WoO, ASCS, USAC, Nationals is better than a weekly show. Most people that attend a weekly show usually drive from a closer distance than those who go to a bigger show. I live about 2 hours from Attica and Fremont and I have gone to most of the All Star races and WoO races that they have had as opposed to the weekly shows. I have gone to a few weekly shows but not many as by the time I get home it would be past mid night with traffic. I think the bigger question might be what can some of the bigger sanctioning bodies do to attact more fans. Its all about branding, and as a brand the WoO, ASCS, USAC is not as strong as Feld Entertainment (Monster Jam). Some of it is the internal problems that each of them have and the politics associated with all of them.

I've stated it before and I'll state it again.  It's not about anything other than how do short tracks get these fans to attend an event at the racetrack for the races (obviously MonsterJam has figured out how to get the young kids to attend, dirt track racing has not).

Comparing a WoO show to a standard weekly event does NOTHING to help you grow the fanbase of sprint car (or short track) racing.  You have the same fans attending the events in that case.  It's how do you get those fans that will attend a MonsterJam event to come to a Sprint Car race (or late models or modifieds).  Whatever MonsterJam is doing obviously works....whatever WoO, USAC, AllStars, etc. is doing obviously doesn't work (as evidenced by the # of kids in attendance at most shows (kids should OUTNUMBER adults 2 to 1 if we expect racing to survive (not grow, not thrive, to SURVIVE)....

Everything that went on during the Monster Jam show was geared toward the kids. Everything. They damn near sold out

the entire frontstretch. By far the best crowd Knoxville has had with the exception of Nationals. They spent little time

plugging their sponsors and were constantly giving out prizes/trophy's and grave digger gave out his flag. Other than

the fifteen minute break to re arrange cars there was something going on at all times. The coolest thing they did was

having all branches of the military stand up before the national anthem. They need to start doing that at Nationals and

other holiday weekends. Oh, and that quad race had to of been fixed. no doubt about it.

-Austin Rankin

Powri midgets have all current n former military members stand before races. I always enjoy this part of the show. 

Hey Vande, can't argue with too many of your points.  I think there is some validity to the fact that this was a special, one-time event.  Or, a once a year event.  Not the case for all, but probably for the most part. 

That being said, I feel there is a great deal of complaining about the cost of admission to a lot of the bigger dirt track racing events.  Me personally, I would rather pay twice as much if it keeps the talent level up at the event and keeps the purse high.  But many think they should get to pay the same amount (or less) for the same show for 20 years and then complain because it hasn't improved.  Give you an example--we had one of the greatest county fair tractor pulls anywhere just 10 years ago--very big purse.  Attracted tractor, trucks and semis from 1000 miles away.  It was always a free admission if you paid the gate admission at the fair.  Then, about 10 years ago, they started charging $5 and $10 for the afternoon and evening shows.  5 and 10 whole dollars.  The show completely tanked.  You once had to get there an hour early to get a seat.  Now, stands only 1/2 full.  Sad. 

I truly believe that there are a lot of people that will not go to races because they "used to get in for $2.00" and now its $25.  Or, a WOO show is $40 or whatever.  Sadly, a vast majority of these complainer that I know--they could buy the damned racetrack or fairgrounds!  Sure, there are some truly cash strapped people.  But many that I know just won't give their money to someone else. 

Long story short--I think the only way to "pack the Place" anymore is to almost give away tickets.  But that really won't be beneficial to the racing world, will it?  

Don't know the answer Vande.

what do most tracks charge for kids tickets? maybe tracks need to do package deals like most baseball stadiums do. 4 tickets 4 hot dogs and 4 drinks $30 don't just make it 2 adult 2 kids tickets widen it up. figure you get 4 adults to a race your going to up sell later in the night. or if a parent wants to bring is kid and a couple of his kids friends. later in the night the kids may want another hot dog or drink and the dad may have a beer or 2. the main thing is people want to get home kids have a short attention span. promoters are ruining the program by back-gate promoting have 6 classes of cars just drags out the night and makes it less exciting for the kids. at least do something during the breaks w/e happen to the candy toss or throwing out frisbies?

your post Is 90% true.  with that being said the intrest is without a doubt in the Monster truck favor, these trucks are displayed almost primetime on TV, Kids love them, its a kids intrest. I grew up when the Monster truck phase was just starting, I always had intrest, why not , thier loud, thier big, they run on methanol, whats not to like, I have a five yr old nephew I attend truck shows with all the time when they come to our nearby venues, our venues attract the less popular and less costly trucks, we drive 8hrs to Minneapolis to catch the Monsterjam show once a year, A childs intrest is more aimed to this type of motorsport, its very difficult to compair sprint racing to monster truck shows, the childrens attendence is WAY more as compaired to the Nationals ect. Adults like racing, kids like crashn stuff. and that is ok, Maybe they will grow up to be sprintcar enthousiests,competitors,crew, ect?  I try keep him revved up about motorsports because there is hundreds of other harmfull avenues to pursue as a youngster, I Race a 410 on a shoestring budget, I honestly looked into the possibilities of promoting ,driving,a monstertruck as a buisness, on any giving night a monstertruck driver is treated well by fans, your never in altercations with fellow drivers, or feeling less than par on a tuff night, the operating costs are proubly similar, repairs to the truck have to be very expensive, BUT, Many Many t-shirts are sold to offset that cost im assuming. all the truck shows we have attended drivers have always been respectfull and within arms reach, they understand its the fans that keep them doing what they love to do.. sure it has to be a job behind the curtains, but, everybody has thier options to thier future.  We attend Speedweeks in FL. mainly to take in the kickoff of the Winged sprints 410-360 ect, We took in a Monsterjam show in Orlando a couple years ago, it was sold out, people still tryingto get tickets just minutes before the show, simply to be turned around at the box offices, 70,000 people were in attendance, I have NEVER been to a event that large, the intrest in Monster trucks to the plublic is just mind boggeling. Congratz to Knoxville for the Booking, its a great venue to handel such shows.. let the Kids watch the bigwheels parents join them,get energetic about it, creep thier intrest into sprint cars and we may infiltrate thier minds with open wheel cars..

Excellent point. Burlington packs the house when they have $5.00 nights. Very little empty space in the stands on those nights. Same thing with Grundy County in Morris IL. Bring the prices down and people will come. That of course does very little for the purse or the operators costs, but it is the truth. Maybe the problem with local shows is that the show gets to be boring. People are not as rapidly attracted to short track racing with all of the options that are out there to spend their money on. That and of course the economy is bad. I am not saying that I want the prices lowered, I am just acknowleging the truth in egras's post..................

Never hit stationary objects!

I completely agree with your assessment of the back-gate promoting. It has gotten to a point where I won't bother going to a local show any longer if my car is not running in it. I have no interest in sitting through 5 classes of cars that I could care less about to see one class of cars that I paid to watch race. 

Never hit stationary objects!

I've said for years that anyone under the legal age to drive themselves to the track should be considered a kid and get in for free to weekly shows.    The tracks will get their money at the concession/souvenir stands and you'll get new fans hooked for life.

I've also been of the opinion that back gate promoting is killing of the sprint car fanbase at a steady pace.     The kids that come to the races either fall asleep or go home before the 4-5 support classes get done banging doors and cutting tires and thus never actually see the sprints A-main.    

Any and all support classes need short time limits and they need to be strictly enforced.       The time limit should not exceed two times the length of time needed to run the desinated number of laps in a green to checkered race.    The racers will clean it up themselves if they only get a couple green flag laps/feature due to time running out.

Heck the time limits could be like video games, have check points.    The leader needs to complete x number of laps before so much time or the race is over.   Kids love video games.

One of the problems is the fact that MOST people can go to a local dirt track show 3 nights a week.  People who love dirt track racing do that all the time.  It wears on a wallet rather quickly if you're taking the whole family.  The WoO is our premier sanctioning body that "could potentially" bring in super huge crowds all season, but they run too many races.  They race in 25 states and Canada.  A total of 83 scheduled shows this season!   83?  NASCAR has 36!  If you give people the chance to see them race that often they're going to skip this one or that one.  Imagine if California didn't have 12 shows scheduled on the season.  If they only had 3, I guarantee them tracks would be way more packed with only a few times for fans to be able to see them.  Same goes for Iowa, Ohio, and PA. If Eldora, Knoxville, Williams Grove and Chico only had 1 big WoO race a year for Huge money...the places would be super packed.  Not everyone is going to pay $100 to get in 3 or 4 times a year.  They would pay that for one show though!   That's my $.02!

do it in the dirt

I agree, I'll give another example just up the road from Knoxville.

Iowa Speedway had 1 truck race and 1 Nationwide race 3-4 years ago, sold 58,000 tickets for the Nationwide race and 27,000 or more for the truck race.  Then they got greedy and added a 2nd Nationwide race and a 2nd Truck race.

What happened, they gave the fans CHOICES to attend and made the "the weather is iffy, we'll go the next time" crowd a reason NOT to attend.  When the 2nd race comes around, it became "well, we could do that, or go to Knoxville, or the State Fair, let's see how the weather is and decide that weekend".

This year their crowds were less than 25,000 at BOTH Nationwide races (less fans than when you had 1 race and TWICE the purse $$$ and operating costs), and less than 12,000 COMBINED for the Truck races (less than 1/2 the fans and TWICE the Purse and operating $$$$.