Forum: HoseHeads Sprint Car General Forum (go)
Moderators: dirtonly  /  dmantx  /  hosehead

There was always a divide when Ted Johnson owned and ran the Outlaws as well (difference was that Ted was first and foremost a FAN, he knew the drivers and teams, even if they didn't like his decisions, he could give them the point of view of a fan).

My hope is that the big tracks get together (Knoxville, Eldora, Williams Grove, Chico) and pull all sanctioning off the biggest paying shows of the year.  That will change the dynamics as the team owners may be the ones that put the WoO out of business.

As it stands, all I see the WRG doing is collecting $$$ from sanction fees, they do ZERO to promote their races or racers (especially when they come to Knoxville - the track is responsible for everything, WRG expects that they can open the gate and 5000 people will show up -- this year they were lucky if 1500 were in attendance at either show). 

If the WRG took their sanction fees ($20,000 per night) and used even a 1/4 of it for advertising each event, getting radio spots on local sports radio stations for drivers to be interviewed, TV commercials, etc., they would help BOOST attendance at EVERY event (they only ever spent $$ to promote the World Finals IMO (and I wouldn't be surprised if that event goes away if there is no TV within 2 years).  As it stands, they put no $$$ into any event not held @ Lernerville (they own it), Volusia in February (again, they own the track), or Charlotte (they gotta keep Bruton Smith happy or he'll run them out of town like they did Ted Johnson), they just take it out of the event and put it into salaries for their executive group.

It amazes me that tracks that are successful on a weekly basis even bother bringing in the World of Outlaws anymore, they take ALL the risk of the high purse, sanction fee, etc. and if the weather is iffy, take all the brundt of pi$$ed off fans if they cancel and take a loss at the gate if they don't.

screw the woo

Ascot was the greatest of all time..

West Capital wasn't half bad either..

Life is good...

Haven't we been down this road before with the former USA Sprint Car Series and the National Sprint Tour, which started out with disgruntled drivers and team owners?

Yet, the stands are packed wherever they go.

Yep, been down the road too many times....

The only way there will be any real change is if the track operators do something (like stop sanctioning shows).

From a fan standpoint, I agree with Donny.  Why wouldn't they ask the competitors for their opinions/ideas to make the cars looser and harder to drive instead of just doing what they "think" will work even though none of them have ever driven a sprint car (outside of Brian Carter who really only drove a 305 or 360 and was never competitive).

As far as Tom Deery not knowing the guys following the series' names, that is a HUGE issue in my mind.  I work at a company with nearly 10,000 employees and the CEO (the current and former one) both knew me on a first name basis and I am a nobody.  For Deery not to know the guys (and there are only 12 and maybe 50 if you count all the crew members) is just stupid on his part.  Interaction with your employees (or in this case your independent contractors) is key to running any successful business...

I've been to 8 WoO races this year, 3 had enormous crowds (Elko, New Egypt and Eldora Kings Royal), 3 had good crowds (Knight Before the Kings Royal, Williams Grove and Lernerville) that certainly more than paid the bills, and 2 had bad crowds where the bills didn't get paid (Knoxville and Orange County).

Knoxville has had trouble with their non-Nationals crowd for some time and charging an extra $5 admission didn't help, and Orange County is a dump and the race was run on a Monday.

Bottom line is, the WoO still draws a ton of fans in most areas, so they must be doing something right.

As to the big race events taking WoO sanction away, the only tracks that can get away with that is Knoxville and Eldora. Chico is a mismanaged dump, and the Grove aren't giving up the WoO versus Posse rivalry that packs the stands all the 4 or 5 times a year.

I agree with you Vande, but on the flip side, probably a few minutes before the press conference, Donny got his check for 15 grand too, which is a very nice payday for a night's work.  He's making a pretty decent living off of the Outlaws, and I'll bet Tony Stewart and Kasey Kahne have got the WRG's ear when needed.

Anybody who was there at the Silver Cup, is the article right - did Steve Kinser choose to sit-out the second feature?

He did it last year the same thing; take the green and pull in !

Long Live  20 Time  World Of Outlaws Champion Steve 
Kinser #11 

Well World Racing Group is a business and just like any other business, their goal is to make money. We can sit in the stands and get irritated at them for not "giving it back", but they can do whatever they want with what they earned.

Steve did pull in after a lap. Figured that was going to happen. This format has lost its luster. It gets too late, and the winner gets paid $20,000 less. That is a big gripe of the drivers. Things cost more or the same, and purses are going down. Just look at the one-day show at Lincoln. The winner got $6,000. As for Tony Stewart and Kasey Kahne having the WRG's ear, I wouldn't bet on it. I think the WRG gives in some areas, but very few. We will have to see if, what I think is a fractured relationship between drivers and officials, can be repaired in time. It's not going to happen overnight.

I'm kinda with you on this one.  Reading Donny's comments about WOO only doing what the spectator wants?  That's the point, isn't it?  They are in the business to fill stands with people.  They are doing that at more venues than not.   That would be the sign of a successful business.  I've been to two events so far this year--packed.  Great car counts.  Great racing.  The track made money, the fans got their money's worth.  If Donny don't like--Donny don't have to do.  Go get a job staring at 4 walls then like the rest of us have to do.  His fat ass jumped back in the car for the second feature, didn't it? 

Regardless of what anyone thinks, they are now and always have been the "premiere" sanctioning body in sprint racing. They pay the best purse, have the best drivers, race at the best tracks, and pay a great points fund. I don't see them going away anytime soon and thats a good thing. Long live the WoO!

Yet, the stands are packed wherever they go.

This is not actually true.  You might want to check with some of the places they have raced...as mentioned above.  I no longer attend as many WoO events as in the past and it is because of the cost for a ticket.  Out here you can't get in for less than $40 and I just don't think they are worth that price.  For less than half I can see some outstanding sprint car drivers such as Allard, Meyers, Tarlton, Murphy, Abreu, all three Kaedings, Hirst, Becker and Mr. Excitement Andy Forsberg plus many more!

Also, as to the National Sprint Tour, I think if Mr. Brownfield had not lost his life they would be the most viable sprint touring group out there today.  Just my opinion.

 
I LEARNED ESP FROM MY MOM

"PUT YOUR SWEATER ON: DON'T YOU THINK I KNOW WHEN 
YOU'RE COLD?"

as a fan, I like to pay extra money to see extra drivers and a competitive event...and could give a rats ass if WoO-dee-frickin-hoo has received 5 figures to attach their three letter name too it.

given the state of other top heavy institutions in this country, I am shocked the organization is not out of business based on the public financial statements before they went "private".

monopolies have never served this country well in the past...

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

The $6,000 wasn't Lincoln's choice, that is a standard WoO payout for a Wednesday show (This case Thursday because of the rain)

Most have at least a decent crowd here in the MidWest, OH, PA region. I have never been to any Calyfornya races so I don't know about out there. I have been to 6 Outlaw races out here, and they all had full grandstands. You could be correct about the NST, but that we will never know. As for price of a ticket, I personally don't mind paying 25 -35 bucks a few times a year to see the Kinsers, Swindell, Pittman, Schatz, Dollansky, ect...... go at it!

when it comes right down too it...when Kinser and Sammy hang it up, the pricing structure of the org is in for a huge awakening...because all tracks will have to do is advertise a purse and see who shows up.

particularly if the remaining drivers are still disgruntled with the operation.

Lincoln 1845 ft/.35 mile T1=118MPH 
Eldora 2287 ft/.43mile T3=135MPH
Port 2716 ft/.51 mile T3=TBD
Grove 2792 ft/.53 mile T3=135MPH
Selinsgrove 2847 ft/.54 mile T1=136MPH
"I didn't move to PA from El Paso in search of better 
weather." Van May

Just because $6000 to win is "standard" for mid-week shows precisely is what makes it LINCOLN's Choice.  They could have paid the $10,000 to win purse but they chose not to (doesn't matter which day of the week it is).  To book a Friday, Saturday or Sunday show you MUST pay $10,000 to win- you get an option to pay less by holding a mid-week show.

I still don't get the Silver Cup myself, Wolfgang's book has a picture of him winning more $$ at that race than Schatz and Pittman took home combined from there Tuesday....

But, again, WRG now owns Lernerville.  I bet if Don Martin was still alive it'd be paying close to $50,000 to win now...

A couple things to remember. As the WRG and drivers should care abut the fans -- the main priority -- no one is asking the fans what they want. So, it isn't like the WRG took a poll and that is why the Silver Cup changed. I'm quite sure fans would love to see a driver win $35,000. Plus, not be there until 1 am. And no, the rain delay isn't why it was that late. Heats started at 9:06. That being said, I'm not siding with the drivers. Inmates can't run the asylum. I just believe it should be a collective effort for the betterment of the sport.